DVC Moderate Resort Being Reported by WDWNT

[rteetz]

Second...they let the village idiot blow the budget on it. A billion for "fake Hawaii" when some Windows to look out on real Hawaii would have sufficed

Its all Joe's fault again. I know you don't like him but he did fantastic work on that resort. I haven't heard one person say its not amazing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Its all Joe's fault again. I know you don't like him but he did fantastic work on that resort. I haven't heard one person say its not amazing.

I don't know what your measuring stick is...

"Fantastic" based on what?

I won't blame him for it not selling...that's on DVC.

But did he follow the budget? Did it go way over...according to widely held consensus...it did.

That's a "fail" from a business standpoint. He's closer to Home Depot than Michelangelo at this point and needs to start acting like it.

 

[rteetz]

I don't know what your measuring stick is...

"Fantastic" based on what?

I won't blame him for it not selling...that's on DVC.

But did he follow the budget? Did it go way over...according to widely held consensus...it did.

That's a "fail" from a business standpoint. He's closer to Home Depot than Michelangelo at this point and needs to start acting like it.

I haven't seen or heard anything on what the budget was for Aulani so that I can't comment on and if you have numbers for it please share.

I don't think you have been there have you? So since you haven't seen it in person I think it's hard for you to judge it. I haven't seen a review of the place where people don't love it and it's theming.

I don't know that's just me I guess as from photos and videos I think it looks fantastic.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Have you BEEN to Aulani? We love it!! Headed back again at Thanksgiving. Oahu made far more sense with the availability of larger tourist options like Pearl Harbour, Waikiki and the North Shore. Maui is gorgeous - but a much more beach, Sunday drive and boutique shopping type of vacay.

I agree Oahu was the best location to build Aulani. Aulani's problem isn't it's location, it's the fact that it's a Disney resort on Hawaii. As I mentioned earlier, DVC largely appeals to families who desire to vacation in WDW and for many of them, a trip to Aulani is a once-in-a-lifetime experience as the cost of airfare is a deterrent. Thus, it makes more sense to buy into property in which WDW is the home base. If you're seeking a property in which Hawaii is the home base, Marriott is the best program (with six vacation club properties to choose from, which will grown with the Starwood acquisition) but Hilton, Diamond, etc. also have strong offerings. They can be acquired for far cheaper (via the resale market) than Aulani and can be easily exchanged for DVC properties in WDW. You really, really have to like Aulani to purchase it as your home and there just aren't that many Disney fanatics.

FWIW, when I was at Aulani three years ago, I was told Disney was planning a second resort in Princeville (Kauai Island). I have no idea if this is (was) true or it's just something the sales person fabricated to increase her chances of a sale.

I am not saying that Asians are buying into Aulani - what I'm saying is that the Japanese economy was a big reason for Disney to build Aulani, and when it shrank so badly during the construction phase and never recovered, the sales figures just weren't there. Certainly Hawaii will remain a popular Japanese destination.

Japanese tourist arrivals have been steadily dropping since the late 1990s, but they're still by far the largest spenders. For that reason, everybody chases them, and they're still spending big on timeshares. Disney's problem has more to do with its product (just a single Hawaiian resort / most properties in WDW) vs. the competition than anything else.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I haven't seen or heard anything on what the budget was for Aulani so that I can't comment on and if you have numbers for it please share.

I don't think you have been there have you? So since you haven't seen it in person I think it's hard for you to judge it. I haven't seen a review of the place where people don't love it and it's theming.

I don't know that's just me I guess as from photos and videos I think it looks fantastic.

I'm rating it's place In DVC and its impact on the program and business...

That's what my criticism is based in.

I'm not rating theme park rides from home...

...which you'll
Admit happens here a lot with little to base it on from afar.

 

[rteetz]

I'm rating it's place In DVC and its impact on the program and business...

That's what my criticism is based in.

I'm not rating theme park rides from home...

...which you'll
Admit happens here a lot with little to base it on from afar.

Okay I have no problem with you discussing it's place in DVC but you brought up Joe Rohde and his theming and how he blows money out the window like no tomorrow. Like I said before if you have numbers please share because I don't.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Okay I have no problem with you discussing it's place in DVC but you brought up Joe Rohde and his theming and how he blows money out the window like no tomorrow. Like I said before if you have numbers please share because I don't.

You know I'm a big fan

I question everything rohde touches...I don't know how he hasn't been axed (I have suspicions though)...

Look at the original animal kingdom...look at avatar...look at Everest...

Just not a good sense of the environment parks are operating in. Send him to Disneyland...or China (either)...I need somebody to make practical choices in Orlando. He's not it.

Not fair? Probably...
reasonable? Somewhat...

 

[rteetz]

You know I'm a big fan

I question everything rohde touches...I don't know how he hasn't been axed (I have suspicions though)...

Look at the original animal kingdom...look at avatar...look at Everest...

