DVC resale changes coming!?!

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Does anyone know how muck akv are at the moment direct from disney?

 

[Firepath]

I agree. I think if they were going to make a change of this type, they'd be much more likely to keep everything the same, but offer an enhancement as a benefit -- like 7 months for everyone, as it is now; 8 months for "VIP" owners.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something like this: New fee to be applied for booking at a non-home resort, unless you bought direct, then the fee will be waived. Resale owners could still book the non-home resorts, it would just cost them more. So you pay less to buy in, but could ultimately end up paying a lot more than just buying direct, if you like to (or have to) stay at other than home resort. I think it would be a win-win for DVD.

 

[tjkraz]

If they grandfather I see no issue with restricting future resales.

Consider how much less YOUR points will be worth when/if forced to sell.

Regardless of where you own, if potential buyers for your contract are held to just one resort it will dramatically lower the value. Even fans of Beach Club or Contemporary would be sacrificing a lot of value if completely prohibited from using points for Grand Californian, Aulani or Saratoga Springs on short notice. The buyer would be facing DECADES of mandatory 7+ month bookings--as soon as that non-Home window kicked-in most vacancies would still be gobbled-up by eligible direct buyers.

If Disney ever took such extreme action, it would be challenged.

 

[bookwormde]

It would still devalue everyone's contract since people buying from individuals would only have home resort access so their ability (price received would be rediced) so that is why it would have a negative impact on everyone who owns a contract, which is a violation of Fla timeshare law, which requires the plan to make all changes based on the best interest of the members (not the administrator or associated buisnesses) since there is no offsetting gain.

Now if they grandfathered all existing contracts to reamain under the old rule and amended the POS then yes GFV and all the other contracts that DVC sells direct could be covered by the new rule, but not ones not owned prior to the rule change. DVC would never do this for non GFV contracts since that would put them at a lesser sales competive position with resale

I don't see a legal issue especially if they grandfather in existing owners. Disney doesn't have any legal obligation to maintain resale prices, just like other timeshares and we all know where their prices are.

New buyers will still buy and existing owners will buy direct if they want resort hoping rights.

There are around 400,000 people who are members and only 3,200 or so have posted on the DIS members thread. It's clear that most members don't bother to get involved in the politics of DVC ownership.

Bill

 

[bookwormde]

Disney can write whatever they want, but they are still "fettered" by Fla law, so they have to make changes in the best interest of the majority of the members. They just put that wording in to "fool" those who have not read the statute.

bookwormde

Our rights are spelled out in the HOME RESORT RULES AND REGULATIONS.

"The following rules and regulations have been designed to provide Club Members with information on the use and operation of the Home Resort Reservation Component at each DVC Resort. This Guide will be amended from time to time, as necessary."

The last paragraph reads:

"DVC Operator reserves the right to amend these Rules and Regulations, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion. These changes may affect a Club Member's right to use, exchange and rent the Club Member's Ownership Interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Member Services publications. Current publications supersede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of these Rules and Regulations."

Bottom line is that Disney can do what ever they want, when they want.

Bill

 

[JimMIA]

I have faith that DVC will act in the best interest of the membership. Will that please everyone, of course not.

I have faith that DVC will act in the best interests of DVC management, regardless of how it plays out for owners.

 

[Jousey]

Disney can write whatever they want, but they are still "fettered" by Fla law, so they have to make changes in the best interest of the majority of the members. They just put that wording in to "fool" those who have not read the statute.

bookwormde

So what if they change the resale rulling on all contracts closed after the date and place restrictions on those contracts. So with GF opening they can inpose the new rules, but could they not also write all direct contracts from here out with the same language and restrictions?
This is an intresting question over-all and I think will be a very well researched finding if the restrictions are handed down.

 

[1153rsmith]

At the end of the day, DVC will look out for it's own best interests. Part of that, however, is making sure its members, as a whole, are relatively satisfied. As I said earlier, I don't own DVC, but would like to. From what I can see, they are still far and away better than the other timeshare companies out there. I just hope they don't aspire to stoop to their level. One of the big draws for DVC for me, other than location, is the fact that because there is a healthy resale market, I feel like I might be able to sell, if I had to, and not loose everything I have invested. I have kept my current non-DVC timeshare because I don't want to sell it for $500 or less.

