DVC Moderate Resort Being Reported by WDWNT

[Andrew015]

I'm not certain where your logic or numbers are coming from. The moderate resorts are typically priced at less than half that of the deluxe resorts. If the price per point was about the same as that of the deluxe resorts, but rooms averaged 1/3 fewer points per night -- which is reasonable given that the accommodations and amenities of new DVC villas at a CBR resort would be superior to those of the standard guest rooms -- the payback period would be better on deluxe resorts, not the moderate resorts. Ultimately, it's simply a marketing opportunity to offer a lower buy-in cost but most people will ultimately purchase additional points. Disney wins no matter what.

Disney wins until people stop buying the deluxe resorts, which would be the byproduct of your proposal. At the end of the day, people are buying into DVC to 1.) get on-property and the associated benefits thereof (proximity, transportation, etc.) and 2.) to hedge against inflation and lock-in the hotel portion of future Disney vacations. Truthfully, I don't believe that the majority is buying into the program to get "deluxe" accommodations, because let's face it... Disney's "deluxe" accommodations are not "deluxe" by any other timeshare's standard (especially at the price point). If a cheaper alternative existed that got people on-property, it would devastate the legacy program.

Again, I think such a program has merit once the deluxe's have been fully optimized. I don't think that's happened yet, and I also don't think Disney is ready to take a lesser margin on a Moderate program.

 

[ParkHoppers]

The ONLY way this happens is if they set up a second level of DVC...

There won't be a second level of DVC. CBR will be the only resort on this second level. Makes no sense.


...like that. And I just don't know that they would do it. Perhaps they do though - and "re-boot" the system.

As I said earlier - let's see what happens at the WLV 2.0 - by @ParkHoppers logic, the price of new DVC should peel back slightly there, because it certainly isn't as desirable as the Poly or VGF.

Not my logic as I forgot to mention I would put WLV right there with BWV and BCV. Let's not forget it is on Bay Lake and only a short boat ride from MK. Not to mention the grounds are beautiful at WLV. What does CBV have to justify these high points cost? I will agree they might get away with a fairly high point price and lower cost per night but that is in theory a lower cost DVC. I,ll stick with lower point cost and lower points per night. Location,location,location.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Great conversation/thread...they all should be like this...

(This is usually where I get called for hooking/slashing and head to the box)

But let's play my favorite game: Disney management should/could/will (queue cheesy theme music)

My opinions:

What they SHOULD do is price the points the same...but charge vastly less per night for accommodations at any new "second tier" properties like Caribbean. 6 for a studio.

What they COULD do is discount the points, charge slightly less and then do a lock into that type or charge more to exchange out than the old buyers. I.e. you can book Caribbean for 8...but instead of beach club at 14...it's gonna be 18 a night.

What they will do? It's gonna be upfront the same and then a poorly thought out plan to charge "slightly" less in points for Caribbean. "Only 10-11 a night for a studio". That's a disaster...mistakenly thinking your customer is "really dumb" as opposed to just "dumb" (that's the fact of the matter)

Does option 3 sound familiar? It's because it was called "Disneys Saratoga springs resort" the last time they tried it. Instead of the same points as OKW (correct) they made it a measly point or two less than beach, Boardwalk, wilderness. And it's bottlenecked the system ever since. They sold the points...but it just flushed all the rats (like me) out of the nest and Into the rest.

In fact, the next point chart was probably lower than it should have been - I believe in part to compensate - animal
Kingdom lodge...still the best or second best deal of the lot.

We'll see...but I would bet on option 3.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Disney wins until people stop buying the deluxe resorts, which would be the byproduct of your proposal. At the end of the day, people are buying into DVC to 1.) get on-property and the associated benefits thereof (proximity, transportation, etc.) and 2.) to hedge against inflation and lock-in the hotel portion of future Disney vacations. Truthfully, I don't believe that the majority is buying into the program to get "deluxe" accommodations, because let's face it... Disney's "deluxe" accommodations are not "deluxe" by any other timeshare's standard (especially at the price point). If a cheaper alternative existed that got people on-property, it would devastate the legacy program.

Again, I think such a program has merit once the deluxe's have been fully optimized. I don't think that's happened yet, and I also don't think Disney is ready to take a lesser margin on a Moderate program.

If Disney charged a similar per-point dollar amount for the moderates as the deluxe, how do you conclude they're taking a lesser margin? Charging less points per night makes sense, given that people already pay more than double for accommodations at the Contemporary, Polynesian, etc. than they do at the Caribbean Beach. Granted, Disney will almost undoubtedly build new facilities for a DVC at the CBR (converting the cheaply constructed, incumbent facilities likely wouldn't yield any cost savings) but it's not going to be to the scale of the Bay Lake Tower.

