DVC dues watch 2023

[dcibrando]

still surprised at SSR... not sure why it keeps going up so much compared to some others. Large resort yes, but more owners and dues too

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Large resort yes, but more owners and dues too

But again, it's not just large in terms of number of rooms, it's large in terms of number of buildings.

"More owners" would help bring down costs if it was a ton of rooms crammed into a single tower. But when all the rooms are spread over 20 buildings, the dynamics flip the other direction. So yeah, Saratoga has 3X the number of points paying dues into the pot versus Poly, but they have 6X the number of buildings, 4X the number of pools, 5X the number of bus stops, etc.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Don't forget that these are dues per point. You need to take point costs per room x dues to see the actual cost of a room across the system. There is of course a comparison in % increase year to year where you can tell how much your cost goes up year on year assuming you stay at your home resort all the time. But it's not the whole story if you're comparing dues per point between different resorts.

 

[Genie+]

Don't forget that these are dues per point. You need to take point costs per room x dues to see the actual cost of a room across the system. There is of course a comparison in % increase year to year where you can tell how much your cost goes up year on year assuming you stay at your home resort all the time. But it's not the whole story if you're comparing dues per point between different resorts.

Great point! Take a week in May, dues cost for a studio would be:

Resort	Points	Room	Dues	Total Dues
BLT	109	std	7.425	$809
BLT	128	lake		$1287
BWV	73	std	8.530	$623
BWV	107	pool/BW		$912
BCV	107	-	8.165	$874
GFV	125	std	7.333	$917
GFV	153	lake		$1122
OKW	78	-	9.357	$730
RIV	116	std	8.505	$987
RIV	143	pref		$1216
Poly	125	std	7.948	$994

The standard studios are bolded.
OKW may have high dues but dues paid is still well below average cost for that week.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

OKW may have high dues but dues paid is still well below average cost for that week.

Yeah but so is rack rate, so the cash you "save" by staying there for "free" is less.

 

[Tiggerette]

For the SSR increase: Does anyone remember the lawsuit with a contractor that was performing work at SSR and outlined in the suit that there was subcode construction that needed to be brought up to code? I believe it had something to so with walls, maybe firewalls, or something along those lines. This was 1-2 yrs prior pandemic, but my memory may not be reliable here.

Anyways, my point is that in addition to the housekeeping increases, there might be other planned maintenance needs in the future. (Also, didn't SSR just undergo a refurb? Maybe that's impactful as well?)

I sound like a magical bus driver with all this "helpful" knowledge!

 

[Paul Stupin]

Just an update on this... my payments weren't contract-specific, but they were membership-specific.

I think you can do it either way. Member Services told me to just keep crediting my first contract, since I had no balance due from 2022. It shows as a credit both ways.

 

[Halle]

I think you can do it either way. Member Services told me to just keep crediting my first contract, since I had no balance due from 2022. It shows as a credit both ways.

I have 2 Boardwalk contracts and overpaid on the smaller contract . I called MS and they transferred the funds from one contract to another.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I have 2 Boardwalk contracts and overpaid on the smaller contract . I called MS and they transferred the funds from one contract to another.

When dues came do in June on my new VGF contracts, they just deducted them from my overpayment I had on the contract to which I keep adding credit. Am sure they‘ll do the same when annual dues are posted next month.

 

[Sandisw]

Great point! Take a week in May, dues cost for a studio would be:

Resort	Points	Room	Dues	Total Dues
BLT	109	std	7.425	$809
BLT	128	lake		$1287
BWV	73	std	8.530	$623
BWV	107	pool/BW		$912
BCV	107	-	8.165	$874
GFV	125	std	7.333	$917
GFV	153	lake		$1122
OKW	78	-	9.357	$730
RIV	116	std	8.505	$987
RIV	143	pref		$1216
Poly	125	std	7.948	$994

The standard studios are bolded.
OKW may have high dues but dues paid is still well below average cost for that week.

The flip side is that if someone decides to stay elsewhere that is not the home resort, then it can end up differently .

For example, using Poly points to stay at SSR is costing you less in dues than the SSR owner will pay.

Granted, buy in for Poly is more, buy if looking just at dues, then it can change,

In my case, it’s less expensive for me to use my RIV points at RIV then use my SSR points when just looking at dues for the night.

 

[Unclelude]

PSA ... This is a savvy group, but I thought I'd throw this out there... I've been getting promos on CCs lately for 10% cash back! My wells Fargo card has it for grocery stores ... works for gift cards... No limit!! ( Have to split into a bunch of $150 txns)

So add the 10% plus the gas coupons for grocery spend... Not too shabby

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Yeah but so is rack rate, so the cash you "save" by staying there for "free" is less.

That's a very different discussion isn't it?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's a very different discussion isn't it?

Not really. Value is what you get for what you pay. Focusing exclusively on what you pay (whether in points or dollars) missed half the equation.

