DVC Moderate Resort Being Reported by WDWNT

[rteetz]

Ok. But not much is being said "on topic" either...

I hate having time to kill

Back to DVC at moderates...

 

[Andrew015]

OK... getting back on track with some breaking news that is related to the subject @ hand. In looking @ Joe Rhode's Twitter feed, he mistakenly leaked some concept art that sheds some light onto the Moderate CBR project. Luckily, I caught it before he took it down It looks as if everyone will be pleased, as this seemingly nails "great theming" on a budget....

 

[LAS2AMS]

Regarding Aulani: I think it's unfair to characterize this hotel as a bust; while DVC memberships may not have met expectations, they sell the property as a hotel. While Disney does not release any numbers publicly, the Ko'Olina region typically reports the highest average occupancy rate on the Island. And the rates aren't cheap, generally selling for $650-$700/night for a no-view studio (occasionally there's a rare promotion, and lower rates are generally available through brokers). There's also a significant amount of non-lodging revenue: Hotel guests have to pay for some of the services offered to DVC guests, such as $40/night for parking. There's an array of activities, beach lounges, etc. available for purchase. And everybody has to pay exorbitant food and beverage prices that make even the most experienced Disney veterans blush. That said, I have no idea of whether or not the property's profitable -- it's alleged that many of the fantasy resorts built in Hawaii during the 1990s have never turned a profit (many were sold for less than there development costs), hence the hesitation to build nothing but timeshares since.

But I really don't see why a DVC at the CBR would be a bad thing. I'd bet they'd price the points similar to the Deluxe properties, but require fewer points per night, thereby reducing the initial capital outlay (since most people buy enough points for one-week). They'll probably fence the properties -- that is, CBR owners could only book the Deluxe properties within 120-days (or 90, or whatever) within arrival, and traditional DVC members could only book the CBR 120-days within arrival. A great way to get people who otherwise wouldn't join to spend their money on DVC.

 

[blackpearl77]

OK... getting back on track with some breaking news that is related to the subject @ hand. In looking @ Joe Rhode's Twitter feed, he mistakenly leaked some concept art that sheds some light onto the Moderate CBR project. Luckily, I caught it before he took it down It looks as if everyone will be pleased, as this seemingly nails "great theming" on a budget....

I can't view the picture - it's just the box with the question mark in it. What did it look like?

 

[rteetz]

I can't view the picture - it's just the box with the question mark in it. What did it look like?

A motel 6, it was a joke.

 

[blackpearl77]

A motel 6, it was a joke.

awww stinker!!!!!

 

[skier_pete]

What if moderate DVC isn't an awful idea?

I don't think a moderate DVC is an awful idea, I just am not sure how Disney sees it as a profitable option - or at least as profitable as regular DVC.

And the fact is - nothing that I've seen necessarily indicates that Disney is thinking of building a moderate DVC - only that they would build a DVC next to a moderate. Again I think it's much more likely that they build a normal DVC on par with SSR, only it just happens to share infrastructure with a moderate instead of a deluxe. I think that's much more likely than they build smaller rooms and lower price points.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't think a moderate DVC is an awful idea, I just am not sure how Disney sees it as a profitable option - or at least as profitable as regular DVC.

And the fact is - nothing that I've seen necessarily indicates that Disney is thinking of building a moderate DVC - only that they would build a DVC next to a moderate. Again I think it's much more likely that they build a normal DVC on par with SSR, only it just happens to share infrastructure with a moderate instead of a deluxe. I think that's much more likely than they build smaller rooms and lower price points.

One of the big problems here is that we have no details even to ruminate on ...

Just some unsubstantiated rumor (from the king of "I thought of this in the bathroom this morning...get on the phone and see if it's true!!") that has resurfaced and makes some sense...

But until we know how the thing would be built, the structure, and the price...it would make no sense.

Me personally? Don't think it's the right way to go. I think expansions at poly, beach, grand Floridian (not on the beach) and maybe contemporary is the better way to go...at least then you know where the whole membership stands. They can always build more standalone but that is brand new employee costs added that they want no parts of...

And we won't know for along time...have they even copped to the wilderness lodge retrofit yet? I know the "teepees"...cause that's a great idea over in bay lake that has more...ummm..."inhabitants" that they have even less control of...
...but the west/north wing is being gutted now...that's not a rumor (know somebody on the project)...and I don't recall press. Was there any?

That being said...this Caribbean thing be 2, 5, maybe more years away.

And it's possible this is yet another "thunder Mesa"'type thing that an overzealous person not in control with a graphics suite on their Mac started talking about. Everybody wants to be important in "the company"...you know?

 

[skier_pete]

Me personally? Don't think it's the right way to go. I think expansions at poly, beach, grand Floridian (not on the beach) and maybe contemporary is the better way to go...at least then you know where the whole membership stands. They can always build more standalone but that is brand new employee costs added that they want no parts of...

