DVC Resale Contract Advice Needed

[tnicks]

My agent told me I was getting a "steal" and basically at $141 pp since Seller is covering closing. This also is not true?

Check out dvcstats.com where data was mined from the ROFR thread. It's showing just the past few months, but it gives you a general feel for where people have been. Fidelity often has good deals as well in comparison to other brokers, if you're that against the current contract.

 

[Bing Showei]

I do have someone who will review at no cost but perhaps you are right and I should step back from this and research a bit more. None of that is going to change the fact that I just don't like the contract. Perhaps I am better served paying to buy directly from Disney.

That is absolutely your prerogative, Disney will also finance you right away on the spot. They'll even give you a backpack with their logo on it... oh, and they'll charge you $235/point. But if that is the price for your peace of mind, its' money much better spent than signing something you don't like with someone you don't trust.

 

[Matty B13]

There are the current prices for contracts that passed ROFR:

PVB:

JMBM---$147-$31487-200-PVB-Oct-28/17, 200/18, 200/19, 200/20- sent 6/12, passed 7/2

espov---$152-$7957-50-PVB-Jun-0/18, 123/19, 0/20, 50/21-seller pay MF19- sent 6/11, passed 7/2

hichicha---$141.25-$24432-160-PVB-Jun-0/18, 289/19, 160/20, 160/21- sent 6/17, passed 7/3

badeacon---$130-$26744-200-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 0/20, 7/21- sent 6/8, passed 7/8

DBFire---$148-$31747-200-PVB-Dec-0/17, 0/18, 364/19, 200/20- sent 6/13, passed 7/9

NateUT---$153-$15835-100-PVB-Dec-0/17, 0/18, 0/19, 100/20- sent 7/9, passed 7/19

Katie2---$135-$14174-100-PVB-Aug-0/18, 0/19, 100/20- sent 7/1, passed 7/27

Tony McQ---$130-$13674-100-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 100/20, 100/21-Closing 01/05/20- sent 7/11, passed 7/26

Doberge---$145-$15679-100-PVB-Mar-0/18, 71/19, 100/20, 100/21-Seller pays closing- sent 7/8, passed 8/5

jjk0125---$145-$26107-175-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 130/20, 175/21- sent 8/7, passed 8/27

Doublea---$145-$22916-150-PVB-Mar-0/18, 96/19, 173/20, 150/21-Seller pays MF '19'- sent 8/14, passed 9/3

BuzzyBelle---$137-$28105-200-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 266/20, 200/21- sent 8/21, passed 9/6

Derian---$141-$28935-200-PVB-Dec-0/18, 234/19, 200/20-Seller paying '19 MF- sent 8/26, passed 9/10

TonyaG83---$142-$15526-100-PVB-Oct-75/18, 200/19, 100/20, 100/21- sent 8/21, passed 9/11

Yinn---$128-$26500-206-PVB-June-0/18, 21/19, 206/20, 206/21-Guaranteed Week 52- sent 9/6, passed 9/25

CydniErin88---$143.3-$21769-150-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 130/20- sent 9/6, passed 9/25

 

[kcall13]

Understood Matty but if someone couldn't complete the purchase due to a funding issue not due to their fault, you would still have wasted the 2-3 months. As a buyer why are you agreeing to fork over half of the deposit to the agent? I think that is crazy because should a deal go south they get paid and get to relist it again. Most agents don't get paid until they close your deal.

 

[kcall13]

There are the current prices for contracts that passed ROFR:

PVB:

JMBM---$147-$31487-200-PVB-Oct-28/17, 200/18, 200/19, 200/20- sent 6/12, passed 7/2

espov---$152-$7957-50-PVB-Jun-0/18, 123/19, 0/20, 50/21-seller pay MF19- sent 6/11, passed 7/2

hichicha---$141.25-$24432-160-PVB-Jun-0/18, 289/19, 160/20, 160/21- sent 6/17, passed 7/3

badeacon---$130-$26744-200-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 0/20, 7/21- sent 6/8, passed 7/8

DBFire---$148-$31747-200-PVB-Dec-0/17, 0/18, 364/19, 200/20- sent 6/13, passed 7/9

NateUT---$153-$15835-100-PVB-Dec-0/17, 0/18, 0/19, 100/20- sent 7/9, passed 7/19

Katie2---$135-$14174-100-PVB-Aug-0/18, 0/19, 100/20- sent 7/1, passed 7/27

Tony McQ---$130-$13674-100-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 100/20, 100/21-Closing 01/05/20- sent 7/11, passed 7/26

Doberge---$145-$15679-100-PVB-Mar-0/18, 71/19, 100/20, 100/21-Seller pays closing- sent 7/8, passed 8/5

jjk0125---$145-$26107-175-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 130/20, 175/21- sent 8/7, passed 8/27

