DVC resale changes coming!?!

Athough I know that will never happen, that is the only way I would ever buy direct.
IMO, there is a level of benefit where EVERY single person who would consider buying or buying more points, would be willing to pay more for retail. I could certainly see free passes tied to qualified points but more likely to a VIP system. Also the ability to use points for passes, DP, etc. I could also see every non POS perk taken from resale members and given only to retail or qualified buyers. Not saying it'd happen but these type of changes have already happened with some other systems.
 
Dean said:
IMO, there is a level of benefit where EVERY single person who would consider buying or buying more points, would be willing to pay more for retail. I could certainly see free passes tied to qualified points but more likely to a VIP system. Also the ability to use points for passes, DP, etc. I could also see every non POS perk taken from resale members and given only to retail or qualified buyers. Not saying it'd happen but these type of changes have already happened with some other systems.

Yes good point. With the changes in the new fastpass I do wonder if they will introduce a system such as direct dvc guests x number of fast passes per day. Resales x - 2 or something. There was already a rumour fastpasses were going to be linked to the type of pass you had and or your accommodation. Basically the more you spent , the more you got.
 
Why does everybody hate on resale? So if I am to by direct and fall in hard times and can No longer afford it I am to suffer because its dvc for life?
 
Why does everybody hate on resale? So if I am to by direct and fall in hard times and can No longer afford it I am to suffer because its dvc for life?

Pretty much. There's no way to make a blanket statement that is true for everyone. But the general consensus seems to be that the downside to any real change in resale restrictions will always be that contracts would no longer sell for high(ish) prices. Their value would plummet pretty much as soon as you signed on the dotted line.
 

Ah, perhaps we might again see the promotion of "free park admission when staying in a room booked on (qualified) DVC Points." If so, that perk might, for many, justify the escalating Retail prices? It sure would make existing owners glad to be grandfathered!

I think it is unlikely that any perks will clearly justify the spread in pricing in pure economic terms. At the end of the day, DVD has to pay for most of the perks offered to Members, and that has to come from the proceeds of sales. There has to be something left over after that happens! In every timeshare system I can think of, the restrictions on "non-qualified" purchases are worth less than the cost to remove them. In some cases, they are worth significantly less.

There are a few exceptions---for example, the restaurant discounts are pretty clearly designed to drive traffic to less popular restaurants at less busy times, and DVD probably does not contribute to those. But, I bet they do contribute to e.g. the AP discounts.

The current resale restrictions were, in some ways, a stroke of pure genius. DVCMC/CRO was having a very hard time to move all of the inventory necessary to pay for DCL cruises, ABD trips, and Disney Collection hotel nights, and were resorting to fire-sale prices even in shoulder seasons. Left on its own, this would unreasonably increase the point levels required for these internal exchange uses. Restricting those uses simultaneously creates a sense of "loss" for resale owners, while also reducing pressure on DVCMC/CRO to monetize rental inventory, helping to keep point levels to something that is at least arguably reasonable. Most resale owners should be thanking DVD for these restrictions, as they are almost always a money-losing proposition vs. just renting out your points and using them for the cruise, tour, or hotel you desire.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the AP discount might be the next thing to go. I would not double down on it being grandfathered, either, but instead can imagine a way that resale owners can "fully qualify" their points with some fee. But, those are both pure guesses. I don't have any particular inside information, just trying to read the tea leaves.

What's more, I don't think DVD is necessarily in a hurry to add restrictions. I'm basing this on the general sense here at DISboards, where a lot of pretty informed people are still buying from the developer in light of the current restrictions. This in spite of the fact that in real economic terms, the restrictions are meaningless. The average timeshare customer, generally less informed, is probably buying it hook, line, and sinker.

Their value would plummet pretty much as soon as you signed on the dotted line.
It is important to remember that this is true today. It is only likely to become worse over time, not better, as the system grows. More Members means more Members looking to sell, on average. Unless the demand for resale contracts increases along with that increase in supply, prices are going to go down. And, because timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought, there is no reason to think that resale buyer pool is going to grow as fast as would be necessary to provide price support.

There will be short term variations in this trend. For example, the recent recession cleared out a lot of the "dead wood" on the Membership rolls, and supply of resale contracts seems to have shrunk somewhat now that that inventory has changed hands. But, over the long term, the trend is more or less inescapable.
 
Why does everybody hate on resale? So if I am to by direct and fall in hard times and can No longer afford it I am to suffer because its dvc for life?
Resale would not be the culprit in your example.

The purchaser would be at fault because they purchased something they ultimately were unable to afford. And yes, they would suffer -- in fact, their entire family would suffer.

