DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[Dean]

Is it possible that THV can go into a new higher category for all seasons than a regular SSR 2BR? And the rest of SSR categories gets a points reduction in all seasons? I am sure this will go over like a lead balloon to anyone who bought SSR recently to get THV at the 11month mark.

Lets fact it, THV are the most popular category (maybe of any DVC resort) and the rest of SSR seems to have much better availability.

Does the fact that THV are titled / alloted separately preclude this?

You may indeed see higher points for THV at some point with a corresponding decrease for other villa categories. I think you're far overestimating the relative demand of THV though. When all is said and done, and all THV are declared into DVC inventory, I think you'll see them around he same demand as the regular GV. And if they do eventually add booking categories to SSR as I expect they will, it's very likely that 1 or more 2 BR choices will be more popular as well. There are still quite a few choices that appear more popular even with only about half declared into inventory and while they are still a novelty for many.

 

[Bob Price]

I believe it is possible. However since they are such unique units, I would think that DVC would be wise to wait a few more years to see what sort of trends emerge.

Other people have stated that only half of the Treehouses have been rolled into DVC at this point. That could mean that members only have access to 30 of the 60 treehouses. There's also the possibility that demand will go down a bit after some of their newness wears off.

They didn't even wait for BLT to open before adjusting the chart there. Anything is possible.

 

[tjkraz]

They didn't even wait for BLT to open before adjusting the chart there.

True but the primary focus of the 2010 reallocation was to rebalance weekdays vs. weekends. I doubt there is a compelling argument suggesting that different patterns would immediately emerge at BLT.

I have no problems with the Treehouses being reallocated to adjust weekday/weekend rates or even seasons. But as far as adjusting the charts to charge a higher price than Two Bedroom villas, I think they would need at least a couple more years' worth of reservation data before considering that option.

 

[Bob Price]

True but the primary focus of the 2010 reallocation was to rebalance weekdays vs. weekends. I doubt there is a compelling argument suggesting that different patterns would immediately emerge at BLT.

I have no problems with the Treehouses being reallocated to adjust weekday/weekend rates or even seasons. But as far as adjusting the charts to charge a higher price than Two Bedroom villas, I think they would need at least a couple more years' worth of reservation data before considering that option.

I'll drink to that.

 

[pinnocchiosdad]

February 1st is almost here. That is the first day that you can make a resie for 2011. It would be a burden on us (members/owners) to have to calculate our points and make a resie at the same time if they wait until 2/1 to release the new chart. With that said it truely should be anyday!!!

 

[wildernessDad]

February 1st is almost here. That is the first day that you can make a resie for 2011. It would be a burden on us (members/owners) to have to calculate our points and make a resie at the same time if they wait until 2/1 to release the new chart. With that said it truely should be anyday!!!

Actually, the date is January 26, as one could call for a 7 night stay and that would fall into 2011.

 

[Brian Noble]

But as far as adjusting the charts to charge a higher price than Two Bedroom villas

I'm wondering how they would even manage that. If the deed is written as a fractional interest in a "unit", and THV "units" are two treehouses each, I wouldn't think they could raise the THV point requirements across the board without also giving the THV deedholders more points as well. Just *imagine* the firestorm if that were to happen!

 

[wdrl]

I'm wondering how they would even manage that. If the deed is written as a fractional interest in a "unit", and THV "units" are two treehouses each, I wouldn't think they could raise the THV point requirements across the board without also giving the THV deedholders more points as well. Just *imagine* the firestorm if that were to happen!

The points allotted to a Unit are not related to the cost of booking a villa. Instead, the number of points is based on the square footage of the Unit. For example, at BLT, a two-bedroom Unit is allotted 19,640 points whether it is categorized as a Standard View, a Lake View, or an MK View. Furthermore, THVs are not a separate real estate interest; they are part of the larger SSR resort. Thus, DVD can adjust the booking costs of the THVs by making corresponding adjustments in the other SSR accommodations.

