DVC Extras, WHY?

[CMNJ]

I'm really so curious-if you think prices are going to dramatically plummet because of this change then why did you just buy DVC? Did you not know about (or fully understand) the restrictions when you purchased? Or are you having buyer's remorse? I completely get being bummed about not having access to the extras but Disney isn't going to reverse this policy because it upsets resale buyers nor are they guaranteeing direct purchasers high resale values.

 

[ziravan]

Your seeing it from your perspective because you probably bought prior to 4-4-2016 or you paid full price, but you have to see it from the perspective of those that buy it after 4-4-2016. Yes we all know its not guaranteed. But when members that pay dues and are "equal" get excluded from member events and location restriction. Then this goes against the original condo docs that states members would not be treated differently because they purchased a resale. Example: Member post 4-4-16 don't receive the blue membership cards and thus in the hot summer months would not be able to enjoy the DVC Members Lounge at Epcot. That's discrimination against fellow members whether or not they paid full price. Where it's really going to hurt is the resale when you try to sell and you find out that your loosing almost $10 a year per point and what you ask for not nearly what people are willing to pay. From the reports I read DVD owns more than 50% of OKW and it isn't a coincidence. Also as time goes on what happened in 2011, 2016 will continue to happen until it's completely worthless. Then DVD will have ROFR and sell extended contracts.

So far as resales go, that's been far more economy driven than perk driven.

Since 4/4/16, resale prices have skyrocketed. Just as they'll plunge during the next recession, perks or not.

It's a high end luxury product subject to economic conditions far more than any other metric.

The market over the last year has demonstrably proven the theory that restricting perks will hurt resales wrong.

 

[PAPIHAVANA]

I can understand if you have a privilege and you do something to get that privilege revoked. Then it would be understandable but not if you did nothing wrong just buy at the wrong time. This is wrong and as I see it as discrimination. As far as everyone loosing their privileges I doubt that will ever happen. Im sure DVD needs to offer incentives to sell and there are many ways of doing this but it cannot be at the expense of hurting fellow members. They have always given out merchandise, tickets, room stays, even free ice cream. If you ask me. That's what people pay for when they buy direct. Everybody's ice cream, tickets, shirts, tote, and everything else. They pay for that experience! When the original buyers of DVC properties purchased their share. It was with the mind set of it not loosing value. On the contrary you could "Will" it to a family member or "SELL" it. The membership would keep its benefits so that the investment wouldn't loose value. Now DVD comes along and renigs on the original agreements. If I am an original owner this would have me fuming. It seems that nobody cares until it affects them directly.

 

[bwvBound]

Me and my wife are finally thinking about taking the plunge and buy DVC. I hate that Disney is limiting access to the extras. I know benefits are always subject to change or go away completely, But come on can't use the new members lunge, because bought resale. That free coke really going to break Disney!! Resale is more economical choice for me and my family, so want change my mind and buy direct. Just a little venting. I will at least have the best benefit and that is staying at a wonderful DVC resort.

For my $0.02: It has nothing to do with the free giveaway ('coke' in your example from the Member's Lounge). Perhaps it is more about restricting the conversation in the Lounge? Why have a set of owners, the resale owners, spoiling recent or future direct sales by talking up the alternate purchase avenue? DVD doesn't want that conversation to be heard anywhere on their property, or at their events, if they can prevent it.

Envision:

Reggie and Rayna Resale enter the lounge and strike up a natural conversation with Doug and Debbie Direct. Both couples are thrilled to swap stories of their home resort, recent travel experiences. Somewhere, in the unfolding conversation, it is discovered that one couple are Mr. & Mrs. Resale. Oh? Mr. and Mrs. Direct had heard of Resale but never understood it, knew too little of it and, as a result, were intimidated. They hung on every word as Mr. & Mrs. Resale made the process sound easy.