When people are considering a purchase with a 30-50 year committment to substantial maintenance fees, they certainly should carefully consider their honest ability to pay those fees year after year far into the future. To do anything less is really being irresponsible with their family's financial future.

That's why we often see threads here asking about dues increases over time and what to expect -- thoughtful buyers analyzing the REAL issues they should be considering.

Unfortunately, we also see lots of threads focused on meaningless perks which can be taken away with one stroke of the pen, and others with amazingly tortured, convoluted "financial analysis" designed to prove the validity of what the purchaser wants to do in the first place. A LOT of those folks have defaulted over the last few years -- the dead wood Brian mentioned.
 
In the last 5 years how many new points have come on the market?

10 million? 20 million?

I don't know the answer!:confused3

With this many new points on the market then prices of course will go down(resale)!


Supple and demand!
 
When people are considering a purchase with a 30-50 year committment to substantial maintenance fees, they certainly should carefully consider their honest ability to pay those fees year after year far into the future.
It's more than just the dues. They are also committing to 30-50 years of *vacations*, mostly at WDW. That's one of the nice things about owning a timeshare, to be honest---you are sort of forced to take the time to vacation to get value out of your purchase. But, the timeshare only covers the lodging. You still have to get there. You still have to eat. You still have any entertainment expenses that you incur. And, at WDW, those things can add up fast.
 
It's more than just the dues. They are also committing to 30-50 years of *vacations*, mostly at WDW. That's one of the nice things about owning a timeshare, to be honest---you are sort of forced to take the time to vacation to get value out of your purchase. But, the timeshare only covers the lodging. You still have to get there. You still have to eat. You still have any entertainment expenses that you incur. And, at WDW, those things can add up fast.

This was from my post on another thread:

Your total cost for your vacations depends on your vacation habits and preferences.

For us, 2 adults vacationing at WDW for 30 years with 300 BCV points will cost $231,515.00 if the points are purchased resale, $243,215.00 if direct and our costs for food, travel, admission, dues and Disney stuff has a 4% increase each year.

The starting amount spent for the travel, food, admission and stuff was only $2000 per year.

Most people and posts here on the DVC DIS seem to focus on the points cost when the dues and everything else is the real luxury expense.

:earsboy: Bill

 
Why does everybody hate on resale? So if I am to by direct and fall in hard times and can No longer afford it I am to suffer because its dvc for life?
Exactly. It's not Disney's job to protect your investment, only theirs. We may be able to ride their shirt tails in some situations, certainly have been in the past.
 
Resale would not be the culprit in your example.

The purchaser would be at fault because they purchased something they ultimately were unable to afford. And yes, they would suffer -- in fact, their entire family would suffer.

When people are considering a purchase with a 30-50 year committment to substantial maintenance fees, they certainly should carefully consider their honest ability to pay those fees year after year far into the future. To do anything less is really being irresponsible with their family's financial future.

That's why we often see threads here asking about dues increases over time and what to expect -- thoughtful buyers analyzing the REAL issues they should be considering.

Unfortunately, we also see lots of threads focused on meaningless perks which can be taken away with one stroke of the pen, and others with amazingly tortured, convoluted "financial analysis" designed to prove the validity of what the purchaser wants to do in the first place. A LOT of those folks have defaulted over the last few years -- the dead wood Brian mentioned.

I've wondered how many members were 'sold' on DVC as an impulse purchase when in the parks without doing any homework.

It's been a long time since i've spoken to a guide but I don't recall DVC membership being pitched to me as any sort of investment other than pre-paid accommodations.

That said, i'm thrilled to receive any and all percs they decide to toss our way but nagging thoughts as to 'why such largesse now?'. Waiting to see what rumored changes come to pass as to tier levels/resale restrictions.

Many here have stated they purchased direct thru DVC, then added on thru resale. I went with a small resale and then added on majority of contract thru DVC at another resort and still toying with adding on resale at a 3rd resort. If they decided to create tiers based upon method of purchase and don't grandfather current members, I'm not sure how they'd classify my type of membership?:confused3
 
In the hypothetical world in which they add some new restriction/perk and do not grandfather, the points you purchased directly from Disney would be "qualified", while those you did not buy from them would not be. The order of purchase would not matter.
 
In the hypothetical world in which they add some new restriction/perk and do not grandfather, the points you purchased directly from Disney would be "qualified", while those you did not buy from them would not be. The order of purchase would not matter.

that would be a compromise I suppose i'd live with...wouldn't want to handle (or pay for increased administrative costs via dues) as to the accounting hours at DVC to review the contracts.
 