Frankly, I think DVD will keep the cost of a THV equivalent to an SSR two-bedroom villa for some time to come. DVD has a lot of SSR points to sell, and having the 3-bedroom THVs cost the same as a 2-bedroom villa is an attractive selling point.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I haven't read all you are discussing about the treehouses. Wasn't is a "selling point" that you were getting 3 bedrooms for the price of 2? You're getting 2 baths, and I think that makes a huge difference when comparing to the newer 2 bedrooms in BLT or AKV. I don't think they could charge more for a treehouse than a 2 bedroom at SSR.

Bobbi

 

[LisaS]

I haven't read all you are discussing about the treehouses. Wasn't is a "selling point" that you were getting 3 bedrooms for the price of 2? You're getting 2 baths, and I think that makes a huge difference when comparing to the newer 2 bedrooms in BLT or AKV. I don't think they could charge more for a treehouse than a 2 bedroom at SSR.

Bobbi

I agree Bobbi. In addition, the occupancy of a THV is nine, the same as a 2BR at BLT and at AKV (other than the Value 2BR). I believe the master BR in a THV has a queen bed rather than a king bed and one of the bedrooms has bunk beds rather than two queen beds so while there are 3 bedrooms it really isn't the same as a GV.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I sent a message yesterday to member satisfaction asking about the 2011 point charts because we are in planning mode now for 2011. This is totally ridiculous that we don't have those yet!!

 

[cbjl]

I just got a call from member satisfaction in response to an email I sent about 2011 point charts.
She said they will be released next week.
They don't have an exact date, but they should be out mid to late next week & she suggested checking the website each day next week.

 

[lisareniff]

I just got a call from member satisfaction in response to an email I sent about 2011 point charts.
She said they will be released next week.
They don't have an exact date, but they should be out mid to late next week ....

I am going to venture a guess, only a guess, that the 2011 points charts will come out on January 22, 2010.

Do we have a winner!?! Friday the 22nd will be 4 days before the first day they are needed. That would be the same as last year.

 

[wildernessDad]

Do we have a winner!?! Friday the 22nd will be 4 days before the first day they are needed. That would be the same as last year.

I noticed when it was released in 2009 and figured that it will be on a 'similar' Friday. That made it the 22nd. I figure they'll want to release it near the end of the day on Friday so that they will have the weekend for members to settle down before they call them about it.

We'll see if I'm a winner or not. Although I'm not sure what I will have won - maybe the need for an add on....

 

[tjkraz]

I haven't read all you are discussing about the treehouses. Wasn't is a "selling point" that you were getting 3 bedrooms for the price of 2? You're getting 2 baths, and I think that makes a huge difference when comparing to the newer 2 bedrooms in BLT or AKV. I don't think they could charge more for a treehouse than a 2 bedroom at SSR.

Bobbi

I agree Bobbi. In addition, the occupancy of a THV is nine, the same as a 2BR at BLT and at AKV (other than the Value 2BR). I believe the master BR in a THV has a queen bed rather than a king bed and one of the bedrooms has bunk beds rather than two queen beds so while there are 3 bedrooms it really isn't the same as a GV.

Playing devil's advocate, I think there are a couple of different elements that come into play. The first issue is how DVC initially THOUGHT the treehouses would be regarded. The treehouses clearly have their pros and cons. To many the bunk beds are a negative. The presence of only two bathrooms could be a negative (vs other newer resorts with 3 baths.) Other issues include remote location, limited parking, awkward bus transportation, etc.

I'm sure occupancy played a role in DVC's decision to price them the same as other 2Bs, but I'm not convinced that was the entire basis for their pricing. All of these point determinations are a best-guess to a large extent and DVC opted to price them the same as other 2Bs.

If demand for the treehouses is significantly higher than Two Bedroom villas at SSR they probably could increase the nightly costs for that room class. Other units would have to go down so there is a silver lining. But an increase in the cost of 60 treehouses isn't going to have much of a positive impact on the hundreds of other units at the resorts.

