DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Limited and delayed communication seems to be an ingrained timeshare thing. My guess is it's purposeful and falls along the line of "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" though I personally disagree with that approach to a degree. It is my opinion that one can give appropriate and timely communication (but not too much in advance) and everyone would be happier.

I bought into DVC because it WASN'T like other TIMESHARES!!

 

[Dean]

I bought into DVC because it WASN'T like other TIMESHARES!!

While there are some differences, as all timeshares differ from one another to a degree, DVC is far more like other timeshares than it is not. Other than having on property options and a particularly flexible points system, I really don't see much difference in DVC, Marriott, Bluegreen, Wyndham, etc.

 

[lisareniff]

I decided to look through the changes they made between the 2009 and 2010 charts. I think one thing DVC my do in next years change is finish the reallocation they started but hit the 20% max ceiling.

Places where DVC hit the max reallocation in 2010 were and where there may be more change to come (generally speaking)..

The hardest hit...
VB - Everything
OKW - all but GV's
BWV - all Standard View and some PV studios

Others are sporadic or maybe max'ed because the point amounts (studios) are so small to begin with a 20% max may be 1 point.

VWL - 1bdrm in adv. and choice
ALV - Studios in adv and choice
BLT - Std view studios Adventure-Dream
SSR - Studios Choice-Magic & 1bdrm Choice
BCV - studios Dream-Premier & 2bdrm Premier
HHI - Choice Season all but 2bdrm & 2bdrm Adventure

It's a little late so I may have gotten a couple wrong here or there.

 

[lisareniff]

I was explaining this to my husband and I had a question....

What needs to remain constant in a reallocation?
The total of all points for all the units for all the days of a year? (the whole resort)
The total points for one villa for the year?
The total points for one unit for the year?

Our guess is for the unit or grouping of villas that were declared and sold as a unit. This may in effect constrain it to be constant for a villa since different units had different numbers of villas and it would be impossible to have a coherent point chart otherwise.

 

[Dean]

I was explaining this to my husband and I had a question....

What needs to remain constant in a reallocation?
The total of all points for all the units for all the days of a year? (the whole resort)
The total points for one villa for the year?
The total points for one unit for the year?

Our guess is for the unit or grouping of villas that were declared and sold as a unit. This may in effect constrain it to be constant for a villa since different units had different numbers of villas and it would be impossible to have a coherent point chart otherwise.

If I recall the legal wording correctly it's the total points for a year for each UNIT. A unit is generally a group of rooms such as a building at OKW. Other than a few 3 BR units like at AKV and VB, I don't believe any units are single rooms. There isn't a formal definition of what is the "same" or how much latitude they have. With the reallocation, some wanted to say if it was even 1 point different for the year that it was not the same though that is unrealistic IMO. I'm betting that they did not meet that definition with the reallocation if you look unit by unit and actually used the total for the year for the entire resort. They also use a specific year as the comparison called the "base year" which also isn't defined but is likely the years c/w 1992 since that was the first full year of DVC's existence. I'd also assume they've used the same based year since for all resorts.

 

[lisareniff]

Thanks Dean. I didn't even think about what year/UY.

So far they have reallocated between weekend and weekday and we have also talked about reallocation between seasons as a possibility.
Is there any possibility of there being a reallocation between room types (i.e. GV's less points and studios more)? If keeping the number of point needed for a unit constant is correct, it doesn't seem like this is possible unless units were the same. Unless this was the case with SSR, I don't think it is true with any of the other resorts.

 

[LisaS]

If I recall the legal wording correctly it's the total points for a year for each UNIT. A unit is generally a group of rooms such as a building at OKW. Other than a few 3 BR units like at AKV and VB, I don't believe any units are single rooms.

In Jambo House, there are units that consist of just one GV. There are also units that consist only of 3, 4 or 6 dedicated studios. The remaining units are either a dedicated studio plus a 2BR or a couple of 2BRs. If the points for a Unit cannot change, then they cannot change the points for a year for a GV or a dedicated studio. At one time the dedicated studios were a separate booking category but some time back they did away with those categories. Based on that, if the points for a studio (dedicated or lockoff) cannot change then the points for a 1BR cannot change either otherwise the units consisting of one dedicated studio and one 2BR villa would change. So for Jambo House, it would appear that the points for any room type for the entire year cannot change.

 

[Chuck S]

There should be something in the POS for each resort that would detail either the points needed, or consecutive days you could stay with X number of points at maximum re-allocation. At least there is in my 1991 POS. It shows how many consecutive days for each room type you could stay with a 230 point contract (the minimum at the time). From that, you could calculate a very close approximation as to a final maximum reallocation point chart for the resort.