I've wondered how many members were 'sold' on DVC as an impulse purchase when in the parks without doing any homework.
My guess is it's a VERY high percentage -- like 80-90%. Timeshares generally are sold as impulse purchases to vacationing "marks." DVC is no different, although they are among the better sales organizations ethically.

People here on the DIS are pretty knowledgeable, but I'm sure most DVC owners don't even know the DIS, or resale, exist.

And a lot of people think they don't even need to do any research; they can just rely on what the DVC timeshare salesman says. It is DISNEY, after all!
It's been a long time since i've spoken to a guide but I don't recall DVC membership being pitched to me as any sort of investment other than pre-paid accommodations.
Agree -- it wasn't pitched on perks to me either.

However, I do think that's changed in recent years. Remember "500 Worlds?" That was the DVC/RCI pitch that was plastered all over the DVC vans for a while.

And obviously, today they are selling the idea of using points for cruises, other Disney resorts, ABD, etc much more now. That is their differentiation point from resale, although many of us here consider those options worthless.

A sales point doesn't have to be valid to work.
 
In the last 5 years how many new points have come on the market?

10 million? 20 million?

I don't know the answer!:confused3

With this many new points on the market then prices of course will go down(resale)!


Supple and demand!

As to resorts opened in last five years, total points for AKV are about 11.5M, BLT 5.8M; VGC in Cal added about 1M. and Aulani about 11.5M. Not all of those have been sold. Total before those resorts was about 35M and SSR, which has about 15M, was still on sale as new 5 years ago.

The major dive in resale prices occurred 2008-2009 when the world collapsed. In the last year or more there has also been some significant decrease for which the total number of new points sold in last five years could definitely be factor. A new factor that has also entered the picture is end date as BWV, VWL, BCV, HH, VB and much of OKW passed a key threshold--there are now only 30 years left on those resorts making them less desirable choices for many younger families. Another major factor that has led to resales costing substantially less than new is simply Disney greed. Despite the recession, it has increased prices since 2008 enormously, e.g., BLT has gone, during its four years of sales existence, from an initial price of $112 to $165.
 
that would be a compromise I suppose i'd live with...wouldn't want to handle (or pay for increased administrative costs via dues) as to the accounting hours at DVC to review the contracts.
You're not, that's a DVD budget issue that's unrelated to DVC or DVCMC.

I've wondered how many members were 'sold' on DVC as an impulse purchase when in the parks without doing any homework.

It's been a long time since i've spoken to a guide but I don't recall DVC membership being pitched to me as any sort of investment other than pre-paid accommodations.

That said, i'm thrilled to receive any and all percs they decide to toss our way but nagging thoughts as to 'why such largesse now?'. Waiting to see what rumored changes come to pass as to tier levels/resale restrictions.

Many here have stated they purchased direct thru DVC, then added on thru resale. I went with a small resale and then added on majority of contract thru DVC at another resort and still toying with adding on resale at a 3rd resort. If they decided to create tiers based upon method of purchase and don't grandfather current members, I'm not sure how they'd classify my type of membership?:confused3
Historically DVC has sold itself pretty well. Disney creates an air of comfort that draws many people in. DVC hasn't been very aggressive in the hard sell arena. I think this is changing somewhat but we'll see.
 
drusba said:
Another major factor that has led to resales costing substantially less than new is simply Disney greed. Despite the recession, it has increased prices since 2008 enormously, e.g., BLT has gone, during its four years of sales existence, from an initial price of $112 to $165.

The increase in prices at BLT may be to help leverage the prices at GFV. You can't expect people to pay the rumored prices for GFV when they can pay far less for the resort next door. A $20/point price difference is easier to swallow than a $50/point difference.

Plus, as a company Disney is not known for letting the current economic conditions influence their prices. They use incentives to make their prices more attractive.
 
You're not, that's a DVD budget issue that's unrelated to DVC or DVCMC.

Historically DVC has sold itself pretty well. Disney creates an air of comfort that draws many people in. DVC hasn't been very aggressive in the hard sell arena. I think this is changing somewhat but we'll see.

glad to hear members don't cover the cost.

we've taken to automatically unplugging the room phone when staying anywhere with a TS salesperson in the lobby. i don't think DVC would ever cross that divide.
 
The increase in prices at BLT may be to help leverage the prices at GFV. You can't expect people to pay the rumored prices for GFV when they can pay far less for the resort next door. A $20/point price difference is easier to swallow than a $50/point difference.

Plus, as a company Disney is not known for letting the current economic conditions influence their prices. They use incentives to make their prices more attractive.

I would expect that the point cost per room would be much higher for GF. I don't know about the cost per point, although I can't imagine why it wouldn't be higher than the current offerings.
 










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