DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

Studios always book up first.
Yet as I showed in my post #838 on page 42, DVC has reduced the total points required to book studios and raised the points required to book 1BR and 2BR at BCV over the past 11 years. That does not seem to be balancing demand based on historical booking patterns.

Also, total points required to book every unit at BCV for 365 days has increased over the past 11 years, which seems in direct violation of what we were told when we purchased that total points required to book every room in the resort for a year could never increase unless additional units were built.
 
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Does membership have a partnership with DVC, or is it one-sided.
Membership has a partnership with DVC in the sense that the members of the Board of Directors are all DVC owners. However, they're all also Disney employees, fairly high ranking DVC officials. Draw your own conclusion there.
 
Membership has a partnership with DVC in the sense that the members of the Board of Directors are all DVC owners. However, they're all also Disney employees, fairly high ranking DVC officials. Draw your own conclusion there.

No conflict of interest there, at all.
 


in all likelihood, we are grossly underestimating the income generated by breakage and that this annual income stream through the life of a timeshare resort likely eclipses any revenue stream beyond ROI of the traditional cash resort model over the life of the property
I agree with that we are underestimating it, but don't think it would eclipse the "total performance" of the property as a cash resort, because the original sales represent some discount over NPV of the total cash stream. (Or at least, it should---unless Disney's Reality Distorition Field is even stronger than I think.) It probably makes up for a good chunk of that discount, but I suspect it is not all of it---and that's in part based on the fact that Reflections was (planned as) mixed-use.
 
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Yet as I showed in my post #838 on page 42, DVC has reduced the total point required to book studios and raised the points required to book 1BR and 2BR at BCV over the past 11 years. That does not seem to be balancing demand based on historical booking patterns.

Anecdotally, there have been two problems with the point charts for many years now: the seasons failed to reflect changes in member booking patterns and the point balance between studio / 1b / 2b is out of whack. DVC has spent the last 2 years trying to correct the former. The POS has a stated limit that the cost of a given night cannot increase more than 20% per year. So when we've got many studio nights moving to higher priced seasons, some of those same nights cannot be further boosted in a rebalancing of S/1b/2b until further down the line.

2022 isn't the end game for point chart adjustments. DVC has confirmed as much. Sometimes you have to eat the elephant one bite at a time. If DVC now has all of the dates aligned as it deems necessary, it's more straightforward in the next round to move points among different villa sizes rather than combining those adjustments. (Assuming they plan to do so.)

If we're accusing DVC of negligence via inaction....well, that's a claim that could go back a decade or more. The seasons have been in need of adjustment long before there were bungalows, 100-pt contracts, high direct prices and many of the other factors that have contributed to the rise in studio demand. Did DVC have self-serving reasons for leaving October and November underpriced for so long?

The '22 charts are sloppy for sure. Whether that's due to carelessness or malicious intent is a conclusion people will have to draw for themselves.
 
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I'm too new to grasp all of this... for now, I'll absorb it through osmosis. But I am paying attention. Some will soak up. My question focuses on transparency. If true tweaking toward the Disney side occurs, what repercussions would DVC fear? I'm talking about jobs, etc. Does membership have a partnership with DVC, or is it one-sided. Without membership, there is no need for DVC management, so I would think the upper level would have some checks and balances.

DVCMC is an independent contractor hired by the board of each condo association.
 
As you know, when the new rate schedules were published this week, there were changes in the points/night across the board and massive changes in the number of nights in travel periods. To keep DVC honest, each year, when the new point schedules come out, I prepare an analysis of the last two year's point requirements to make sure there are no significant changes by resort. I thought I would share it with you.

By taking each accommodation and the two schedules, we can calculate the overall point requirement for 2021 and 2022. According to my analysis, DVC point schedules at DVC resorts accounted for 77,143,499 points in 2021 and 77,314,443 million in 2022. The overall difference was 170,944 points or 0.2%. The detail is on pages 2-6, and you can see for each resort the impact of these changes.