 

[jerseygal]

AKV $8.8099 (6.9% increase)

AKV… We have 200 points… $156 increase over 2022… that is a 9.7 percent increase over last yr…. 200 points times $ 8.03 was $1606 in 2022 for 200 points… estimated 2023 is $8.8099 times 200 points is $1762 less $1606 is $156 increase divided by last years dues of $1606 is 9.7 percent increase…
Thats horrible…. How did you calculate 6.9 percent? Unhappy!Unteasonable

 

[CaptainAmerica]

AKV… We have 200 points… $156 increase over 2022… that is a 9.7 percent increase over last yr…. 200 points times $ 8.03 was $1606 in 2022 for 200 points… estimated 2023 is $8.8099 times 200 points is $1762 less $1606 is $156 increase divided by last years dues of $1606 is 9.7 percent increase…
Thats horrible…. How did you calculate 6.9 percent? Unhappy!Unteasonable

2022 dues were not $8.03, they were $8.24.

 

[DebbieB]

This is my first year paying dues. I just read through the 2022 annual meeting notice for BWV. One thing that really stuck out to me is that they only budgeted $871k for breakage for 2023. That seems super low. Based on my understanding, that's Disney selling DVC rooms at cash rates, correct? If that's the case, then that is only about $2400 a day which is only about 3-5 rooms a day on average that they are getting cash for? Wouldn't that mean that the DVC points booking is a very high? I know that the availability calendars tell a similar story but this seems to prove it. (someone please kindly enlighten me if I'm way off here... still learning)

It’s only points rooms that were empty at 60 days and got moved to cash. Which probably isn’t very often.

It doesn’t include rooms from points DVC owns or points traded out for cruises, etc.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It’s only points rooms that were empty at 60 days and got moved to cash. Which probably isn’t very often.

They're allowed to make a "reasonable estimate" of breakage and sell rooms ahead of the 60 day mark.

 

[drusba]

This is my first year paying dues. I just read through the 2022 annual meeting notice for BWV. One thing that really stuck out to me is that they only budgeted $871k for breakage for 2023. That seems super low. Based on my understanding, that's Disney selling DVC rooms at cash rates, correct? If that's the case, then that is only about $2400 a day which is only about 3-5 rooms a day on average that they are getting cash for? Wouldn't that mean that the DVC points booking is a very high? I know that the availability calendars tell a similar story but this seems to prove it. (someone please kindly enlighten me if I'm way off here... still learning)

The breakage income being estimated in the budget is simply the amount that actually goes to offset dues of the members which is no more than 2.5% of the total annual dues (without considering property taxes and some other items). The actual amount of breakage income is always much higher than that offset amount. Breakage income goes first to provide for that offset, anything in excess of that amount then goes to BVTC (the DVC entity that handles trade outs to non-owned DVC resorts at 7-months out and to non-DVC and non-Disney resorts) to cover its costs plus 5% of its total costs (i.e., a built in profit), and then any breakage income after that goes to DVCM (the managing entity for all DVC resorts) as profit. Annually, the actual total breakage income for all DVC resorts has exceeded both the dues offset amount and the BVTC amount applicable to the resorts.

My guess as to why Riviera has not increased much is simply that DVC greatly over-estimated original annual dues when the resort opened and dues are now just approaching what they should be. As to increases elsewhere, including high ones at SSR and OKW, my guess is it is a combination of an inflation factor and that a new union contract is currently in negotiation for all the union workers at WDW (who are mostly employed by the Disney parks and resorts entity and not DVC -- DVC simply pays its share of the total employee costs). The 2016 contract, which had annual raises, has now expired and they are still negotiating a new one (next meeting is end of Nov), but my understanding is that wage and benefit increases being demanded are significant, including because of the inflation factor. Your dues for next year include a probable significant estimated wage increase, and SSR's and OKW's issue is that they have a huge number of employees working there, including housekeeping and for doing maintenance of the huge amounts of property included with the resorts, and, as purely DVC resorts, no share of the total union amounts applicable to OKW and SSR are being covered by a Disney resort also on the property.

 

[jerseygal]

2022 dues were not $8.03, they were $8.24.

As my post said previously, Our total annual dues that were payable in Feb of 2022 were $1605 for 200 points. That is $8.025 per point. Now for 2023 the estimated annual dues assessment is 1762 for 200 points. The $1605 for2022 was NET of property taxes of $41.78. My assumption is that the 2023 Estimated AnnuL Dues Assessment does not have any credit for Property Taxes in yet, the final dues payable in feb 2023 should have a credit for property taxes in it.

 

[Judique]

As my post said previously, Our total annual dues that were payable in Feb of 2022 were $1605 for 200 points. That is $8.025 per point. Now for 2023 the estimated annual dues assessment is 1762 for 200 points. The $1605 for2022 was NET of property taxes of $41.78. My assumption is that the 2023 Estimated AnnuL Dues Assessment does not have any credit for Property Taxes in yet, the final dues payable in feb 2023 should have a credit for property taxes in it.

According to the condo notice, the 2023 estimated dues assessment includes estimated annual operating budget, estimated annual capital reserves budget and estimated ad valorem taxes.

I really hope you are correct and we do get a credit but won't hold my breath.