DVC eliminates perks for resale

[beer dave]

I wonder, though....currently, the only way to acquire one of the "sold-out" resorts is to buy resale. Certainly, DVD must know that there are many potential new buyers out there who want to own at one of these resorts and will only purchase if their preferred resort is available. Based on that, I would think that if resale prices "plummet", DVD would benefit from more aggressive ROFR in order to have a supply of over-priced points at ALL of the DVC resorts. If they wanted to reclaim points at the popular, sold-out resorts, I would think that resale prices would need to go UP in order to avoid ROFR. Of course, when they get too high, then people will realize that the price difference between resale and direct may be just small enough to justify the direct purchase in order to get the full membership benefits. At that point, DVD will have a nice stockpile of points that they acquired via ROFR at the lower prices and they could sell them to those willing to pay more for the direct benefits.

Another thought...many have mentioned that the menial perks (with the exception of the AP discount) are really not worth the extra cost. If I were to buy today, I would not even consider buying direct because it would take me over a decade to break even on the food and merchandise discounts, I don't plan my trips around "member-exclusive" events, I can get similar discounts with my Disney Visa, and I have no need for the exchange options. So, that leads me to wonder...now that they have restricted resales about as much as they can, what is the next step in making a direct purchase more appealing? Perhaps it is MORE benefits to new direct (and current) owners???

You can acquire sold out resorts from DVD-- you have to go on a waitlist.

I think they don't want the new buyers who only want to pay a deeply discounted rate for their product-- so going forward, if you pay the discounted rate, you get a lesser product.

I agree with the possibility of ROFR and resale prices increasing if they would take more in-- just don't think they will... the cost of setting and carrying the new department for holding, monitoring, paying dues, etc on those contracts would possibly eliminate any gains. Think of flipping a house--- time is as big of an element as is cost of repair and renovation... technically they would be carrying real estate.

My favorite perk right now is the 10 to 20% off of dinning. I think that is a pretty big deal. I guess it all depends how you spend on trips.

And I agree as I postulated in my post-- the perks very well may be increasing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think they don't want the new buyers who only want to pay a deeply discounted rate for their product-- so going forward, if you pay the discounted rate, you get a lesser product.

That would go to my "we don't want budgets" philosophy that I've been warning about for 3 or so years now, would it not?

 

[Minniesgal]

Was the contract executed? If so you have a legal case for breach of contract, but only if all parties have signed.

If they changed the terms after you bid a lawyer should either be able to get the original terms, or get you out of the contract.

Not a lawyer, but I am a subcontracts administrator so I deal with similar stuff a lot.

I really don't see how there is breach of contract since perks are not contractual

Also the changes were not made by any party part of the contract but by a third party (Disney). This is a none starter

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I really don't see how there is breach of contract since perks are not contractual

Also the changes were not made by any party part of the contract but by a third party (Disney). This is a none starter

Agree

Honestly...they just screwed a block of people.

If they had announced a policy change effective X...so that contracts could be worked out - then it would have been a standup move.

But Just like they randomly increase ticket prices at 3 am...it's kinda points to philosophy...

And again - that philosophy is "we don't like your kind if you aren't willing to pay whatever we feel like charging you"

 

[cel_disney]

Agree

Honestly...they just screwed a block of people.

If they had announced a policy change effective X...so that contracts could be worked out - then it would have been a standup move.

But Just like they randomly increase ticket prices at 3 am...it's kinda points to philosophy...

And again - that philosophy is "we don't like your kind if you aren't willing to pay whatever we feel like charging you"

But one of the main reasons people are willing to spend that much direct is because they know they can sell it if they need to. That was certainly part of the sales pitch discussions when we bought in! If the resale market is impacted - I expect it could reduce the likelihood of folks being willing to pay those high prices upfront.

As a side note - anyone think that this is one of the reasons the delayed opening the new Epcot lounge?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But one of the main reasons people are willing to spend that much direct is because they know they can sell it if they need to. That was certainly part of the sales pitch discussions when we bought in! If the resale market is impacted - I expect it could reduce the likelihood of folks being willing to pay those high prices upfront.

As a side note - anyone think that this is one of the reasons the delayed opening the new Epcot lounge?

There'll just change the sales pitch

"You can sell it if you pay double upfront"

That's basically how it plays out.

Saratoga used $67

Wilderness lodge phase 1 $62

Wilderness lodge phase 2 $190

 

[kristenrice]

You can acquire sold out resorts from DVD-- you have to go on a waitlist.

I thought I had read that they "closed" the waitlists? Maybe not at all of the resorts, but I thought that when GFV sold out, they either closed or never started a WL in the first place.

While I understand that there is definitely a cost in "flipping" the points, my point was that if resale prices "plummet" (like AKV to $55/pt, or something dramatic), then it would seem that DVD would jump all over those contracts (like they would now!) and POOF! They have unrestricted points at a 2057 resort that they can resell at the "bargain" price of $150/point with all perks included.

Obviously, this will keep resale prices at a more reasonable rate so I don't think the prices will bottom out like some folks fear. Current owners will still be able to resell their contracts and new buyers will need to do the same thing they do now...weigh the value of the perks against the extra costs of buying direct.

 

[sachilles]

Couldn't you just buy a minimal block through the official channels, and fill in the rest from the resale pool? Seems that would be the way to game the system, and take advantage of the sure to be dropping value of the resale pool.

One would think if they were wise, they'd expire perks across the board. Then offer unique perks available only at your selected home resort. The true goal is to sell out the points, and they've diluted the market on themselves.