Doublea---$145-$22916-150-PVB-Mar-0/18, 96/19, 173/20, 150/21-Seller pays MF '19'- sent 8/14, passed 9/3

BuzzyBelle---$137-$28105-200-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 266/20, 200/21- sent 8/21, passed 9/6

Derian---$141-$28935-200-PVB-Dec-0/18, 234/19, 200/20-Seller paying '19 MF- sent 8/26, passed 9/10

TonyaG83---$142-$15526-100-PVB-Oct-75/18, 200/19, 100/20, 100/21- sent 8/21, passed 9/11

Yinn---$128-$26500-206-PVB-June-0/18, 21/19, 206/20, 206/21-Guaranteed Week 52- sent 9/6, passed 9/25

CydniErin88---$143.3-$21769-150-PVB-Feb-0/18, 0/19, 130/20- sent 9/6, passed 9/25

Wow 128 is a good deal. Based on this I am getting a fair price. Thanks for this info!

 

[Matty B13]

Understood Matty but if someone couldn't complete the purchase due to a funding issue not due to their fault, you would still have wasted the 2-3 months. As a buyer why are you agreeing to fork over half of the deposit to the agent? I think that is crazy because should a deal go south they get paid and get to relist it again. Most agents don't get paid until they close your deal.

That is the contract that the seller signs with the Broker to sell. I'm sure a closing date could be modified to add sometime to secure new financing if need be, but at that point chances are the buyer would still have problem with financing and won't have any luck with another financial institution.

Time is money for these Brokers and prices are always changing, mostly increasing lately, but if a recession or slow down hits a contract worth $145 today, could be worth $100 tomorrow.

 

[Matty B13]

Wow 128 is a good deal. Based on this I am getting a fair price. Thanks for this info!

Check out the ROFR thread, that gives the best info here on Disboards. I also think you need to do a lot more research, especially on UY and booking windows, along with general information about DVC resorts. Take your time to make sure you are buying "Where You Want To Stay", this is an expensive purchase. The Poly is a great Resort, but the DVC side only has Bungalows and Studios, so if your planning on having kids in the future, a studio might not be big enough for your expanding family.

The Broker your working with has probably bought and sold thousands of contacts, with very few reports of bad issues here on Disboards, but you have to be comfortable with the whole process.

 

[kcall13]

You guys are awesome sharing all this insight thanks so much! Sounds like I should wait for the pending recession to buy more points haha! Provided my deal passes disney and closes I am saving about $5000 for my wedding reservations and getting Poly DVC at $141 pp so all in all a win imho. I'm a little sad that I won't be a card carrying DVC member tho -- perhaps I should later buy some direct points to get that status? I won't use/buy annual passes however and generally get the meal plan when I go so it doesn't seem like I am missing out much there. Also, I prefer to stay close to the parks and the newer resorts are kind of way out so not of particular interest.

 

[kcall13]

Check out the ROFR thread, that gives the best info here on Disboards. I also think you need to do a lot more research, especially on UY and booking windows, along with general information about DVC resorts. Take your time to make sure you are buying "Where You Want To Stay", this is an expensive purchase. The Poly is a great Resort, but the DVC side only has Bungalows and Studios, so if your planning on having kids in the future, a studio might not be big enough for your expanding family.

The Broker your working with has probably bought and sold thousands of contacts, with very few reports of bad issues here on Disboards, but you have to be comfortable with the whole process.

Thanks Matty! I have ZERO idea how booking works but I did buy enough to cover 2 studios in case i want to bring someone and could of course add more. I am a Mom mom of only 1 and mom of 3 so I did kind of plan for my kids expanding family wise. All of us in one unit doesn't sound relaxing in the least so thumbs up on the Studio!

 

[Bing Showei]

Thanks Matty! I have ZERO idea how booking works but... [snip]

 

[Matty B13]

Thanks Matty! I have ZERO idea how booking works but I did buy enough to cover 2 studios in case i want to bring someone and could of course add more. I am a Mom mom of only 1 and mom of 3 so I did kind of plan for my kids expanding family wise. All of us in one unit doesn't sound relaxing in the least so thumbs up on the Studio!

If that is the case then you may want to look at Resorts with 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom, the Poly Studios are nice, but don't have a full kitchen like the 1 & 2 bedroom units have.

 

[CraigInPA]

The broker getting half the escrow and the seller getting half the escrow in the event the buyer refuses or is unable to complete the sale is very common in real estate agreements.