Agree - seems much smarter to:
(a) Expand Beach/Yacht Club presence - which is an EXTREMELY popular and small location
(b) Expand Poly to include 1- and 2-bedrooms.
(c) Expand VGF - consider a studio only wing, which is the single hardest broad studio category to get into.

All of these would have little trouble selling the current exaggerated price point - versus a Carribean Beach that I think would be a hard sell without lower pricing/point values, which will also devalue the property itself.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Agree - seems much smarter to:
(a) Expand Beach/Yacht Club presence - which is an EXTREMELY popular and small location
(b) Expand Poly to include 1- and 2-bedrooms.
(c) Expand VGF - consider a studio only wing, which is the single hardest broad studio category to get into.

All of these would have little trouble selling the current exaggerated price point - versus a Carribean Beach that I think would be a hard sell without lower pricing/point values, which will also devalue the property itself.

...it's getting scary how much we agree...SOMETIMES...

What's your thoughts on brexit?

 

[linzbear]

They can also build another BLT, though I don't think there would be MK view rooms.

And then there's the old rumored DVC at River Country.

I'm inclined to agree that this has something to do with Star Wars Land though, and is not a continuation of CBR.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They can also build another BLT, though I don't think there would be MK view rooms.

And then there's the old rumored DVC at River Country.

I'm inclined to agree that this has something to do with Star Wars Land though, and is not a continuation of CBR.

I see this one starting to pick up steam...

There's a couple of problems with the "Star Wars hotel" idea:
1. Big one - it's still too boy centric. I know Kennedy is all about the women's movement in the movies...but it's still gonna resonate more with boys. Which means a hotel is not a good angle for longterm operations.
2. It's too focused on one IP that can be fickle. I know it's Star Wars - lifelong fan - but I don't trust that it will always be there. Shocking...but if you had told me that Star Wars would change the way it did in April of 1999...I would have been less surprised if I had woke up with my hair sewn to the carpet. All things can change. Especially with Disneys new erratic, freewheeling business model.
3. DVC units are not designed to have "robust" theming. If you noticed - it's all subdued. That's not coincidence. If you are selling to grandparents (a much higher percentage than rack customers)...you can't have a 55 foot tall stormtrooper outside your window. They don't want it...so it wouldn't work. How do you do Star Wars "low key" without it coming off as looking like nothing?

 

[Tinklover613]

I think some people fail to realize what the younger generation wants. As a millennial, I've watched my elders make extreme financial mistakes, and I will do everything I can to ensure I don't do the same. Investing almost $30,000 in a Disney timeshare would feel stupid at the age of 28, however I am young, have a family, make great money, and can afford to travel to Disney yearly. Disney could certainly hook me on a moderate or lower priced offer, but never on something like VGF or Poly. This is a win for Disney if it happens, as it will ensure a younger generation is hooked for 50 years and will continue to come back. I think many on this forum forget that not everyone who is under 35 has thousands upon thousands of dollars to "invest" in leisure. But if Disney hooks me now into a "moderate" or lower priced timeshare, I may be willing to invest in more points at a deluxe resort later in life when my preferences change.

Personally, I would never pay for the "high" amenity resorts, since I'm out at the parks the whole day anyways. And yes, my family owns DVC together (OKW Lovers), so I am aware of the difference in staying DVC vs. non-dvc.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think some people fail to realize what the younger generation wants. As a millennial, I've watched my elders make extreme financial mistakes, and I will do everything I can to ensure I don't do the same. Investing almost $30,000 in a Disney timeshare would feel stupid at the age of 28, however I am young, have a family, make great money, and can afford to travel to Disney yearly. Disney could certainly hook me on a moderate or lower priced offer, but never on something like VGF or Poly. This is a win for Disney if it happens, as it will ensure a younger generation is hooked for 50 years and will continue to come back. I think many on this forum forget that not everyone who is under 35 has thousands upon thousands of dollars to "invest" in leisure. But if Disney hooks me now into a "moderate" or lower priced timeshare, I may be willing to invest in more points at a deluxe resort later in life when my preferences change.

Personally, I would never pay for the "high" amenity resorts, since I'm out at the parks the whole day anyways. And yes, my family owns DVC together (OKW Lovers), so I am aware of the difference in staying DVC vs. non-dvc.

Great points...and i hear what your saying...

However your talking a real fundamental shift to DVC. It is what it is...even if it is based on an outdated, 1980's, middle class concept (it is...Incase anyone is curious)...

The FIRST DVC contracts expire in 26 years...with many more stretch out for decades after...

Those cant be "dead points" or the whole thing will fold. So they have to at least remain fairly consistent with the original, deluxe model.

