DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

Wouldn't this be just like how AKL does it? points stay the same unless they make a new category. But Lake View/ Standard view should be the same points across the board.
Except I don't believe that Kidani was added later to the condo association. I believe that AKV was always designed to be a mix of Jambo and Kidani, so they didn't "create new points". The only place this has been done is at SSR with the Treehouses.
 
I have brought this up on the VGF thread as well, but I thought I'd also bring it up here since there are so many knowledgable folks on this thread.

How will the addition of new points into the existing VGF condo association affect those of us original VGF owners. I worry that by DVD adding additional points to the resort, it could devalue my original ownership, especially if they make the new "Resort Studios" have a higher point value, but allow those that purchase into the new building to access the original VGF inventory at 11 months. Essentially, it would create a LOT of competition for those original 47 studios. To me, that is not "enhancing" my membership...
I don’t own vgf but this is first issue I thought of as well. Dvc seems to be motivated more by profit then acting in best interest of owners and having higher point cost means they can sell more points. I guess it’s nice that shortage of studios in general goes down but current owners will have more problems competing for 1br and 2br with extra points in system and if the costs are higher at new studios, would likely need to spend more points for studios that are available. Combined with potential impact on resale prices, I would not be happy with this proposal if I was a vgf owner.

However, as owner in another resort this does have benefits as I imagine it will make 7mo studios more available.
That's completely backwards.

100% of the added inventory is studios. Less than 100% of the new owners will be staying in those studios. Some will book 1BR, 2RB, or 3BR GV from the original inventory. Others will stay at other resorts. This addition is going to make VGF studios MUCH easier to book.

Your access to the new studios will more than offset any increased competition for the legacy studios.
 
That's completely backwards.

100% of the added inventory is studios. Less than 100% of the new owners will be staying in those studios. Some will book 1BR, 2RB, or 3BR GV from the original inventory. Others will stay at other resorts. This addition is going to make VGF studios MUCH easier to book.

Your access to the new studios will more than offset any increased competition for the legacy studios.
The discussion is not about access to studios, per se, its about if DVD decides to make the NEW studios a higher point cost than the existing VGF studios. Then, if the existing VGF studios are cheaper, it is probable that, similar to BWV standard view, they will be the first to go if they are a lower point cost, thus there will likely be a higher demand for those original VGF studio units.

Now, if DVD keeps the same point structure, then that would be a moot point, and yes, it would make all studios easier to book.
 
I have brought this up on the VGF thread as well, but I thought I'd also bring it up here since there are so many knowledgeable folks on this thread.

How will the addition of new points into the existing VGF condo association affect those of us original VGF owners. I worry that by DVD adding additional points to the resort, it could devalue my original ownership, especially if they make the new "Resort Studios" have a higher point value, but allow those that purchase into the new building to access the original VGF inventory at 11 months. Essentially, it would create a LOT of competition for those original 47 studios. To me, that is not "enhancing" my membership...
The short answer is WE DON'T KNOW, and won't until after all the details are released by the Developer. That won't happen until sales actually begin.

Everything you read here on the DIS regarding the new studios at VGF is speculation & opinion.

Try not to worry about it until you know for sure. Unless you are willing and able to sell your contract right now, there's nothing that an individual can do now anyway.
 

The short answer is WE DON'T KNOW, and won't until after all the details are released by the Developer. That won't happen until sales actually begin.

Everything you read here regarding the new studios at VGF is speculation & opinion.

Try not to worry about it until you know for sure. Unless you are willing and able to sell our contract right now, there's nothing that an individual can do now anyway.
Carol, I agree we don't know, and quite honestly, it could very well be a net positive for existing owners. I think that the interesting thing to me is that they've kept it in the existing condo association. That leads me to believe that these units will have a similar point structure to the existing VGF studios, otherwise, why not just create a separate condo association and save the headache.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out though, as it opens up a lot of possibilities. Could they do this at other locations?

All I am saying is that it bears watching... That said, if done right, I would definitely consider adding on...
 
How will the addition of new points into the existing VGF condo association affect those of us original VGF owners. I worry that by DVD adding additional points to the resort, it could devalue my original ownership...

When I originally bought my home, the back yard faced an empty field where I could play catch with the kids and enjoy beautiful sunsets. More recently the property has been developed, so now I'm looking at several neighbors' back yards.

Did the loss of the empty field "devalue" my property? Perhaps. Was it improper on the part of the developer? No, of course not.

