DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

[ford91exploder]

Or a waitlist that put you into any available accomodations by size.

Precisely my point.

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

It would be nice if waitlists and the calendar were more transparent. Show how many rooms are available on the calendar and how many people are on the waitlist.

 

[Sandisw]

It would be nice if waitlists and the calendar were more transparent. Show how many rooms are available on the calendar and how many people are on the waitlist.

The problem with waitlist information is there isn't really a list that would be easy to create. Waitlists are like multiple lists because it is based on what someone wants and how rooms become available. So, not sure giving a total for any one night makes a lot of sense. Some people might be waitlisted for just that one night, or some people might have it in a 2 night stay, 3 night stay, etc.

Since they don't hold rooms, where someone is doesn't really matter. You can be first on the waitlist for your dates, but if rooms show up for less nights, you get skipped anyway.

 

[Lorana]

DVCMC can also create breakage at any point in the use year if analysis shows points are ‘unlikely’ to be rented by members. You can see where this clause allows for mischief at the expense of members. There is no third party review of the analysis

ive suspected for a long time that Disney intentionally creates breakage. How many times have you tried to book something like a 1/2 br between 11 and 7 months. And there is always a day missing during the week

I’m having that same issue now. Been trying to book a 1BR Savannah View at AKV Jambo over February Vacation week. But Sunday night is not available (and has not been for over a month, and even now we’re still 8 months out) yet it’s available for cash through Disney.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m having that same issue now. Been trying to book a 1BR Savannah View at AKV Jambo over February Vacation week. But Sunday night is not available (and has not been for over a month, and even now we’re still 8 months out) yet it’s available for cash through Disney.

I think we need to also remember that DVC is an owner like the rest of us and can take rooms for cash for any points they still have which has nothing to do with brekage.

They also have all those rooms available that are taken when people trade out for cruises, etc.

So, just because you see no rooms for points but do for cash does not mean it’s a room creating breakage income.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think we need to also remember that DVC is an owner like the rest of us and can take rooms for cash for any points they still have which has nothing to do with brekage.

They also have all those rooms available that are taken when people trade out for cruises, etc.

So, just because you see no rooms for points but do for cash does not mean it’s a room creating breakage income.

Here's the problem, Why are there so many weeks between the 11 and 7 month window with a single day missing from availability and why is it always the middle of the week, A saturday or sunday would still be irritating but can be worked around and one would expect that those would be the unavailable days but they are not, It seems this 'missing day' is intended to create breakage not in response to normal patterns of usage. And as you note Disney does have rooms for cash for reasons clearly documented in the owners agreement.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

It seems this 'missing day' is intended to create [emphasis added] breakage not in response to normal patterns of usage.

I can't speak to whether it's intentional or not, but I suppose having a missing day in the middle of the week does prevent many people from being able to book and could end up creating breakage.

I imagine that there's technically still availability if you're willing to move to a different resort for one night in the middle of the week and then back again (assuming that wait-listing the missing night is unsuccessful). But how many people are willing to do that? Are they more likely to hold off on booking and then they get into a pinch when their points are going to expire and there are no full weeks available anywhere?

 

[ford91exploder]

I can't speak to whether it's intentional or not, but I suppose having a missing day in the middle of the week does prevent many people from being able to book and could end up creating breakage.

I imagine that there's technically still availability if you're willing to move to a different resort for one night in the middle of the week and then back again (assuming that wait-listing the missing night is unsuccessful). But how many people are willing to do that? Are they more likely to hold off on booking and then they get into a pinch when their points are going to expire and there are no full weeks available anywhere?

I'm guessing that for the no full weeks issue, some are doing a split stay, some are doing DVC,cash,DVC, some are just shortening vacation and some are just throwing their hands up in disgust. It's disheartening to see one of the former leaders in customer service adopt so many customer unfriendly policies and procedures. But I guess that's what happens with ME generation executives in a business that generates oceans of cash daily.


Realistically I'm not qualified to gauge intent either, but it sure seems like it's intentional, I can see Fri,Sat,Sun being blocked out by people wanting a weekend getaway but middle of the week just seems like it's intended to discourage a booking especially when you have gone through everything from SSR to GFV and they ALL have a missing day just a different one, Eventually you waitlist and if your waitlist fails you are gonna have a bad day (month) with the family because I'm in professional services I need to file vacation and vacation cancellations a minimum 60 days (the cancellation window is so someone who has a pending request can get my unused window) in advance so as to ensure we have coverage for clients company is pretty good about vacation time (pre-covid) but client coverage is key. It was stuff like this which was one of the deciding factors in selling DVC

 

[Sandisw]

Here's the problem, Why are there so many weeks between the 11 and 7 month window with a single day missing from availability and why is it always the middle of the week, A saturday or sunday would still be irritating but can be worked around and one would expect that those would be the unavailable days but they are not, It seems this 'missing day' is intended to create breakage not in response to normal patterns of usage. And as you note Disney does have rooms for cash for reasons clearly documented in the owners agreement.