Other than DVC, there really is no resale market for timeshares that I can find. DVC knows they are setting on a gold mine and knows they have a lot of wiggle room compared to the rest of the industry.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I would paying 200 dollars a point! Not sure how big its going to be but you can imagine it being very popular! Unless the price is so high nobody buys it so when it comes online its a free for all at 7 months for dvc owners who bought other resorts direct ( if these changes go ahead ).

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I would paying 200 dollars a point! Not sure how big its going to be but you can imagine it being very popular! Unless the price is so high nobody buys it so when it comes online its a free for all at 7 months for dvc owners who bought other resorts direct ( if these changes go ahead ).

Sorry some of my post got cut..

I dont think Disney need to worry about GF because if its anything like BLT nobody but GF owners will be able to book it as only they have the 11 month window!

 

[Tigger031266]

When are the big December membership meetings? I would think this would all be laid out at that meeting? Right?

 

[rusafee1183]

There are only so many points sold to each resort. Whether you are now competing with an owner that bought direct or resale does not make any difference there are only so many points for each resort.

So if they grandfather you in, nothing changes to the current resorts. It could however affect future resorts based on how it is set up.

Where are you trying to book at 7 months and having problems, did you wait list. Certainly certain specific room categories such as Club Level, that are so few in number that even those booking at 11 months have problems, but for most of the rooms booking at 7 months and using wait list, is usually successful.

Ah, that makes sense now. Thanks!

And, no. We have never waitlisted. I am still a relatively new member and didn't exactly understand how it worked. It seems like it should be easy enough, but I didn't know how it worked with my points if I book another room 'just in case' and then if points go into holding or something when I would cancel. I figured I start doing that after all of the 'initial' membership made sense.

I love/hate these boards sometimes. I feel like I get a lot of knowledge and help, but at the same time I read posts like this and I don't quite understand what is going on yet, and it makes me panic that all of a sudden my membership was a bad idea.

 

[disneynutz]

When are the big December membership meetings? I would think this would all be laid out at that meeting? Right?

Disney has put the word out that starting this year they will not allow any questions other than budget questions and in the past IMO the Q&A was a token. They allowed a few people to speak, then they cut off the questions with people still lined up to speak saying that they are out of time and that they must clear the hall. It was obvious to me that they really don't want to deal with members face to face.

Bill

 

[Missyrose]

I love/hate these boards sometimes. I feel like I get a lot of knowledge and help, but at the same time I read posts like this and I don't quite understand what is going on yet, and it makes me panic that all of a sudden my membership was a bad idea.

No need for panic, these are just rumors. And if you love your home resort (soon to be resorts) like your previous posts indicate, you shouldn't be too affected if any of these changes come to pass.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I said to DW last night thats why everybody says direct or resale only buy at the resort you want to stay. She said but the resort hopping is what seperated DVC from any other timeshare for her. Otherwise its not a club. Just a timeshare at SSR or BLT etc. i thought good point...

 

[drdisney]

Disney has put the word out that starting this year they will not allow any questions other than budget questions and in the past IMO the Q&A was a token. They allowed a few people to speak, then they cut off the questions with people still lined up to speak saying that they are out of time and that they must clear the hall. It was obvious to me that they really don't want to deal with members face to face.

Bill

And that's the one problem I have with DVC. As Members why can't we have a say in what goes in our resort? We are the ones that own there, and the ones that stay and enjoy our houses there. I feel like the one time of year we can speak we are given the cold shoulder from Disney. I only own at DVC, but is this normal for a timeshares ?

 

[tjkraz]

Disney has put the word out that starting this year they will not allow any questions other than budget questions and in the past IMO the Q&A was a token. They allowed a few people to speak, then they cut off the questions with people still lined up to speak saying that they are out of time and that they must clear the hall. It was obvious to me that they really don't want to deal with members face to face.

Bill

Every year they have fielded dozens of questions. The Q&A is NOT short. I've sat through meetings which ran more than 3 hours in length.