{{ So far, DVD is still whole. The conversation hasn't spoilt any current sale in progress or caused the Direct couple to rescind.}}

Months later, friends of Mr. & Mrs. Direct ask them for guidance on a future DVC purchase. Mr. & Mrs. Direct, now armed with more confidence regarding resale and wishing to offer their friends the best rounded advice, explain the options. So, the future sale goes resale.

{{ Ah, ha. Now DVD has lost a sale. This, perhaps, is why they never wanted the Resale couple to mingle with the Direct couple at a company sponsored event. Savvy? }}

 

[mustinjourney]

I can understand if you have a privilege and you do something to get that privilege revoked. Then it would be understandable but not if you did nothing wrong just buy at the wrong time. This is wrong and as I see it as discrimination. As far as everyone loosing their privileges I doubt that will ever happen. Im sure DVD needs to offer incentives to sell and there are many ways of doing this but it cannot be at the expense of hurting fellow members. They have always given out merchandise, tickets, room stays, even free ice cream. If you ask me. That's what people pay for when they buy direct. Everybody's ice cream, tickets, shirts, tote, and everything else. They pay for that experience! When the original buyers of DVC properties purchased their share. It was with the mind set of it not loosing value. On the contrary you could "Will" it to a family member or "SELL" it. The membership would keep its benefits so that the investment wouldn't loose value. Now DVD comes along and renigs on the original agreements. If I am an original owner this would have me fuming. It seems that nobody cares until it affects them directly.

I hate doing this, but at this point, it's not a typo.

Loose means to make less tight. Lose is the word you are looking for. As in, you have a losing argument legally speaking.

 

[Dean]

I can understand if you have a privilege and you do something to get that privilege revoked. Then it would be understandable but not if you did nothing wrong just buy at the wrong time. This is wrong and as I see it as discrimination. As far as everyone loosing their privileges I doubt that will ever happen. Im sure DVD needs to offer incentives to sell and there are many ways of doing this but it cannot be at the expense of hurting fellow members. They have always given out merchandise, tickets, room stays, even free ice cream. If you ask me. That's what people pay for when they buy direct. Everybody's ice cream, tickets, shirts, tote, and everything else. They pay for that experience! When the original buyers of DVC properties purchased their share. It was with the mind set of it not loosing value. On the contrary you could "Will" it to a family member or "SELL" it. The membership would keep its benefits so that the investment wouldn't loose value. Now DVD comes along and renigs on the original agreements. If I am an original owner this would have me fuming. It seems that nobody cares until it affects them directly.

You either knew or should have known this going in, you have no one else to blame but yourself. But you can get all the benefits that matter by a small add on. It's very rare where the words not fair and timeshare can be used in the same conversation and this isn't one of them.

 

[zavandor]

Your seeing it from your perspective because you probably bought prior to 4-4-2016 or you paid full price, but you have to see it from the perspective of those that buy it after 4-4-2016. Yes we all know its not guaranteed. But when members that pay dues and are "equal" get excluded from member events and location restriction. Then this goes against the original condo docs that states members would not be treated differently because they purchased a resale. Example: Member post 4-4-16 don't receive the blue membership cards and thus in the hot summer months would not be able to enjoy the DVC Members Lounge at Epcot. That's discrimination against fellow members whether or not they paid full price. Where it's really going to hurt is the resale when you try to sell and you find out that your loosing almost $10 a year per point and what you ask for not nearly what people are willing to pay. From the reports I read DVD owns more than 50% of OKW and it isn't a coincidence. Also as time goes on what happened in 2011, 2016 will continue to happen until it's completely worthless. Then DVD will have ROFR and sell extended contracts.

If not having access to the members'perks makes you feel you're not getting value from your purchase, you should sell. If enough people do this, the market will crash.
But since it hasn't happen yet, I think the majority of potential resale owners give to the restrictions the correct value (i.e. very low).

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If not having access to the members'perks makes you feel you're not getting value from your purchase, you should sell. If enough people do this, the market will crash.
But since it hasn't happen yet, I think the majority of potential resale owners give to the restrictions the correct value (i.e. very low).