Your theory is based on the prospect of incumbent DVC members flocking to the CBR, which is false: It costs about $29K to buy into a one-week studio during "Magic Season" at the Polynesian, then an additional $1K annually in dues. If I wait for a promotional rate, I can stay at the CBR during the same time period for $1500 or less per week. That's LESS than the annual dues + interest (for most people) at the Polynesian. You still think people are buying the DVC because they're worried the CBR is suddenly going to jump to $600/night, and the Polly $1200/night?

People buy into DVC precisely because they view it as a vehicle into "affordable" Disney vacations at the deluxe properties. At the presentations I've attended, the sales person spent a great deal of time trying to show me how it lets me stay at deluxe properties for moderate prices. No doubt there will be some people who choose to redeem their points at the CBR, but ultimately Disney will lure people into the program who later buy more points so they can stay elsewhere besides the CBR.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Here's where I rank the orlando dvcs based on value/history:

1. OKW (cheap then, cheap now)
2. Boardwalk ( pretty cheap and top
Location)
3. Akv (the most amenity for the best price)
4. Beach, wilderness 1.0 (fair price and prime locations
5. Bay lake (escalating cost but great locations)
6. Saratoga (not great location, not great point chart)
7. Poly (new "bloated" reality)
8. GF (essentially worthless as part of the larger program...could be more useful if they add on or convert)

Now here's why wilderness 2.0 is a potential bell weather: it's exactly the same location/stuff as 1.0...at 3x the upfront cost.
That is gonna be a hard one to sell. Wilderness has always been a fan favorite at WDW... So the demand should be high, right?

Well...the reason they are building 2.0 is because they can't sell the rack rooms...overpriced it.

But the price won't matter on DVC sales, right?

Well...before the poly went on sale...o woulda agreed. But apparently there are limits there too. And overpricing.

 

[ParkHoppers]

If Disney charged a similar per-point dollar amount for the moderates as the deluxe, how do you conclude they're taking a lesser margin? Charging less points per night makes sense, given that people already pay more than double for accommodations at the Contemporary, Polynesian, etc. than they do at the Caribbean Beach. Granted, Disney will almost undoubtedly build new facilities for a DVC at the CBR (converting the cheaply constructed, incumbent facilities likely wouldn't yield any cost savings) but it's not going to be to the scale of the Bay Lake Tower.

Your theory is based on the prospect of incumbent DVC members flocking to the CBR, which is false: It costs about $29K to buy into a one-week studio during "Magic Season" at the Polynesian, then an additional $1K annually in dues. If I wait for a promotional rate, I can stay at the CBR during the same time period for $1500 or less per week. That's LESS than the annual dues + interest (for most people) at the Polynesian. You still think people are buying the DVC because they're worried the CBR is suddenly going to jump to $600/night, and the Polly $1200/night?

People buy into DVC precisely because they view it as a vehicle into "affordable" Disney vacations at the deluxe properties. At the presentations I've attended, the sales person spent a great deal of time trying to show me how it lets me stay at deluxe properties for moderate prices. No doubt there will be some people who choose to redeem their points at the CBR, but ultimately Disney will lure people into the program who later buy more points so they can stay elsewhere besides the CBR.

Exactly. Math is a great thing. We bought DVC at BLT because we couldn't go on paying rack rates at the monorail resorts. People using the last three DVC properties ( BLT, GFV and Poly) are not paying attention to the math of the equation. Using a moderate changes the math and equation of why to buy DVC at a particular resort.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly. Math is a great thing. We bought DVC at BLT because we couldn't go on paying rack rates at the monorail resorts. People using the last three DVC properties ( BLT, GFV and Poly) are not paying attention to the math of the equation. Using a moderate changes the math and equation of why to buy DVC at a particular resort.

Bay lake was a huge construction project...

But they added little in the way of facilities. Other than an ill advised restaurant retrofit (RIP concourse steakhouse )...

Caribbean will require a hell of a lot more to sell...or they won't be able to sell it at the going rate.

The reason I bring this up is because they will have to account for much more ancillary constructions/longterm operational costs for Caribbean to get it where it needs to be. Or it will suck if they cut corners...and may not sell...or get booked. That helps Disney in no way, shape or form.

They really can't discount the costs upfront.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Bay lake was a huge construction project...

But they added little in the way of facilities. Other than an ill advised restaurant retrofit (RIP concourse steakhouse )...

Caribbean will require a hell of a lot more to sell...or they won't be able to sell it at the going rate.

The reason I bring this up is because they will have to account for much more ancillary constructions/longterm operational costs for Caribbean to get it where it needs to be. Or it will suck if they cut corners...and may not sell...or get booked. That helps Disney in no way, shape or form.

They really can't discount the costs upfront.

No need for a lot of added facilities at BLT because when you stay there you feel like the Contemporary is a equal part of it. Just a Skybridge away is all the amenities you could want.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

What's the big deal? Make it s moderate DVC, charge the same price per point, and make the accommodations fewer points per night.
You will always have people trying to stretch points who would love this option. Likewise, CBR owners can still use their points at the deluxes.