Some of the Q&A topics from last year included:
- Dislike of lamps at AKV
- Guest mad because she waited an hour for a bus
- Request for king size bed in studio
- Valet parking (again)
- Request for member FastPass perk

I'm not convinced that the hundreds of members in attendance really feel it's worth their time to sit through another's laundry list of pet peeves.

 

[rusafee1183]

No need for panic, these are just rumors. And if you love your home resort (soon to be resorts) like your previous posts indicate, you shouldn't be too affected if any of these changes come to pass.

Thanks! We do love our home resort, so I would be OK - but part of the reason to buy in for us was the excitement of staying at all the different DVC resorts and having a different experience every trip. We did buy direct, so I am sure that we will still have the ability to book elsewhere... I was just more worried about the availability.

But, we will hopfully be buying in to BWV/BCV soon so at least I know that there will be availability for us at whichever one we choose there also.

So, at this point IF these restrictions come to pass and if I buy resale, I will *hopefully* be grandfathered in and pay the prices as they stand now (or more, I guess because it seems like until they pass the new restrictions it will be a sellers market) OR wait until after they pass the restrictions and hopefully pay way less, but only be able to book where I own.

 

[mjc2003]

We bought BCV resale in early 2011 after nearly buying direct twice before. I learned a lot about the process right here on this board. I bought before the April 2011 deadline, just barely, mostly because of all the "changes" that would take affect. I knew from reading here that these exclusions amounted to "poor" point expenditures, as has been argued many times, but I still wanted options. So we bought resale. At the time, there were rampant discussions here about the new tiered system that so many were reporting back about on behalf of their guides. We were going to have "Clubs within the club", and different booking windows. People with more than 500 points were going to have an extra discount on AP's, or get an extra 2 weeks for dining reservations. People were really worried that they were going to make these changes retroactive, and that's why the resale changes were made in the first place. The overall theme with regards to the resale restrictions was: "They MUST be doing this for a reason. There's another shoe still to drop".

The reason, it seems, is that they wanted to tweak the system just enough to provide further "ammo" to their salespeople when confronting the uneducated buyer.

This whole idea of furthering resale restrictions, grandfathering contracts, direct vs resale vs old resale; it's just too complicated. You make changes like that to a system that is broken, not one that is mostly working well.

Could they theoretically figure out a way to make access to the GFV, and by some extension BLT and possibly Poly down the road, exclusionary? I guess. But how would that work? they are going to charge somebody $200 a point and they have no flexibility? They can't trade into BCV from GFV is it doesn't work both ways, otherwise there's a point imbalance or they trade in like the concierge collection, but again....TOO COMPLICATED!! And at $200 (or $160 or whatever crazy number they'll be asking), these contracts would automatically lose 75% of their value when they're signed? Or are those "Top Shelf" direct purchasers going to be able to resell their contract with no limitations? Yet another level?

Like I said, all considerations that seem extreme when juxtaposed to the system as it currently stands. It's hardly broken, why would they go for such a big fix?

I think they made the changes last year to create some sentiment that Direct contracts had increased perceived value while affectively doing little to the resale market. The prices are about where they were before the change, give or take.

GFV owners might get increased booking opportunities or windows, or their might be some added benefit. But added benefit for some doesn't necessarily mean lost benefits for others, and I think ultimately any forthcoming announcements will be a lot to do about nothing for most of us.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that DVD is falling all over themselves to build, as soon as one DVC resort is completed they're breaking ground on another and the same cannot really be said about the resorts side of the business. Translation: DVC is a working business model, and you don't generally overhaul a business model that is working. Tweak it? Sure. But nothing this dramatic.

 

[disneynutz]

Every year they have fielded dozens of questions. The Q&A is NOT short. I've sat through meetings which ran more than 3 hours in length.

Some of the Q&A topics from last year included:
- Dislike of lamps at AKV
- Guest mad because she waited an hour for a bus
- Request for king size bed in studio
- Valet parking (again)
- Request for member FastPass perk

I'm not convinced that the hundreds of members in attendance really feel it's worth their time to sit through another's laundry list of pet peeves.

In the meetings that I attended, I remember maybe 20 or so people got to ask questions or voice their opinion. The length of the meetings included official business and entertainment, skits, singing, and slide shows.

Bill