That said, there are other situations where such changes would be clearly warranted today. The most obvious is the Preferred BoardWalk View vs. Preferred Garden/Pool view at BWV. Costs have always been the same but the BW view is undeniably more sought-after by members.

If DVC reallocates in the next couple of years to increase the cost of the BW View units, I'd view it as a warning sign for Treehouse fans.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Playing devil's advocate, I think there are a couple of different elements that come into play. The first issue is how DVC initially THOUGHT the treehouses would be regarded. The treehouses clearly have their pros and cons. To many the bunk beds are a negative. The presence of only two bathrooms could be a negative (vs other newer resorts with 3 baths.) Other issues include remote location, limited parking, awkward bus transportation, etc.

I'm sure occupancy played a role in DVC's decision to price them the same as other 2Bs, but I'm not convinced that was the entire basis for their pricing. All of these point determinations are a best-guess to a large extent and DVC opted to price them the same as other 2Bs.

If demand for the treehouses is significantly higher than Two Bedroom villas at SSR they probably could increase the nightly costs for that room class. Other units would have to go down so there is a silver lining. But an increase in the cost of 60 treehouses isn't going to have much of a positive impact on the hundreds of other units at the resorts.

That said, there are other situations where such changes would be clearly warranted today. The most obvious is the Preferred BoardWalk View vs. Preferred Garden/Pool view at BWV. Costs have always been the same but the BW view is undeniably more sought-after by members.

If DVC reallocates in the next couple of years to increase the cost of the BW View units, I'd view it as a warning sign for Treehouse fans.

Excellent post.

I hope that DVC chooses NOT to reallocate the Boardwalk views. This would be particularly nasty now as Boardwalk owners took the brunt of the valet parking fiasco.

I admit that with my small contract and love of the boardwalk view...I do not relish the thought of a boardwalk re-allocation.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I noticed when it was released in 2009 and figured that it will be on a 'similar' Friday. That made it the 22nd. I figure they'll want to release it near the end of the day on Friday so that they will have the weekend for members to settle down before they call them about it.

We'll see if I'm a winner or not. Although I'm not sure what I will have won - maybe the need for an add on....

And there lies the subliminal intent.....

 

[Dean]

I hope that DVC chooses NOT to reallocate the Boardwalk views. This would be particularly nasty now as Boardwalk owners took the brunt of the valet parking fiasco.

I admit that with my small contract and love of the boardwalk view...I do not relish the thought of a boardwalk re-allocation.

I'm sure they want to do a reallocation and I'm suspecting the main reason they did not was due to the complexity and accounting of it. If you think about it the BW view should be more points than the rest due to the higher demand. The problem is really though is that it's very difficult to do both balancing weekends to weekdays AND make this change do. One or the other would have to have to be charges simply to even out the numbers. If they didn't have dedicated studios and 1 BR units it'd be easier to legally do I think. But ignoring that legal restriction if you look at say a studio during adventure which is now 10/13 weekdays depending on view, you'd have to do something like 10/12/14. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, I think it should, just it's more complicated.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I'm sure they want to do a reallocation and I'm suspecting the main reason they did not was due to the complexity and accounting of it. If you think about it the BW view should be more points than the rest due to the higher demand. The problem is really though is that it's very difficult to do both balancing weekends to weekdays AND make this change do. One or the other would have to have to be charges simply to even out the numbers. If they didn't have dedicated studios and 1 BR units it'd be easier to legally do I think. But ignoring that legal restriction if you look at say a studio during adventure which is now 10/13 weekdays depending on view, you'd have to do something like 10/12/14. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, I think it should, just it's more complicated.

Dean, I respect your opinion, but disagree on the need to re-allocate boardwalk points. I think each resort has unique aspects that make it a good deal for one reason or another.