...especially if they make the new "Resort Studios" have a higher point value, but allow those that purchase into the new building to access the original VGF inventory at 11 months. Essentially, it would create a LOT of competition for those original 47 studios. To me, that is not "enhancing" my membership...

I don't see DVC making the new rooms more expensive simply because they can. VGF already has the most expensive studios at Walt Disney World. I expect a higher priced theme park view category for a handful of rooms. But if the new studios go even higher in price for Standard and Lake views, there will have to be a reason for it. And hopefully that reason will also goose demand.

Still, fretting over "what if" scenarios isn't going to accomplish much until details are revealed.

Yeah, I am a bit surprised that they didn't take the CCV/BRV approach and create 2 different condo associations. Seems like it would have been cleaner to do that.

The only reason they created a separate condo association for CCV is because of the 2042 ending date for Boulder Ridge. DVC wouldn't have had much success selling Copper Creek points with 25 year contracts.

New VGF buyers will still get about 42-43 years, which is probably viewed as close enough to command current prices.
 
When I originally bought my home, the back yard faced an empty field where I could play catch with the kids and enjoy beautiful sunsets. More recently the property has been developed, so now I'm looking at several neighbors' back yards.

Did the loss of the empty field "devalue" my property? Perhaps. Was it improper on the part of the developer? No, of course not.
But, I bet when you bought your house, you knew the property behind you could be developed...
 
The discussion is not about access to studios, per se, its about if DVD decides to make the NEW studios a higher point cost than the existing VGF studios. Then, if the existing VGF studios are cheaper, it is probable that, similar to BWV standard view, they will be the first to go if they are a lower point cost, thus there will likely be a higher demand for those original VGF studio units.

Now, if DVD keeps the same point structure, then that would be a moot point, and yes, it would make all studios easier to book.
That's like saying the existence of Boardwalk View studios is what CAUSES Boardwalk Standard View studios to be high demand. I don't buy it.
 
That's like saying the existence of Boardwalk View studios is what CAUSES Boardwalk Standard View studios to be high demand. I don't buy it.
That is not saying that at all. What causes BWV Standard View to be in high demand is the lower point cost. What we were pointing out here is that if VGF1 studios are lower point cost than VGF2 studios, then they would be more in demand as well.

Of course, all of this is speculative, so we can wait and see what DVD actually does...
 
The broader problem is that Disney is negligent in their obligation to balance demand. When some rooms are impossible to get without walking at 11 months and other rooms are readily available at 4 months, something is wrong with the points charts.

Studios are too cheap and 1BR are too expensive, period. Fall is too cheap and Summer is too expensive, period. Premium views are too expensive and Standard views are too cheap, period. This is true at every single resort in the system except for maybe Grand Cali. Unfortunately, any time Disney tries to balance the points charts, the membership cries foul and has a collective meltdown.
 
But, I bet when you bought your house, you knew the property behind you could be developed...

Why wouldn't you consider the possibility that DVC would add on to its smallest development at WDW? A decade earlier they expanded SSR twice.

Whether it's taking over cash rooms or building anew, the possibilities are endless.
 
I have brought this up on the VGF thread as well, but I thought I'd also bring it up here since there are so many knowledgable folks on this thread.

How will the addition of new points into the existing VGF condo association affect those of us original VGF owners. I worry that by DVD adding additional points to the resort, it could devalue my original ownership, especially if they make the new "Resort Studios" have a higher point value, but allow those that purchase into the new building to access the original VGF inventory at 11 months. Essentially, it would create a LOT of competition for those original 47 studios. To me, that is not "enhancing" my membership...

The announcement states that the new 200 studio villas at VGF will be done as an addition to the original resort and not as a new separate resort. Such additions have been done before such as at OKW (new buildings with elevators) and SSR (the treehouses),

By stating the rooms will just be part of the original VGF resort creates legal restrictions that DVD will not be able to avoid, absent an amendment to the VGF POS that the existing members would actually have a right to vote on and approve. I doubt seriously that the amendment process will be attempted. However, there is always the chance that DVD will just ignore the rights of members and act illegally on purpose with the hope that nobody sues, like it did by adding Riviera as a DVC Resort with its resale restrictions, despite that the POS's of all the other existing resorts have provisions that require all members, including resale, to be able to reserve any all DVC Resorts, including any, such as Riviera, that are added to the DVC Reservation Component. However, if DVD was going to attempt that illegal action again, it would likely set up the new VGF as its own new resort.