Because there were both changes in points/night and travel periods, I broke out the difference between the impact of rate/night changes and the travel period changes. 126,705 point increase was due rate/night changes and 44,239 for travel period changes.

I know DVC points are not supposed to vary by the resort from year to year, but there may be an acceptable percent targeted. The overall point schedules went up 0.2% year over year. However, almost all resorts total points went up slightly from the previous year.

The analysis color codes the point/night changes in the 2022 rate listings. A green number will indicate that the point charts for that accommodation went down year over year, and a red and underline will mean that the point chart went for that accommodation compared to last year.

For point balancing, Disney counts two-bedroom lock-offs as a single unit and ignores the studios and one-bedrooms that make it up. In this scenario, the studio and one-bedrooms can go up in nightly rate cost but not impact balancing. The initial 2020 point schedule had these unaccounted for increases but was later changed.

I did a second analysis, substituting the studio and one-bedroom accommodations instead of the lock-offs. Using this analysis, the calculated points were 81,390,174 points in 2022 and 81,447,812 in 2021, or a difference of 57,638. There seems to be no repeat of the issues of 2020.
This is just great. Thanks so much!
 
The analogy is flawed unless you’re talking 1911 when Henry Ford was the only dealer in town and you decide to stop buying his cars entirely.

For a “deluxe” near-park experience, Disney is the only show in town. Staying non-Disney, even on site at the Swolphin or Four Seasons, is a compromised choice. There is no other real economically-equivalent alternative to Disney’s timeshare.

My family still enjoys the theme parks and visiting multiple times per year. Disneys timeshare allows us to do it cost-effectively. To sell because we feel current management is acting in bad faith is a bit of cutting off our noses to spite our face. The product still has value to me and my family, regardless of how faithfully I feel current management is serving as a fiduciary.

Back in 2019, did you “trust” Disney did the right thing with the lock-off premium, claiming 1BRs were justifiably raised in cost because it was the highest in demand unit type, second only to studios?

If you didn’t believe this, why are you still an owner? Shouldn’t you have sold then? If you felt they did do the right thing, why do you suppose they reversed course and have never revisited that assertion again?

Your revised “wait and see” from when you originally wrote “no plans to sell” stance is a convenient hedge because it allows you to justify your continued ownership by proclaiming to have trust in the system. You let others do the work of raising issues with management, while you quietly benefit from Disney reversing course on poor policy that devalued your ownership share.

And while you sit on high, disparaging those who lack the moral integrity to disengage from someone they feel is untrustworthy, you hedge your bets, remaining faithful because, of course, you have that trust. Except you’ll book that 2020 room at a lowered rate courtesy of people you disparage who choose not to trust blindly, who choose not to sell, but instead choose to fight for what is the right way ownership should be treated.

All the meanwhile you’ll turn a blind eye to the possibility that maybe Disney isn’t as infallible as you need them to be in order to justify keeping your ownership. That’s not some higher moral integrity, that’s just cheap talk about hypothetical car dealers.
Actually it isn't flawed. You did not understand my point at all.
We live in a town where there is only one dealership for a certain model of car. Regardless of how much I like the product, once they have proved to me they are not trustworthy, I am done with them.

Oh good grief, it's a vacation. I simply think at times people here see problems where none exist. Who did I disparage, please share that. It's my opinion, yours can be different. I have been a member of this forum for almost 22 years, pretty sure I have not disparaged anyone during that time and didn't now. If anyone is disparaging anyone it is you to me. As to editing my comments, I posted while working at home online and in coming back later the first comment did not convey my thoughts completely.

My attitude is always wait and see. I am pleased with the service now, and have been for 21 years. That might change. I also think many on this forum are out of touch with the real DVC world. Not everyone sits around worrying about this kind of stuff, nor do they care to. I know in the 21 years of reading this forum there are some extremely knowledgeable people that truly know timeshare laws and some that act like they do.

Do I think Disney makes mistakes yes. If it comes to the point where I think they are not trustworthy, I can sell mine at any time and make a profit. I just happen to think that if someone at DVC is not being trustworthy, it will be found out and they will be let go. It has happened before.