My wife, an attorney, reviewed a recent sales listing agreement where the broker would get the full commission from the seller where a "buyer" signed an agreement of sale at full asking price, even if no agreement of sale resulted. It invited an unscrupulous broker to have friends and family make full price offers (with no escrow payment at signing) with no intention of completing the sale. The broker balked at having to change the contract, saying "it never happens" and "we would never do that to a seller", but my wife was firm that if the possibility existed, there would be no agreement. My wife also capped the split of escrow to the Broker at $1000, on the basis that the Broker brought the buyer, and has a shared responsibility with the buyer for anything that went wrong that prevented the sale from completing. It took two days, but the broker agreed to changes to their "standard" listing agreement.

 

[kcall13]

The broker getting half the escrow and the seller getting half the escrow in the event the buyer refuses or is unable to complete the sale is very common in real estate agreements.

My wife, an attorney, reviewed a recent sales listing agreement where the broker would get the full commission from the seller where a "buyer" signed an agreement of sale at full asking price, even if no agreement of sale resulted. It invited an unscrupulous broker to have friends and family make full price offers (with no escrow payment at signing) with no intention of completing the sale. The broker balked at having to change the contract, saying "it never happens" and "we would never do that to a seller", but my wife was firm that if the possibility existed, there would be no agreement. My wife also capped the split of escrow to the Broker at $1000, on the basis that the Broker brought the buyer, and has a shared responsibility with the buyer for anything that went wrong that prevented the sale from completing. It took two days, but the broker agreed to changes to their "standard" listing agreement.

This is exactly what I was thinking -- contract is designed to encourage unscrupulous deals. I am not suggesting my agent is that but I am old enough to know better than to trust a stranger

 

[luvdisneyland]

If the sale is subject to funding approval of should say so. I don't think you'd bring unreasonable and I've stated my opinion about the broker recently elsewhere, so I'm not too shocked by this story. I think you need to weigh how good the deal is vs how confident you are in your ability to secure funding. I remember working with dvcsales and they modified the contract until I was happy with the wording.

Monera has guaranteed financing, so obtaining a loan is not an issue. Sounds like the buyer is wanting the broker to change their contract for them, it also sounds like a red flag that the buyer is looking for an out, because they will get financing if they go with Monera, thus, there is no reason to ask the brokerage to make the change.

 

[luvdisneyland]

What a ridiculous comment -- for the same reason people take auto loans and home loans when they don't have the funds up front. That said I will have the funds in a short amount of time but I need to close on my deal by December because I need to be able to book at 11-months to get my reservation -- for my wedding!

I am new to DVC and I asked for them to list all of the resorts I can use and one other minor change but backed off when he gave me an issue now I just want the funding contingency. I have been told the lawyer don't allow any changes and not to worry about the legal mumbo jumbo. I really really don't want to lose my deal -- again Wedding reservation needed but I am extremely skeptical that agent has been honest about there never being funding issues yet unwilling to change the funding contingency terms. Certainly don't want to talk to him on the phone at least I have a written record of this situation should I need it.

Agent:

"First and foremost, if you feel there was a misunderstanding in my written communications, I do apologize. I never intended to provide you advice that could be construed as legal.

Receiving a copy of the contract to secure financing is part of the Monera process. As I indicated, the Monera loan approval process is immediate. Returning the contract and escrow payment to us is part of our process and independent from Monera.

The way you outlined the situation was that at any time up until the contract closes, if you did not receive the loan type you wanted, you could cancel the contract and seek escrow reimbursement. Perhaps that was our misunderstanding.

Against this background, DVC Resale Market will not be amending the contract for a finance contingency as you have requested.

Please let me know if you have any further questions!"
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
My response:

"Andy this is not DVC Resale Markets Contract it is a contract between the buyer and seller and you are supposed to be acting as an agent for both parties. It is unethical for you to have advised me to sign this agreement and hold back my deposit. It is extremely unethical for you to decide for the seller what they will agree to and not bring my request to them for a decision directly. This is a large purchase and I want protection should I not get approved for funding and or the funding estimate is not what was represented – I have no control over this decision and am unwilling to put my deposit at risk and subject myself to liability on a purchase I cannot make today without the funding.

Now you have told me I would have a funding commitment in a matter of two days so I am comfortable with changing the language to reflect a time limit to secure adequate funding or withdraw. 5 business days should be sufficient (since again you say it will only take two days). This seems a reasonable compromise and I trust this can be brought to the seller for a decision. Your continued refusal to bring my request to the seller is causing the delay in getting this deal signed and I would like to move forward to purchase these points promptly.

Please let me know what the Seller says tomorrow."

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is more stressful than buying a house!

It seems to me that you don’t understand how this process works, and rather than getting educated on it, you want to complain until you get your way. I’ve bought and sold several contracts with different agencies before. You are asking the broker change their contract that was drawn up by an attorney to accommodate you. Apply to Monera, get your commitment and move forward. As another person said here, you shouldn’t be accusing a firm for wrong doing, especially when you are not familiar with the process. And you copy and pasting your emails with the company is VERY shady and says more about you then the brokerage.