Not sure why it matters. If those nights were legally booked by DVC with all their points, at 11 months or less, then it’s their right to do so just like the rest of us,

Now, when days disappear before the 11 month window, different story, But, DVC has points at every resort so if they want to take a room, they can..

 

[Leight19]

I'm guessing that for the no full weeks issue, some are doing a split stay, some are doing DVC,cash,DVC, some are just shortening vacation and some are just throwing their hands up in disgust. It's disheartening to see one of the former leaders in customer service adopt so many customer unfriendly policies and procedures. But I guess that's what happens with ME generation executives in a business that generates oceans of cash daily.


Realistically I'm not qualified to gauge intent either, but it sure seems like it's intentional, I can see Fri,Sat,Sun being blocked out by people wanting a weekend getaway but middle of the week just seems like it's intended to discourage a booking especially when you have gone through everything from SSR to GFV and they ALL have a missing day just a different one, Eventually you waitlist and if your waitlist fails you are gonna have a bad day (month) with the family because I'm in professional services I need to file vacation and vacation cancellations a minimum 60 days (the cancellation window is so someone who has a pending request can get my unused window) in advance so as to ensure we have coverage for clients company is pretty good about vacation time (pre-covid) but client coverage is key. It was stuff like this which was one of the deciding factors in selling DVC

I tend to always assume the worst of dvc leadership but to me this seems like it would not be an effective way to increase breakage. Id assume most people would either book split stay (which would increase cleaning costs) or change dates before they just let the points expire. I do agree at first glance the booking pattern is not what I would expect but it could be sign the point chart difference between weekdays and weekends have effected booking patterns.

Many resorts have weekend cost high enough to dissuade me staying during weekends. This actually makes it fairly common for my family to stay 10 to 12 nights with only 2 weekend days to get lowest points per night (especially since this also translates to cheaper flights).

 

[New Mouse]

Not sure why it matters. If those nights were legally booked by DVC with all their points, at 11 months or less, then it’s their right to do so just like the rest of us,

Now, when days disappear before the 11 month window, different story, But, DVC has points at every resort so if they want to take a room, they can..

So its ok for Disney to.use their advantage to create other advantages? You also seemed to think it was ok for Disney to manipulate point charts to their financial gain as well.

 

[ford91exploder]

I’m having that same issue now. Been trying to book a 1BR Savannah View at AKV Jambo over February Vacation week. But Sunday night is not available (and has not been for over a month, and even now we’re still 8 months out) yet it’s available for cash through Disney.

amazing how stuff like this happens although with it being a Sunday if it were me id book the rest of the week. And try to get the sunday separately and once/if you get it have MS link or combine. Alternatively a plan B would be a stay at the airport hotel for Sunday or universal cabana bay for one night.

that said Fri/Sat/Sun even though more expensive may be all the time some people can get away. If you are in IT like me forget about vacations this year and probably next year as well as companies furiously update systems to allow for hybrid work. We’ve actually closed some development centers (kept all the peeps though) because working at home makes for happy efficient developers.

 

[Sandisw]

So its ok for Disney to.use their advantage to create other advantages? You also seemed to think it was ok for Disney to manipulate point charts to their financial gain as well.

I never said they can do that, I simply said that the moves for the chart fell within what I believe are allowable guidelines of the contract and I am entitled to that opinion,

In terms of this, there is nothing that says they are doing this to create breakage, That is simply an assumption made because some want a reason to believe DVC is up to no good In every decision. There are lots of ways rooms can show up for cash that are not available for points, including other owners who decided to trade out and DVC is allowed to take those rooms to rent to cover the trade.

Regardless, as an owner, they have every right to book with the points they own and I simply do not agree with the notion that doing so is wrong, unless they reserve those rooms outside the legal rules. Not sure what advantage you are referring to

No different than owners who spec rent, walk, etc. All within the rules.

 

[New Mouse]

I never said they can do that, I simply said that the moves for the chart fell within what I believe are allowable guidelines of the contract and I am entitled to that opinion,

In terms of this, there is nothing that says they are doing this to create breakage, That is simply an assumption made because some want a reason to believe DVC is up to no good In every decision. There are lots of ways rooms can show up for cash that are not available for points, including other owners who decided to trade out and DVC is allowed to take those rooms to rent to cover the trade.