I don't understand all the fuss.

MG

 

[ParkHoppers]

What's the big deal? Make it s moderate DVC, charge the same price per point, and make the accommodations fewer points per night.
You will always have people trying to stretch points who would love this option. Likewise, CBR owners can still use their points at the deluxes.

I don't understand all the fuss.

MG

You have been a member long enough to understand this is DISboards. It's all about the FUSS. Lol!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

No need for a lot of added facilities at BLT because when you stay there you feel like the Contemporary is a equal part of it. Just a Skybridge away is all the amenities you could want.

Thats proving my point...

Nobody wants to shell out the cost of a car or a year's tuition and pay maintenance fees to eat at the chicken counter at old port Royale.

I disagree about "all the amenities" at contemp though...but don't want to stray.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What's the big deal? Make it s moderate DVC, charge the same price per point, and make the accommodations fewer points per night.
You will always have people trying to stretch points who would love this option. Likewise, CBR owners can still use their points at the deluxes.

I don't understand all the fuss.

MG

I think you might have landed short of the runaway on this one.

Just a tad too simple.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think you might have landed short of the runaway on this one.

Just a tad too simple.

Lol!! Not sure I understand, but that was funny!!

MG

 

[ParkHoppers]

Thats proving my point...

Nobody wants to shell out the cost of a car or a year's tuition and pay maintenance fees to eat at the chicken counter at old port Royale.

I disagree about "all the amenities" at contemp though...but don't want to stray.

I understand your point on how it will be hard for DVC not to charge a high dollar per point for CBV due to the fact they will have to spend a ton to make CBV desirable to buyers. However location is by far and away the reason DVC has gotten away with charging so much $$ per point at their last three builds. Location is the most important factor for most buying DVC at a high price point. CBV don't have it and I,m not sure no matter how much they spend on it buyers will overlook the poor location. And you failed to address the equation of savings going from a deluxe rack rate to deluxe DVC cost. That equation does not work with a moderate IMO. Not at top dollar per point.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The CB will be desirous to members simply for the lower points per night.
Build moderate rooms and a moderate pool with moderate theming. Build a moderate restaurant, but in reality a restaurant should not factor in as those should be self sufficient.

You want to save points (money), stay at a moderate.
It really is that simple.

MG

 

[beer dave]

What if I told you I was secretly Bucky the Badger?

hahahaha!

 

[beer dave]

I'd tell you you're off topic

hahaha as well!

 

[beer dave]

I don't think a moderate DVC is an awful idea, I just am not sure how Disney sees it as a profitable option - or at least as profitable as regular DVC.

And the fact is - nothing that I've seen necessarily indicates that Disney is thinking of building a moderate DVC - only that they would build a DVC next to a moderate. Again I think it's much more likely that they build a normal DVC on par with SSR, only it just happens to share infrastructure with a moderate instead of a deluxe. I think that's much more likely than they build smaller rooms and lower price points.

Exactly-- nobody said they are building a moderate DVC-- they said they are building a DVC at CBR. Or may be...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I understand your point on how it will be hard for DVC not to charge a high dollar per point for CBV due to the fact they will have to spend a ton to make CBV desirable to buyers. However location is by far and away the reason DVC has gotten away with charging so much $$ per point at their last three builds. Location is the most important factor for most buying DVC at a high price point. CBV don't have it and I,m not sure no matter how much they spend on it buyers will overlook the poor location. And you failed to address the equation of savings going from a deluxe rack rate to deluxe DVC cost. That equation does not work with a moderate IMO. Not at top dollar per point.

I'm not disputing the value/DVC locking conversion...I agree
Totally.

And I also agree that it doesn't work at Caribbean..due to value and location.

This plan doesn't make sense. At a MINIMUM...they need to dredge out a canal to studios to provide direct transport. But they also need standalone dining/facilities...which isn't a great deal for DVC/Disney. They might be underused if isolated...overused if you've got about 7,000 rooms on the grounds (which they do)

 

[beer dave]

Yep, if the price per weekday night were like only 6 points, we could stretch our 100 points. Adding 4 week nights @ 24 points, using the One Time Use Points purchase provision would afford us 4 more studio DVC nights for a mere $90 per night!

We already primarily stay value studio(Jambo), so a less than std-sized studio is what we're used to.
We wouldn't like it if they say left the little kitchenette out of the moderate-like CBR studios, though.
We are in the minority of current owners, I assume, with only 100 points, and specifically purchased to stay 9-10 nights in an AKV value studio.

I think you are not neccessarily in the minority... at least not deeply.... I think a rep told us the average owner ends up with about 300.... but you know how averages work, and sales guides....

If you look at how hard it is to get the values and the standards and the parking lot views, it makes one think there are quite a bit of "you".... and imagine a resort they could fill with "your Kin". ......