Market still won't crash, as Disney have some incentive to keep it above a certain price-point via ROFR. It'll get less inflated, certainly. The economy and Disney's financial picture is such that when Disney is listing new resorts at $176 and after incentive still selling those above $160, they have to maintain a certain level of pricing at resale.

 

[zavandor]

Market still won't crash, as Disney have some incentive to keep it above a certain price-point via ROFR. It'll get less inflated, certainly. The economy and Disney's financial picture is such that when Disney is listing new resorts at $176 and after incentive still selling those above $160, they have to maintain a certain level of pricing at resale.

I agree that DVC will never be sold for pennies on Ebay like other timeshares. When I write crash, I mean we can go back to post 2008 recession, even something less given less years remaining. I guess most people who recently bought SSR for $70-80 would consider $40-50 quite a crash. But it's not going to happen over a few incentives, if/when it'll happen, it will be due to huge problems with the economy.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I agree that DVC will never be sold for pennies on Ebay like other timeshares. When I write crash, I mean we can go back to post 2008 recession, even something less given less years remaining. I guess most people who recently bought SSR for $70-80 would consider $40-50 quite a crash. But it's not going to happen over a few incentives, if/when it'll happen, it will be due to huge problems with the economy.

Exactly. It's not going to be incentive-driven, and Disney will just use some ROFR more aggressively and not have to tell people calling for 25-point add-ons there's no waitlist for BCV or VGF.

 

[wnielsen1]

I bought direct because I wanted Copper Creek as my home resort. The perks or benefits did not factor into the decision.

 

[Marionnette]

@PAPIHAVANA did you understand the product you were purchasing?

From what I can see, you bought a completely stripped SSR contract with a Dec UY. You haven't even been able to stay on those 2018 points and you're already dissatisfied with it.

Did you research your purchase prior to buying? And if you did, why were you okay with not receiving member benefits at the time but not now? If you didn't do due diligence and were unaware of the restrictions, that's your fault, not the fault of DVD. The terms of resale ownership were made clear almost a year before you made your resale offers.

You can choose to do a few things at this point:

1. Lawyer up and be a Don Quixote tilting at windmills. Costly and not likely to result in change.
2. Sell your contract, maybe even at a profit given that you got it for a good price.
3. Buy a small add on contract directly from DVD to gain member benefits.
4. Accept that this is the product you bought and make the best of it.

Complaining to a bunch of DVC owners that you feel "discriminated against" comes across as entitled whining. There is true discrimination in this world and you're trivializing it with your baseless complaints.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

Does anyone think that with all the members buying resale and being discriminated by not giving them the same benefits as all other members prior to April 2016. Would it be cause for a class action law suit? I understand that it is a benefit and it can be taken away at anytime. But, it should be an equal benefit. Does it seem fair to an individual that purchased April 4th, 2016, than and individual that purchased April 5th. 2016. If you ask me I think a class action suit is in order!

And I know what some people are going to say "Well you knew you weren't going to get the incidentals benefits when you purchased" Yes I know! But it's the matter of principle! Plus we are not supposed to be living in an age of segregation. A membership is a membership no matter what! We all have ownership rights and soon more will be without benefits than those with the benefits. If their are any attorneys out there listening???

I've been researching DVC for a number of months. From what I understand, buying resale vs. buying direct is a DIFFERENT LEVEL of membership to the club, it's not segregation. Disney demographics: You have regular ticketholders who paid full price. You have people on-property on a Bounceback. You have AP members and DVC members. you have people who buy tickets through AAA, TouringPlans, etc. You cannot provide the same level of service to them all.

You have to break down the math and decide if the price difference is worth all the extra Direct DVD perks. There are about a million other factors for this, hence why it has to be a perfect fit for you and yours. saving the initial outset might sound great but over the course of many trips, you may realize how much that "perk" is worth to you!