 

[luvdisneyland]

Perhaps I am over thinking this but I understood that real estate agents to not make a commission until closing day -- when they have done their work. Why are sellers agreeing to forfeit half of a deposit (20% of purchase price) to an agent who didn't get the deal closed? Certainly makes deals falling thru more profitably to an agent given they will be collecting 10% of the purchase price each time that transpires and getting to relist it and potentially do it over again. Why are agents being incentivized to kill deals after the withdrawal deadline? That doesn't seem right at all to me.

Again, you are accusing brokerages of something you know nothing about. The escrow deposit is 10% not 20%, to begin with. I would seriously suggest that you not make the purchase, and more importantly stop making up scenarios like you did here to justify slandering a company that appears to have done nothing wrong. You literally are accusing agents to “ kill a deal” for their benefit, this is not true and your accusations are unconscionable.

Perhaps I am over thinking this but I understood that real estate agents to not make a commission until closing day -- when they have done their work. Why are sellers agreeing to forfeit half of a deposit (20% of purchase price) to an agent who didn't get the deal closed? Certainly makes deals falling thru more profitably to an agent given they will be collecting 10% of the purchase price each time that transpires and getting to relist it and potentially do it over again. Why are agents being incentivized to kill deals after the withdrawal deadline? That doesn't seem right at all to me.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I am told it takes 60-90 days to close which is well past the 10 days. Yes I understand anything going wrong once a commitment is provided is extremely rare but again there is a possibility which is why a funding contingency is a part of any real estate contract. This one just specifically states that I am a cash buyer who is not contingent on funding -- which is inaccurate.

Generally, the financing contingency in a real estate contract does not bring you up to closing either. You get a period of time (lets say 10 days), to get the inspection, prove financing, etc.... If something happens to the lender after that period, you are on the hook. If you don't have the money the seller can sue, but can't make money that doesn't exist appear. It's a large risk in terms of outcome, but low risk in terms of probability. If your that concerned, try and get funding from a larger institution. You mentioned that you own a house. Perhaps a HELOC is a cheaper, and more secure option.

I have ZERO idea how booking works but I did buy enough to cover 2 studios in case i want to bring someone and could of course add more.

Major red flag. Perhaps you need more time to research, because booking with DVC is very different, and much more limiting than normal hotel bookings.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If you need to book for December 2020 and you aren't even in ROFR yet, you're already too late. I'd slow your roll. This isn't a one time purchase. It's 40 years of purchase.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

If you need to book for December 2020 and you aren't even in ROFR yet, you're already too late. I'd slow your roll. This isn't a one time purchase. It's 40 years of purchase.

Perhaps renting DVC points for the wedding may solve the short term problem

 

[luvdisneyland]

Thanks for weighing in with more information. Are you aware of the fact that Florida law allows you a ten-day recission period, without penalty, for any reason whatsoever? This in and of itself makes this entire conversation moot. Even if you sign the contract and send the deposit today, you still have ten days to obtain financing which, according to you and your lender, is eight days more than you need. It is also clear from his response that his interpretation of your request (rightly or wrongly) was that you wanted a financing contingency that led up to the closing date. But that's beyond the purview of this conversation. I will reiterate, nothing I have read here leads me to conclude that the agent is acting improperly, yet you seem to have no issue hurling that accusation around. That's a problem.

I say this with all due respect, but from everything I have read here, you are the one who is making this more complicated than it needs to be. I think there are some things about the process you do not understand, and going on the attack as you have is not helping. Bigger picture, do you really want to create this kind of stress surrounding what is already a stressful event (your wedding)? There is a good chance that you will not close before December, and if that happens how will you handle it? Quite frankly, it sounds like you are forcing this and I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to take a step back and reevaluate. I wish you the best of luck with this process. I understand it is stressful for you, and maybe that is a sign? Normally the process is not this stressful.

Suppose Montera closes shop in 20 days and I am unable to secure funding elsewhere? Then I am liable to make this purchase regardless of my ability to fund. If as you say the contingency is redundant and unnecessary then why is is in there in the first place? "almost always guaranteed" is not much of a protection and any contract should fairly represent a buyer and a seller. Why would anyone enter such a deal on the basis that "oh that never happens so don't worry". That's terrible advice you are giving there fyi. Seems like the way to move forward is to modify the language or remove the contingency all together. I certainly don't think Agent should be making decisions for the seller without his knowledge. And yes I am stressed about my wedding!

You need to cancel the contract and walk away. You don’t understand the process, and the “ what if’s “ tell me that this is not right for you. Save money and pay cash, problem solved.