I don't have my POS handy, as I am at WDW now. But I seem to recall a maximum reallocation at OKW would be studios 15 points per night. The GVs, if I remember, were in the 60 to 65 points per night range. I don't recall the others right now.

 

[lisareniff]

At one time the dedicated studios were a separate booking category but some time back they did away with those categories.

Glad to hear they corrected that problem.

 

[TLSnell1981]

So, I guess we're still waiting for the point charts?

Well, since we'd like to take the family for a pre-Christmas vacation...I'm guessing the points will skyrocket for that time period. I seem to have that kind of luck.

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean. I didn't even think about what year/UY.

So far they have reallocated between weekend and weekday and we have also talked about reallocation between seasons as a possibility.
Is there any possibility of there being a reallocation between room types (i.e. GV's less points and studios more)? If keeping the number of point needed for a unit constant is correct, it doesn't seem like this is possible unless units were the same. Unless this was the case with SSR, I don't think it is true with any of the other resorts.

I think there was some adjustment between units types this last time, at least at OKW, in favor of 3 BR being lower overall and much of that was an adjustment between seasons to a degree. I think the reference to additional changes relating to seasons would be for early Dec, making it at least Dream season and possibly Magic season. Raising the part that's adventure to choice really is a very small change and not enough to affect the behavior I suspect. I could even see them eliminating adventure overall and going to 4 seasons instead of 5.

In Jambo House, there are units that consist of just one GV. There are also units that consist only of 3, 4 or 6 dedicated studios. The remaining units are either a dedicated studio plus a 2BR or a couple of 2BRs. If the points for a Unit cannot change, then they cannot change the points for a year for a GV or a dedicated studio. At one time the dedicated studios were a separate booking category but some time back they did away with those categories. Based on that, if the points for a studio (dedicated or lockoff) cannot change then the points for a 1BR cannot change either otherwise the units consisting of one dedicated studio and one 2BR villa would change. So for Jambo House, it would appear that the points for any room type for the entire year cannot change.

That's why I referenced AKV specifically and why I said that my recollection was by unit but I suspected they did it by resort. To be honest, I haven't looked at the POS for this issue for AKV, only OKW and BWV in the past so the wording could be different because at OKW it's by building and at BWV it's by floor and section I believe.

So, I guess we're still waiting for the point charts?

Well, since we'd like to take the family for a pre-Christmas vacation...I'm guessing the points will skyrocket for that time period. I seem to have that kind of luck.

I tend to have that kind of luck also, that's why I try to control the things I can avoiding luck as much as possible. Interesting I've always been very unlucky in such things but very lucky in life. Not to mention having a great family and life, I've had 3 near death experiences without a scratch (rattlesnake encounter, didn't go on a plane trip that crashed and killed 3, spent 2 hours during the ATL olympics at ground zero for the bomb finishing 2 hours before it went off).

 

[Chuck S]

I tend to have that kind of luck also, that's why I try to control the things I can avoiding luck as much as possible. Interesting I've always been very unlucky in such things but very lucky in life. Not to mention having a great family and life, I've had 3 near death experiences without a scratch (rattlesnake encounter, didn't go on a plane trip that crashed and killed 3, spent 2 hours during the ATL olympics at ground zero for the bomb finishing 2 hours before it went off).

I'm glad your rattlesnake encounter ended better than mine. 28 vials of antivenom, and some permanent nerve damage. But still, it could've been worse. At least I'm still here.

 

[Dean]

I'm glad your rattlesnake encounter ended better than mine. 28 vials of antivenom, and some permanent nerve damage. But still, it could've been worse. At least I'm still here.

Stepped on it. I was a teenager, by myself, a mile off a dirt road, in the woods fishing, on a bicycle and didn't get bit. God must have looked down and said "if he's that stupid, I'm not going to add anything else to his plate right now". A few years ago I had a patient who had a similar issue as you except I think he was at 114 vials of antivenom if IRCC. Similar issue with nerve muscle damage in one leg but very functional and you wouldn't have known it if he didn't tell you.

 

[ShellyLynn3630]

I'm glad your rattlesnake encounter ended better than mine. 28 vials of antivenom, and some permanent nerve damage. But still, it could've been worse. At least I'm still here.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Stepped on it. I was a teenager, by myself, a mile off a dirt road, in the woods fishing, on a bicycle and didn't get bit. God must have looked down and said "if he's that stupid, I'm not going to add anything else to his plate right now". A few years ago I had a patient who had a similar issue as you except I think he was at 114 vials of antivenom if IRCC. Similar issue with nerve muscle damage in one leg but very functional and you wouldn't have known it if he didn't tell you.