 

[ziravan]

I've been researching DVC for a number of months. From what I understand, buying resale vs. buying direct is a DIFFERENT LEVEL of membership to the club, it's not segregation. Disney demographics: You have regular ticketholders who paid full price. You have people on-property on a Bounceback. You have AP members and DVC members. you have people who buy tickets through AAA, TouringPlans, etc. You cannot provide the same level of service to them all.

You have to break down the math and decide if the price difference is worth all the extra Direct DVD perks. There are about a million other factors for this, hence why it has to be a perfect fit for you and yours. saving the initial outset might sound great but over the course of many trips, you may realize how much that "perk" is worth to you!

I do disagree with this.

DVC in its member's statement began pointing out after 4/4/16 that direct buyers are "members" and resale buyers are "purchasers".

They no longer even give a real membership card to resale buyers.

If you buy resale, DVC no longer considers you "part of the club".

It's very petty.

It's very unnecessary.

It's not illegal.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Absolutely not illegal. They are not rejecting you on any protected class basis. If you show up with money or appropriate financing, anyone who meets legal requirements to enter a contract can become a direct purchaser.

 

[thelionqueen]

I totally understand why Disney is limiting perks. The huge price gap between retail and resale has to include something..anything.. to sway guests to buy direct from Disney. For me, the perks are missed, but certainly not enough to justify an additional $20,000! I would imagine they will take away the perks from small contracts for the exact same reason. Not sure if they could or would, but makes sense for them to.

 

[ziravan]

From the Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure Statement (MEADS) as amended on 4/4/16:

“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD and is a member of the Club in good standing pursuant to the terms and provisions of the Club, including compliance with all Club and DVC Resort rules and regulations and current payment of all annual dues and purchase-money financing.

Everybody who buys an ownership interest is a purchaser but only those who buy directly from DVD are considered members.

 

[ziravan]

I totally understand why Disney is limiting perks. The huge price gap between retail and resale has to include something..anything.. to sway guests to buy direct from Disney. For me, the perks are missed, but certainly not enough to justify an additional $20,000! I would imagine they will take away the perks from small contracts for the exact same reason. Not sure if they could or would, but makes sense for them to.

Eventually they will likely tier member benefits based on qualifying points. A minimum number of qualifying points to get any benefit (probably higher than 25, reasonably 100 or more), and a minimum number to be VIP members (my guess is more than 320 - twice the original buy in minimum of 160).

They will almost certainly grandfather as they've done in the past.

My advice to resale owners looking to add on a small direct contract to become "members" is that they do it as soon as possible.

It might not be available for long.

You think people are complaining now, wait until AP discounts become a VIP benefit and VIP benefits include things like extra FPs and concierge type VIP lounges at each resort. I became convinced this was coming when DVD didn't create a concierge level at CCR.

 

[DougEMG]

Eventually they will likely tier member benefits based on qualifying points. A minimum number of qualifying points to get any benefit (probably higher than 25, reasonably 100 or more), and a minimum number to be VIP members (my guess is more than 320 - twice the original buy in minimum of 160).

They will almost certainly grandfather as they've done in the past.

My advice to resale owners looking to add on a small direct contract to become "members" is that they do it as soon as possible.

It might not be available for long.

You think people are complaining now, wait until AP discounts become a VIP benefit and VIP benefits include things like extra FPs and concierge type VIP lounges at each resort. I became convinced this was coming when DVD didn't create a concierge level at CCR.

More FP, sounds great, now if only they would hurry up and actually do this.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

There are entire Facebook groups devoted to direct members stomping their feet that it's unfair that resale buyers get to book their own home resorts at 11 months meaning the direct buyers can't get in at 7, and why won't Disney give THEM free dining, and etc.

Disney have done a stellar job of branding a timeshare real estate interest as a special "club" that you're special for belonging to, without necessarily following through on the specialness. (Which: Let's be fair. Anyone eligible to enter into a contract under the laws of Florida, SC, CA or HI who has the money or at least the financing is let in. The exclusivity is solely economic. There is no other barrier to entry.)