Beach Club Villas tend to go for a great deal more than Boardwalk Villas on the open market. If Boardwalk views were reallocated, the value of the boardwalk points would fall in value, increasing the imbalance between Boardwalk and Beach Club.

The re-allocation would have to make other points cheaper, and that would likely be the pool/garden view. However, many owners did not buy BWV to view the pool.

Boardwalk generally rents the standard and boardwalk view points to owners, and comes close to reserving out all of the preferred view rooms to other DVC members and through CRO. Changing the points charts, will only make Boardwalk view points more available for people who do not own at Boardwalk.

I understand that DVC is in the business of selling NEW points, but would also see that they would not want to devalue one of the existing resorts for several reasons, especially if the resort next door was selling for more.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I respect your opinion, but disagree on the need to re-allocate boardwalk points. I think each resort has unique aspects that make it a good deal for one reason or another.

Beach Club Villas tend to go for a great deal more than Boardwalk Villas on the open market. If Boardwalk views were reallocated, the value of the boardwalk points would fall in value, increasing the imbalance between Boardwalk and Beach Club.

The re-allocation would have to make other points cheaper, and that would likely be the pool/garden view. However, many owners did not buy BWV to view the pool.

Boardwalk generally rents the standard and boardwalk view points to owners, and comes close to reserving out all of the preferred view rooms to other DVC members and through CRO. Changing the points charts, will only make Boardwalk view points more available for people who do not own at Boardwalk.

I understand that DVC is in the business of selling NEW points, but would also see that they would not want to devalue one of the existing resorts for several reasons, especially if the resort next door was selling for more.

Certainly it's not something they have to do. My view on any such issue is that anytime you have the opportunity to even out demand, that's a good thing. The big issue was to make it a booking category which they've done so that at least members have the opportunity to secure those options (along with standard view) over non members. Still, there's a fairly dramatic difference in demand between SV/BW view and the rest at BWV. I do understand though the idea of micro-management vs macro-management and that there comes a point of diminishing returns on such changes.

One area we seem to differ is on the relative demand of the non standard/non BW view rooms and I think the difference in demand is quite large and in my view that is a bad thing. That's one of the reasons I think the concierge offering at AKV was a very poor choice for DVC or else they should have sold it with exclusive rights to those buying and willing to pay more for that options.

I think you're making far too many assumptions on the reasons that BCV is more than BWV. I feel that such a reallocaiton is unlikely to make any difference in resale prices, or if anything, that it might enhance them somewhat. I don't know why most people bought but I think it is fair to say that many did buy with either the idea of standard view or BW view as a major factor. IMO I don't think a minor adjustment of increasing BW view would deter that group but I do feel that a minor downward adjustment to the pool/Garden view would actually enhance it's appeal to buyers as a whole. Another option would be to rework the entire thing making the SV group much larger in terms of segment of the resort say 70% standard and 30% "new preferred mostly BW view". I'm sure we'd get the "I bough X points to get BW view only" crowd but I think I've been pretty clear of my view that type of whining over the years.

I do not agree that changing the points as being discussed will alter BW view demand that much but my goal would actually be that it would. You state, if I'm reading correctly, that a shift making BW view higher would get some of those units to the 7 month window because they'd have less demand. That would actually be my goal, not that they be reserved by non members, but that the demand is such that ALL view types fill up at roughly the same time and thus if ANY units make it to 7 months, all view types likely would. I realize it will never be 100% but it should be a goal of the system as well.

I understand that DVC is in the business of selling NEW points, but would also see that they would not want to devalue one of the existing resorts for several reasons, especially if the resort next door was selling for more.

Again, I see no devaluation in such a change, if anything, I see it as an enhancement, your view is obviously different. If you're suggesting there is an underlying sales agenda between this or other reallocations, I think we'll have to take up arms and stand opposed. Sales is DVD, management is DVCMC, they are different with different expectations and responsibilities legally and otherwise. I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories in this regard, if I did, I'd sell out tomorrow.