Assuming it is true that the new studios will be part of the existing VGF DVC Resort and not a new resort, and DVD avoids any illegal tricks, then what will likely happen is as follows:

-- The opening price per point will be the same as whatever the price per point is for the existing VGF at the time the new rooms are first offered for sale Members should likely thus expect some VGF point price increases before the new rooms are offered. DVD could offer an opening discount off that price for purchases of the new units but the same offer would also apply to any sales of points for the existing VGF resort.

-- The new rooms will have the same 2064 expiration date as the exisiting VGF resort and be subject to the same resale restrictions that currently exist for other VGF owners -- resale owners will be able to reserve all existing resorts other than Riviera.

-- Points per night could differ for the new studios from the existing studios but the difference would require a valid basis for creating a new class of studios. To charge higher points, DVD would need the new rooms to either be bigger or better than the existing rooms, otherwise the per night points would need to be the same. As provided by the POS, two keys to determining points per night are the demand factors applicable to each season and the square footage of the rooms. At many resorts, 1BRs are close to double the size of studios and the nightly points for the 1BRs are close to double the studios. That difference results from the POS requirement to apply square footage as a key determinant of points per night. Many believe the points for 1BRs should be a lot closer to studios, but the difference cannot actually legally be changed by much because the POS makes square footage a key to determining nightly points. Thus, DVD could create larger studios and charge higher points. In fact, it could also create smaller studios which would require lower points

Moreover, even assuming like square footage, it is possible that DVD could create a new class of higher point per night studios for at least some of the 200 being added but something noticeable would need to be better. DVD could make the rooms internally better, such as by adding a separate second, full bathroom. Another possible difference could be view. VGF already has two view classifications that could be copied for the new resort. To create a new and higher point classification requires something better than what already exists in the preferred category. Possibly some of the rooms could have direct MK views (I do not know) and thus DVD could classify those as Theme Park view studios similar to BLT. However, I cannot currently think of any meaningful difference that would actually apply to all the new rooms and it sppears that many rooms in the designated building have no more than a pool view, which should put them in the standard view category. In any event, DVD would need to go the new DVC Resort route to legally make like-size, like make-up, and like view rooms cost more than the current VGF.

It is thus possible that at least some of the new studios could have a higher point per night cost and thus create some greater demand for the existing VGF studios, but that would be offsetted somewhat by the requirement that there be a valid reason for the difference in the new rooms, such as having Theme Park view or a larger room.
 
If they added a washer & a dryer, there would be plenty of justification to charge more points and probably alleviate much of the worry some have about increased demand for the "cheaper" studios in the existing building.
 
If they added a washer & a dryer, there would be plenty of justification to charge more points and probably alleviate much of the worry some have about increased demand for the "cheaper" studios in the existing building.

If a raise in points were intended, your suggestion that DVC add the w/d to the new studios would actually be the best "member-friendly" choice that could possibly be made, which, considering how the the modern DVC acts, is likely the last thing that will ever happen.
 
Why wouldn't you consider the possibility that DVC would add on to its smallest development at WDW? A decade earlier they expanded SSR twice.

Whether it's taking over cash rooms or building anew, the possibilities are endless.
So, following this logic Tim, we should assume that additions can and will eventually be made to Riviera, PVB, and BLT? Maybe they tear down all of Aruba at CBR and build "Mediterranean Villas" along the point lines of a CCV Cabin or PVB Bungalow. Something I don't think they'd do (but could under this logic), is renovate Yacht Club rooms as studios and include them in the BCV association (note: Don't think they would because of expiry date). Could they do it? Sure, but I bet it "could" open a can of worms...

I don't have an issue yet with the addition, provided it is done within consideration of the existing owners of VGF.
 
If a raise in points were intended, your suggestion that DVC add the w/d to the new studios would actually be the best "member-friendly" choice that could possibly be made, which, considering how the the modern DVC acts, is likely the last thing that will ever happen.
Your post made me sad because it’s true. I hope we’re wrong, though.
 