So many of the complaints I see mentioned, such as valet parking, DVC did not have any control over that as Mears said going forward they were not offering the service. I for one am glad DVC decided to drop it instead of charging members. I would rather pay out of pocket than put that on all members. I just think at times members complain about what affects them personally and never look at the big picture as to whether the change was consistent with the POS. There is a lot they can do legally that will pinch the toes of some. Especially those that bought just enough points to stay in studios.

As most always I agree with TJ and definitely this statement:
The '22 charts are sloppy for sure. Whether that's due to carelessness or malicious intent is a conclusion people will have to draw for themselves.
 
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THis is actually what I believe occurred ahead of the 50th booking window. They jumped the 11-Month window and claimed it was due to "historic data".

Not to mention the wildly inflated amounts Disney claims is for Mousekeeping and Maintenance, I suspect that the DVC members are paying the entire tab for mousekeeping and maintenance at places like Contemporary/BLT, AKV why else is Disney so desperate to get DVC into all the FL resorts, including a rumored conversion of the 'Family Suites' into DVC units. It's great having DVC'ers pay for construction/maintenance/mousekeeping but magically unable to USE their points...
 
Yet as I showed in my post #838 on page 42, DVC has reduced the total point required to book studios and raised the points required to book 1BR and 2BR at BCV over the past 11 years. That does not seem to be balancing demand based on historical booking patterns.

Also, total points required to book every unit at BCV for 365 days has increased over the past 11 years, which seems in direct violation of what we were told when we purchased that total points required to book every room in the resort for a year could never increase unless additional units were built.

Or until Disney thought it was a great idea to devalue members interests by devaluing their points by creating points out of thin air, Not even coming up with a clever beard like declaring picnic tables a new 'unit'
 
DVCMC is an independent contractor hired by the board of each condo association.

DVCMC is an arm of Disney, not independent. If say Marriott were running the operations that would be independent. They are contracted by the associations. The associations could elect to hire someone else to manage the system but since the Boards are all Disney employees it's guaranteed that won't happen. Also several or maybe all of the officers of DVCMC are also officers of DVD. DVCMC is a separate operational division but that is all.
 
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DVCMC is an arm of Disney, not independent. If say Marriott were running the operations that would be independent. They are contracted by the associations. The associations could elect to hire someone else to manage the system but since the Boards are all Disney employees it's guaranteed that won't happen. Also several or maybe all of the officers of DVCMC are also officers of DVD. DVCMC is a separate operational division but that is all.

Well, I just got a copy of property management agreement and this is what that contract says.

The exact language from Bay Lake Tower says “Independent Contractors: The parties hereby agree and acknowledge that DVCMC is an independent contractor of the association. The association hereby releases any right of control over the method, manner, or means by which DVCMC performs its duties and responsibilities of this agreement.

That certainly implies the relationship between the association and DVCMC is one of an independent contractor.
 
Well, I just got a copy of property management agreement and this is what that contract says.

The exact language from Bay Lake Tower says “Independent Contractors: The parties hereby agree and acknowledge that DVCMC is an independent contractor of the association. The association hereby releases any right of control over the method, manner, or means by which DVCMC performs its duties and responsibilities of this agreement.

That certainly implies the relationship between the association and DVCMC is one of an independent contractor.

They are being untruthful then. They can employee DVCM as a contractor but referencing them as independent - it cannot be when they also are employees of other Disney divisions and owned by the same parent company. In their corporate info they do properly list DVD as a related company and even ABC as a related company so it's just that agreement that implies something that isn't correct.

Actually, as I'll take that back. The associations are not Disney owned although they do have a land lease with them. So yes, technically DVCM is independent of the association. But it's all far to inter-mixed to declare independent beyond a technicality.
 
She did say that they are working on revising the 2022 charts to reduce the total annual points back down to an acceptable level. She also asked for patience due to the complexity of revising all the charts throughout the 15 resorts at Walt Disney World.

Come on, this is high school level math. The delay is very curious at this point.
 

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