Regardless, as an owner, they have every right to book with the points they own and I simply do not agree with the notion that doing so is wrong, unless they reserve those rooms outside the legal rules. Not sure what advantage you are referring to

No different than owners who spec rent, walk, etc. All within the rules.

I disagree as they have a different rule set and take advantage of it.

Yes, there is nothing saying they are doing this to create breakage, but I think by this point people would realize most of their moves are with very direct intent.

 

[ford91exploder]

I disagree as they have a different rule set and take advantage of it.

Yes, there is nothing saying they are doing this to create breakage, but I think by this point people would realize most of their moves are with very direct intent.

The problem here is an imbalance of power, Disney has all the power in this relationship Even the condo association is all senior Disney Executives, Technically they are independent but if Chapek or Iger says I want you to do this naturally they are gonna do what the boss says as that's how they got to where they are in the company. You have very few strong executives in American business.

Im reminded of the Babylon5 episode where Garabaldi becomes CEO of Edgers Industries on Mars, He calls all the companies 'troublemakers' into a conference, They assume they are going to be fired but are shocked when Garabaldi says I want you to run the company because you know what needs to be fixed and how to fix it, weak compliant management was how the company got into trouble. It's your job to get us out.

I remember early in my career working on a team where the VP's executive secretary actually made all the decisions, could have fired the VP and kept her and the place would have been much more profitable

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Not sure why it matters. If those nights were legally booked by DVC with all their points, at 11 months or less, then it’s their right to do so just like the rest of us,

Now, when days disappear before the 11 month window, different story, But, DVC has points at every resort so if they want to take a room, they can..

It would matter IF it were being done and comes under ethics vs what is allowed by the rules.

I would have a difficult time believing they were taking this action as it's a terribly complicated way to use their ownership or the other buckets of points from trades etc. However it would ethically be inappropriate because blocking one day consistently in the middle of a week in a system that has acknowledged that the most common length of stay is 7 nights would have no other reason other than to disrupt that system.

 

[drusba]

Not clear on the particular single day disappearance issue being mentioned above. As I have generally tracked reservations since online reserving began about 9 years ago, be aware that a phenomenon sometimes seen for a variety of rooms has been the filling of a single day in a week not long before 7-months out (and there is no special event scheduled for the date, such as Moonlight Magic or the Oct 1 beginning of the 50th which results in many Florida DVC Members booking the single night well in advance). What I have seen is not likely the result of DVC reserving rooms for a single night. If you continue to watch the same weekly period of time for a few weeks, other days around the filled one will also usually start to disappear.

All that is happening is that one of the days of the week is filling before the others while the others around it are also getting close to filling. It is mainly a factor of the particular day reaching a point where it has fewer check-outs than check-ins for the day, while the other days have not yet reached that point. It seldom happens that a Fri or Sat fills first because those days have somewhat lower demand due to higher point costs. It usually also does not happen with a Sunday, a day when there are usually both a lot of check-ins and a lot of check-outs, except when the weekend is a holiday weekend, like Presidents' Day weekend. Most common days for it to occur are Wed or Thurs, likely because those are lower check-out days than others but have significant check-ins for those coming for the weekend or for events for the weekend, e.g., the Wed or Thur before a race weekend often disappears before other days in that week.

 

[DougEMG]

It would matter IF it were being done and comes under ethics vs what is allowed by the rules.

I would have a difficult time believing they were taking this action as it's a terribly complicated way to use their ownership or the other buckets of points from trades etc. However it would ethically be inappropriate because blocking one day consistently in the middle of a week in a system that has acknowledged that the most common length of stay is 7 nights would have no other reason other than to disrupt that system.

Could DVC use their points (legally) to cause holes in booking blocks in order to generate higher breakage, sure, but I also don't believe they would be stupid enough to do this. It would eventually come out that this was happening and would cause such a huge lose of consumer confidence in their product that no sane manager would ever approve such actions.

 

[Sandisw]

It would matter IF it were being done and comes under ethics vs what is allowed by the rules.

I would have a difficult time believing they were taking this action as it's a terribly complicated way to use their ownership or the other buckets of points from trades etc. However it would ethically be inappropriate because blocking one day consistently in the middle of a week in a system that has acknowledged that the most common length of stay is 7 nights would have no other reason other than to disrupt that system.

That’s a fair point.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

It is mainly a factor of the particular day reaching a point where it has fewer check-outs than check-ins for the day, while the other days have not yet reached that point.

This is what I was thinking about the other day, but I didn't have time to wrap my mind around how the math and logistics might result in this phenomenon.