What did they do wrong? A 200% price increase in 10 years while the pool of eligible buyers will continue to shrink. That's the real issue and these current "managers" don't recognize it. They have all the sense of a 2006 mortgage underwriter.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think many on this forum forget that not everyone who is under 35 has thousands upon thousands of dollars to "invest" in leisure. But if Disney hooks me now into a "moderate" or lower priced timeshare, I may be willing to invest in more points at a deluxe resort later in life when my preferences change.

Well said...

To expand...I think very few people can and will be able to do this moving forward. The population rises...but the DVC pool does not. It's actually contracting.

Not only do Disney fanatics on this board not get it...Disney itself does not.

They are Charging prices in the vacuum of their dwarf boardroom. Because they have no longterm
Interests. And we see that in Orlando more than anywhere of late. All the suits know they'll be gone...Disney is interconnected with Apple, Facebook, Google...when slimy Bob shuffles
Off...they all will get a golden pillow from one of their pals somewhere else. As Simon and Garfunkel would say, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

...or "Roy e Disney" in this case...

There "leisure" pricing is indicative of that.

Since I had DVC pre 30 (reasonable buyin then...not close now)...I find myself in the "next evolution" of your cycle. In a phase where more money can be devoted to travel.

We could and would use more...but I don't see the value in the price. And...now they are altering longstanding policies using small print clauses. Yep...yanking benefits for resales long established.

That hasn't pushed me away from resale and back into a bad salesmans office at Saratoga - as designed - it instead pushed me off the grid. Still have dollars to spend on travel...but won't be so blatantly, low rent manipulated for them.

 

[Reddog1134]

3. DVC units are not designed to have "robust" theming. If you noticed - it's all subdued. That's not coincidence. If you are selling to grandparents (a much higher percentage than rack customers)...you can't have a 55 foot tall stormtrooper outside your window. They don't want it...so it wouldn't work. How do you do Star Wars "low key" without it coming off as looking like nothing?

Exactly.

This is Animal Kingdom Lodge as a DVC/Deluxe.


This is Animal Kingdom Lodge as a Value.

 

[skier_pete]

I'm inclined to agree that this has something to do with Star Wars Land though, and is not a continuation of CBR.

I see this one starting to pick up steam...

There's a couple of problems with the "Star Wars hotel" idea:
1. Big one - it's still too boy centric.
2. It's too focused on one IP that can be fickle.
3. DVC units are not designed to have "robust" theming.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with @lockedoutlogic yet again. (We are the ying and yang of the news boards - different attitudes but agree frequently.)

However - I don't think it's beyond the pale that they would make a Star Wars resort hotel - I just don't think they would make a DVC resort. As @lockedoutlogic points out, the DVC resorts aren't generally strongly themed - with maybe the exception of AKV. The reason is it needs to appeal to people as a long-term stay location. While Star Wars will appeal to a certain segment of the market - I think generally the long-term high-dollar investors of DVC would NOT like the idea of being locked in to a Star Wars resort.

Much more logical would be something similar to AoA - a resort which is essentially a "value" resort, but gets priced as a "moderate" due to the Star Wars themeing.

Star Wars as DVC makes little sense.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I would gladly pay rack to go to a Star Wars Hotel...especially if it had direct access.

But i don't want to buy a piece of it.

And...they would likely be compelled or forced to build Elsa's ice palace on the other side of whatever alligator free lake they dredge next to it.

I think a new rack development with the ip is a good idea and would boost business...not a timeshare though.

Can't be a worse idea than pop century or all star music

 

[rteetz]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with @lockedoutlogic yet again. (We are the ying and yang of the news boards - different attitudes but agree frequently.)

However - I don't think it's beyond the pale that they would make a Star Wars resort hotel - I just don't think they would make a DVC resort. As @lockedoutlogic points out, the DVC resorts aren't generally strongly themed - with maybe the exception of AKV. The reason is it needs to appeal to people as a long-term stay location. While Star Wars will appeal to a certain segment of the market - I think generally the long-term high-dollar investors of DVC would NOT like the idea of being locked in to a Star Wars resort.

Much more logical would be something similar to AoA - a resort which is essentially a "value" resort, but gets priced as a "moderate" due to the Star Wars themeing.

Star Wars as DVC makes little sense.

I'm with ya here. I think a Star Wars resort is very possible just not as a DVC property.

 

[rteetz]

Can't be a worse idea than pop century or all star music

Why are those bad ideas? I've stayed at Pop and an all star both over 10 years ago but still have stayed there. I think the value category while over priced now for a value helps people get on property who can't afford a deluxe. We were routinely value people until my youngest sister came aboard then we moved up to moderates because we needed space for year was my first deluxe stay. Personally while the theming might not be great and the rooms are comparable to a motel 6 at times, it's on Disney property and I don't need more than a bed and shower when I'm at Disney. If we had the means to stay at BC every time I would but we just can't.