I ended up lucky similar to you Dean just this past summer although I didn't get as far as stepping on the snake. Took a horse out for a walk (ie, I was on the ground leading) on a trail thru the sagebrush several blocks from our home. Just in running shoes and had shorts on. Got a rattle from a bush that was a foot from my leg and jumped so fast the horse didn't know what was going on. No cell phone on me of course and only a bucky little horse for transport home. Thankfully not required but we didn't walk that way again until it got cold. 20+years of living in the area with lots of horseback riding and hiking - even on "rattlesnake hill" and it was my first encounter. I'm hoping for another 20+ free years but our neighbor had one in their barn 2 summers ago so I may not get my wish.

 

[RobDoc]

I think there was some adjustment between units types this last time, at least at OKW, in favor of 3 BR being lower overall and much of that was an adjustment between seasons to a degree. I think the reference to additional changes relating to seasons would be for early Dec, making it at least Dream season and possibly Magic season. Raising the part that's adventure to choice really is a very small change and not enough to affect the behavior I suspect. I could even see them eliminating adventure overall and going to 4 seasons instead of 5.

That's why I referenced AKV specifically and why I said that my recollection was by unit but I suspected they did it by resort. To be honest, I haven't looked at the POS for this issue for AKV, only OKW and BWV in the past so the wording could be different because at OKW it's by building and at BWV it's by floor and section I believe.

OKW definitely defines a "unit" as an individual building, but not all buildings have GVs - so if lowering the GVs is what allows the other villa types to be raised, the buildings ("units") without GVs would not be balanced. I think any reallocation will be by resort only, based on the total number of points at the resort itself. Certainly OKW has been reallocated twice now (as of January, 2009) and in both cases the points for GVs were lowered.

 

[wdrl]

If the points for a Unit cannot change, then they cannot change the points for a year for a GV or a dedicated studio. Based on that, if the points for a studio (dedicated or lockoff) cannot change then the points for a 1BR cannot change either otherwise the units consisting of one dedicated studio and one 2BR villa would change. So for Jambo House, it would appear that the points for any room type for the entire year cannot change.

You are right that the number of points allotted to a Unit cannot change. However, A Unit's points is based solely on the square footage of a Unit and is unrelated to the Unit's booking costs. For example, at BLT all declared Units that contain a single two-bedroom villa are allotted 19,640 points, declared Units with two two-bedroom villas are allotted 39,280 points, and declared Units with a GV have 34,975 points. DVD can never change the points allotted to these Units. In addition, when more BLT Units are declared by DVD, they must adhere to the same formula. Thus, DVD cannot "add" more points to BLT by saying in future declarations that a Unit containing a single two-bedroom villa is now worth 25,000 points.

Since a Unit's points is based on its size, it doesn't matter whether it is categorized as a Standard View, a Lake View, or MK View. A Unit with an MK View will cost more to book than the same sized Unit that has a Standard View even though they are both allotted the same 19,640 or 39,280 points.

Bottom line is that I believe that Disney can legally change the booking cost for any accommodation and/or view category. There are only two restraints that Disney has to follow: The total points it takes to book all accommodations for the entire UY cannot exceed the point limit (which I estimate to be 5,825,540 points), and the booking guarantees specified in the Declaration of Condominium, such as in BLT's case which guarantees that owners can book one night in a studio for each 16 points they own.

 

[Dean]

OKW definitely defines a "unit" as an individual building, but not all buildings have GVs - so if lowering the GVs is what allows the other villa types to be raised, the buildings ("units") without GVs would not be balanced. I think any reallocation will be by resort only, based on the total number of points at the resort itself. Certainly OKW has been reallocated twice now (as of January, 2009) and in both cases the points for GVs were lowered.

Certainly every re-allocation will have to be by resort. I'm sure that's whey you now see some small variations between unit types at different resorts that were previously identical (BCV, BWV preferred). It must be a nightmare working out all the numbers, double and triple checking it. In the case of OKW the units are not the same even if they are an entire building, they vary by number and type of villas. In that case any re-allocation would have to be either primarily or by default "per unit".

 

[TLSnell1981]

I tend to have that kind of luck also, that's why I try to control the things I can avoiding luck as much as possible. Interesting I've always been very unlucky in such things but very lucky in life. Not to mention having a great family and life, I've had 3 near death experiences without a scratch (rattlesnake encounter, didn't go on a plane trip that crashed and killed 3, spent 2 hours during the ATL olympics at ground zero for the bomb finishing 2 hours before it went off).

OT...Are you, by chance, related to the Felis catus?

 

[Dean]

OT...Are you, by chance, related to the Felis catus?

No, don't even care for cats.