The announcement states that the new 200 studio villas at VGF will be done as an addition to the original resort and not as a new separate resort. Such additions have been done before such as at OKW (new buildings with elevators) and SSR (the treehouses),

By stating the rooms will just be part of the original VGF resort creates legal restrictions that DVD will not be able to avoid, absent an amendment to the VGF POS that the existing members would actually have a right to vote on and approve. I doubt seriously that the amendment process will be attempted. However, there is always the chance that DVD will just ignore the rights of members and act illegally on purpose with the hope that nobody sues, like it did by adding Riviera as a DVC Resort with its resale restrictions, despite that the POS's of all the other existing resorts have provisions that require all members, including resale, to be able to reserve any all DVC Resorts, including any, such as Riviera, that are added to the DVC Reservation Component. However, if DVD was going to attempt that illegal action again, it would likely set up the new VGF as its own new resort.

Assuming it is true that the new studios will be part of the existing VGF DVC Resort and not a new resort, and DVD avoids any illegal tricks, then what will likely happen is as follows:

-- The opening price per point will be the same as whatever the price per point is for the existing VGF at the time the new rooms are first offered for sale Members should likely thus expect some VGF point price increases before the new rooms are offered. DVD could offer an opening discount off that price for purchases of the new units but the same offer would also apply to any sales of points for the existing VGF resort.

-- The new rooms will have the same 2064 expiration date as the exisiting VGF resort and be subject to the same resale restrictions that currently exist for other VGF owners -- resale owners will be able to reserve all existing resorts other than Riviera.

-- Points per night could differ for the new studios from the existing studios but the difference would require a valid basis for creating a new class of studios. To charge higher points, DVD would need the new rooms to either be bigger or better than the existing rooms, otherwise the per night points would need to be the same. As provided by the POS, two keys to determining points per night are the demand factors applicable to each season and the square footage of the rooms. At many resorts, 1BRs are close to double the size of studios and the nightly points for the 1BRs are close to double the studios. That difference results from the POS requirement to apply square footage as a key determinant of points per night. Many believe the points for 1BRs should be a lot closer to studios, but the difference cannot actually legally be changed by much because the POS makes square footage a key to determining nightly points. Thus, DVD could create larger studios and charge higher points. In fact, it could also create smaller studios which would require lower points

Moreover, even assuming like square footage, it is possible that DVD could create a new class of higher point per night studios for at least some of the 200 being added but something noticeable would need to be better. DVD could make the rooms internally better, such as by adding a separate second, full bathroom. Another possible difference could be view. VGF already has two view classifications that could be copied for the new resort. To create a new and higher point classification requires something better than what already exists in the preferred category. Possibly some of the rooms could have direct MK views (I do not know) and thus DVD could classify those as Theme Park view studios similar to BLT. However, I cannot currently think of any meaningful difference that would actually apply to all the new rooms and it sppears that many rooms in the designated building have no more than a pool view, which should put them in the standard view category. In any event, DVD would need to go the new DVC Resort route to legally make like-size, like make-up, and like view rooms cost more than the current VGF.

It is thus possible that at least some of the new studios could have a higher point per night cost and thus create some greater demand for the existing VGF studios, but that would be offsetted somewhat by the requirement that there be a valid reason for the difference in the new rooms, such as having Theme Park view or a larger room.

Where is the reference to square footage being a determination in points? As often as I've read the POS (ok, maybe it's been a handful of times as it's not nightly reading material) I find there's things I've missed. And I don't quite understand that as a formula since 2BR's take up 3 times the space of studios but they are not 3 times the points.
 
The discussion is not about access to studios, per se, its about if DVD decides to make the NEW studios a higher point cost than the existing VGF studios. Then, if the existing VGF studios are cheaper, it is probable that, similar to BWV standard view, they will be the first to go if they are a lower point cost, thus there will likely be a higher demand for those original VGF studio units.

Now, if DVD keeps the same point structure, then that would be a moot point, and yes, it would make all studios easier to book.
VGF studios are already super expensive. I would be surprised if they raise the point cost with the new ones. If they do, however, you are right that it will be complete chaos.
 
But, I bet when you bought your house, you knew the property behind you could be developed...

I believe the POS allows for future development so adding rooms seems to be within the terms you bought under.
 
VGF studios are already super expensive. I would be surprised if they raise the point cost with the new ones. If they do, however, you are right that it will be complete chaos.
The main reason I think there could be more expensive charts is discussion in the main vgf thread that highlights the hotel rooms are larger then current dvc rooms. If they add in these larger rooms with same point charts this will be great addition. I’m skeptical it goes that way because would leave money on table for Disney and they have “justifiable” reason to do it if rooms are larger.
 
















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