Just not a good sense of the environment parks are operating in. Send him to Disneyland...or China (either)...I need somebody to make practical choices in Orlando. He's not it.

Not fair? Probably...
reasonable? Somewhat...

Avoiding my question. Do you have numbers or not? How do we know he went so much over budget or whatever on Aulani?

I also love how you point that all over budget problems are because of him. Imagineering has gone over budget on practically everything they've done.

 

[skier_pete]

Avoiding my question. Do you have numbers or not? How do we know he went so much over budget or whatever on Aulani?

I also love how you point that all over budget problems are because of him. Imagineering has gone over budget on practically everything they've done.

Don't get in a dueling match with @lockedoutlogic over Joe Rhode. The guy can do no right in his eyes. As for me, I'm with you, he has a history of way overspending his projects, but brilliant theming is usually the result. I have not heard anywhere about Aulani over-running its budget though. I fact I just did a search and found nothing about it.

I also think we should probably bend the track back to the subject at hand. I am not sure what the merits of Aulani really have to do with a moderate DVC resort at WDW.

The facts are - outside of this recent rumor, which really just reiterates a rumor from a year or so ago, there's probably little more we will know about any resort here for several years. DVC keeps things close to vest - possibly closer than even the parks construction people. The DVC at Wilderness Lodge has been in progress for about a year, and we only recently got a name. We still have no idea the point values for the rooms - will they be on par with the existing rooms? Will the bungalows be as overpriced as the Poly ones? (I'm betting they won't be.)

So really the NEXT DVC we probably won't have a clue as far as what will be going on there until at LEAST 2018.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Avoiding my question. Do you have numbers or not? How do we know he went so much over budget or whatever on Aulani?

I also love how you point that all over budget problems are because of him. Imagineering has gone over budget on practically everything they've done.

Aulani had the biggest DVC budget by a nautical mile...some of that is understandable...some of it was undoubtedly superfluous.

I can dig...tough getting honest numbers from Disney...as you know. TOTS.

Animal kingdom is still officially a $1 billion or so park...when the internal numbers behind the scenes at the time Were like $2.2...and that did leak out.

Everest had 50 man backpacking expeditions (guess who's idea) that they used to show on the travel channel specials about all that "immersive design"...back when they thought it would work...those went away.

There is a track record here...it's getting standoffish these days around here to forget history...while believe the company line and most other "insider" sites. It's probably the Zeal of "all that new stuff" that's been rolling out...the long prophecized liberation of management in regards to WDW.

But I can't quite see that yet...I'm up here in the east coast cheap seats

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The guy can do no right in his eyes. As for me, I'm with you, he has a history of way overspending his projects, but brilliant theming is usually the result.

I will concede my unfair treatment of big Joe if any of you noble Knights and Honorable Squires will answer these questions (which never happens):

1. What does the management want...and by that...the ones that sign the checks (more important people)
2. Does the blasé attitude for "art" hurt other capex expenditures (hint: that one is rhetorical)
3. Does that approach make things better or worse for the future of imagineering? Even if you want to defend it?

Very obvious answers...and troubling. The battle is not being fought the right way.

Universals team is getting whatever they want and producing on excelerated schedules...

Disney can't get anything without a fight and then they aren't meeting schedules.

Big problems...I think we'll
Agree there.

And I may put too much Blame on an underling as a figurehead...but too much blame is being put on a fired department head too. It's a widespread infection...throughout the whole body...not a blister on the toe.

 

[rteetz]

Aulani had the biggest DVC budget by a nautical mile...some of that is understandable...some of it was undoubtedly superfluous.

I can dig...tough getting honest numbers from Disney...as you know. TOTS.

Animal kingdom is still officially a $1 billion or so park...when the internal numbers behind the scenes at the time Were like $2.2...and that did leak out.

Everest had 50 man backpacking expeditions (guess who's idea) that they used to show on the travel channel specials about all that "immersive design"...back when they thought it would work...those went away.

There is a track record here...it's getting standoffish these days around here to forget history...while believe the company line and most other "insider" sites. It's probably the Zeal of "all that new stuff" that's been rolling out...the long prophecized liberation of management in regards to WDW.

But I can't quite see that yet...I'm up here in the east coast cheap seats

My biggest problem with your opinion on this is you make it seem like Joe Rohde is the sole problem in imagineering. Which is not true, and if he was he would've been gone already. Imagineering as a whole has gone over budget in everything. Since 1955 long before your favorite Imagineer Joe Rohde was with the company they have gone over budget.

I will concede my unfair treatment of big Joe if any of you noble Knights and Honorable Squires will answer these questions (which never happens):

1. What does the management want...and by that...the ones that sign the checks (more important people)
2. Does the blasé attitude for "art" hurt other capex expenditures (hint: that one is rhetorical)
3. Does that approach make things better or worse for the future of imagineering? Even if you want to defend it?

Very obvious answers...and troubling. The battle is not being fought the right way.