 

[Maineiak]

I admittedly haven't read all of the pages of this thread, but I'm not surprised by this more from Disney. Others in the timeshare market already do this.

Our family owns multiple timeshare units, all based here in Maine. We've purchased on the resale market units for only $500-$1,000 per unit and haven't ever really had an issue exchanging to a market we want (FL, Caribbean, Mexico, other US states). This has allowed us to go on many more vacations than we would have otherwise. For example, we've stayed at the Marriott Grande Vista on International drive 3-4 times over the past 8 years. 3 bedroom condo, full kitchen, huge properties, multiple pools...all for an exchange fee of just $175. To me, that's a steal.

We've been to sales pitches where they preach that you don't get the benefits of direct sale with buying a resale. We just roll our eyes.

Our favorite was at The BlueGreen Fountains (a property we love) on International Drive. The conversation with the sales guy went as follows:

Him: "well, you won't be able to trade in here unless you buy direct and this is your home resort, demand is just to high."
Me: "How do you think we got here? We traded in."
Him: "Well, you must have been lucky, that's difficult"
Me: "This is our third time trading into this property"
Him: Clearly pissed off....got up to go get the big guns (manager) for the hard sale. No such luck.

To me, the Orlando market is way over saturated with timeshares. We can virtually get any size unit we want, any time. While we haven't traded into a DVC yet, we've seen them available through the RCI network, they just happen to be at times we're not traveling, but to me that's no big deal.

 

[rungoofy]

Couldn't you just buy a minimal block through the official channels, and fill in the rest from the resale pool? Seems that would be the way to game the system, and take advantage of the sure to be dropping value of the resale pool.

One would think if they were wise, they'd expire perks across the board. Then offer unique perks available only at your selected home resort. The true goal is to sell out the points, and they've diluted the market on themselves.

I believe that is a minimum 100 point investment at $168 per point plus closing fees.

 

[Eoghann]

Thank you, Eoghann. My contract clearly states, "Do not purchase your Ownership Interest in reliance on your ability to transfer these products, services and Incidental Benefits." I guess at this point I need to know what Disney defined as Incidental Benefits as of 03/30/2016, when my contract was signed.

Ouch, that wording technically leaves it open to eliminate resale completely.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I believe that is a minimum 100 point investment at $168 per point plus closing fees.

That's significantly more than my 200 points.

 

[Lothlórien]

DVC continues to dilute their product. DVC is telling a potential purchaser by these actions that once you buy the membership you are our future competition and we are going to do everything we can devalue your asset to make our overpriced product more appealing. I would no longer recommend friends and family to join because of these actions.

If you are going to spend an additional $50 -60 per point for a petty discount on crappy merchandise or terrible ding experience then you are a fool. We have owned since 98 at OKW. In the 18 years since we have purchased our membership we have been shocked at the decline of the original product. The refurbishment of the various resorts is so unimaginative and lazy. I wish DVC management would focus on maintaining the original standards the resort than value engineering and cheapening out the experience. In fairness, it isn't just DVC. It is the whole WDW experience.

Being a Member is no longer magical.......we are just a group of cattle for Disney to milk.

Bingo!! This post nails it.

 

[beer dave]

I thought I had read that they "closed" the waitlists? Maybe not at all of the resorts, but I thought that when GFV sold out, they either closed or never started a WL in the first place.

While I understand that there is definitely a cost in "flipping" the points, my point was that if resale prices "plummet" (like AKV to $55/pt, or something dramatic), then it would seem that DVD would jump all over those contracts (like they would now!) and POOF! They have unrestricted points at a 2057 resort that they can resell at the "bargain" price of $150/point with all perks included.

Obviously, this will keep resale prices at a more reasonable rate so I don't think the prices will bottom out like some folks fear. Current owners will still be able to resell their contracts and new buyers will need to do the same thing they do now...weigh the value of the perks against the extra costs of buying direct.

Maybe they don't ave the wait list anymore-- I haven't called lately.

A year ago I was buying a contract, so I was paying attention to the ROFR thread-- at that time it seemed that some low point sales went through and some didn't... that coupled with no immediate availability for sold outs, led me to believe that they were not going to speculate... otherwise there would be some availability-- pretty sure they don't ROFR anything that is not already wanted. I haven't paid any attention lately since I am currently DVC "full". Still need some BLT to round out-- and could stand to sell some SSR, but probably won't.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Anybody else get their "we're handling the riff riff" letter from DVC Today?

It's so tacky.

 

[kristenrice]

Anybody else get their "we're handling the riff riff" letter from DVC Today?

It's so tacky.

Yup...a printed copy of the letter on the member site...waste of paper and postage...

 

[beer dave]

Yup...a printed copy of the letter on the member site...waste of paper and postage...

I didn't get one-- I feel left out...... I feel like a second class member...... oh agony, agony.....

Wait-- maybe my raff isn't riffy enough....

 

[cel_disney]

I just saw on the DVC Board that they have reversed this for all contracts submitted to Disney before April 3rd. I am happy to see that this sensible judgement has been made!

Still not loving the idea overall - but this atleast feels like the right decision for those that were in contract limbo!

 

[DisneyLovingPreacher]

Ouch, that wording technically leaves it open to eliminate resale completely.

Sadly IMO that is the way it is going. Before long we may only be able to be DVC direct.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I'll be interested to see if Disney does anything regarding the rental market in the next few years.

I have not rented points yet, however we're probably doing it on our next trip.