Universals team is getting whatever they want and producing on excelerated schedules...

Disney can't get anything without a fight and then they aren't meeting schedules.

Big problems...I think we'll
Agree there.

And I may put too much Blame on an underling as a figurehead...but too much blame is being put on a fired department head too. It's a widespread infection...throughout the whole body...not a blister on the toe.

1. Management wants to make money with spending as little money as possible. That's obvious but sometimes you have to spend a lot of money to make money. Since Bob came into power they have always been tighter with the wallets and don't spend as much in the US.
2. Art is what imagineering is based on. It's not just Joe everything from 1955 Disneyland to Frozen Ever After that just opened has been about art, putting you in a story, and immersing you in details you can't see anywhere else. That's the whole point of WDW and frankly if that bothers you why do you keep going?
3. The future of imagineering is ever changing. The big focus is Star Wars and they have a new head of imagineering in Bob Weis which I think will be a good thing for the future. Sure budgets need to get under control and they are but they're never going to stop their "art".

Let's get back to DVC at moderates please.

 

[skier_pete]

I will concede my unfair treatment of big Joe if any of you noble Knights and Honorable Squires will answer these questions (which never happens):

1. What does the management want...and by that...the ones that sign the checks (more important people)
2. Does the blasé attitude for "art" hurt other capex expenditures (hint: that one is rhetorical)
3. Does that approach make things better or worse for the future of imagineering? Even if you want to defend it?

OK - I'll bite:
1. Management likely wants unique experiences at the lowest possible price.
2. I don't even understand the question - part of Disney is great theming. If you don't have the "art" you end up with California Adventure 1.0 and then people don't want to go.
3. I have no idea and can't possibly know. I work for a big company that has many big projects. All big projects go the same.
(a) Engineers project costs and timing
(b) management forces cuts on both
(c) project gets approve with impossible to meet targets and expectations
(d) project goes over budget and long
And we don't have to worry about "asthetically pleasing" as one of our mandates. And my scale is much smaller than a theme park. I admit Universal seems to be much better lately at meeting their timelines. (Although you don't hear squat about there budgets.) All that said, what affect that has on the future of imagineering...I don't know but more often than not they get raves on their designs and attractions. For all the negative of the Frozenification of Norway - lots of raves about what was done there. (If they can get it to function.)

I may put too much Blame on an underling as a figurehead...but too much blame is being put on a fired department head too. It's a widespread infection...throughout the whole body...not a blister on the toe.

I don't think Joe Rohde is much of an underling anymore. As @rteetz says, the problems you describe aren't limited to his projects. I agree their ARE problems, and from what we hear Disney management seems to be putting their foot down with Star Wars and demanding things are done on-time and budget, but we'll see if that makes much of a difference. But to saying "It's Rohde's fault" is like saying all project overruns before his were Tony Baxter's fault.

Let's get back to DVC at moderates please.

Agree

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The official answers are:

1. No blown budgets. Even if occasionally one was met...it would go a great distance towards loosening chains on everything else
2. Imagineering has to find balance between budget and aesthetics...this is not an optional thing.
3. #2 hurts #3...stock mongers hold grudges...the North never forgets.

I'll grade you two on a bell curve

...now back to why Caribbean is an awful idea.

 

[rteetz]

The official answers are:

1. No blown budgets. Even if occasionally one was met...it would go a great distance towards loosening chains on everything else
2. Imagineering has to find balance between budget and aesthetics...this is not an optional thing.
3. #2 hurts #3...stock mongers hold grudges...the North never forgets.

I'll grade you two on a bell curve

...now back to why Caribbean is an awful idea.

Keep dodging the bullet don't ya...

What if moderate DVC isn't an awful idea?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Keep dodging the bullet don't ya...

...that's funny...consider the sidestepping going on both sides of the isle these days. I get "everything is great" or "its my favorite" on almost every topic.

Not disputing that...what would the accountants say about the big picture though? That is a real issue moving forward.

Is Caribbean a bad idea? Don't know yet...but there are some obvious pros and cons (potentially) that we have hashed out here. Time will tell.

 

[rteetz]

...that's funny...consider the sidestepping going on both sides of the isle these days. I get "everything is great" or "its my favorite" on almost every topic.

Not disputing that...what would the accountants say about the big picture though? That is a real issue moving forward.

Is Caribbean a bad idea? Don't know yet...but there are some obvious pros and cons (potentially) that we have hashed out here. Time will tell.

I don't see where I'm side stepping. I'll be one of the first people to tell you everything is not great but hey what do I know I'm just an 18 year old disboards moderator talking to someone I've never met and probably never will.

If we don't know if Carribean beach DVC is a bad idea yet then you can't say it is.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What if I told you I was secretly Bucky the Badger?

 

[rteetz]

What if I told you I was secretly Bucky the Badger?

I'd tell you you're off topic

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'd tell you you're off topic

Ok. But not much is being said "on topic" either...

I hate having time to kill