DVC answers re: transportation/dues--still singing the same off key tune...

[LarryM]

I have been following this debate pretty closely. I just got back from a stay 12/3-12/10 and what I observed was that the BW had to share a bus with the Swan and Dolphin while the Yacht and Beach had there own. All of the stops I saw at the parks were labled this was as well. The only time it was other was at night coming from the MVMCP while I was waiting on line for our bus , the yacht and beach bus just pulled out. When the BW bus pulled up they asked the Y&B crowd to join our bus which made the BW the last stop of five. The same courtesy was not extended to us though. The transport arrangement does not make sense to me because the S&D and BW must have more combined rooms that just the Y&B but yet they get there own bus.You use to find the total rooms in the Birnbaum book but not this year I will have to find an old one and check it out, gather my thoughts and ask the questions of the right person.

 

[SoCalKDG]

I have been following this debate pretty closely. I just got back from a stay 12/3-12/10 and what I observed was that the BW had to share a bus with the Swan and Dolphin while the Yacht and Beach had there own. All of the stops I saw at the parks were labled this was as well. The only time it was other was at night coming from the MVMCP while I was waiting on line for our bus , the yacht and beach bus just pulled out. When the BW bus pulled up they asked the Y&B crowd to join our bus which made the BW the last stop of five. The same courtesy was not extended to us though. The transport arrangement does not make sense to me because the S&D and BW must have more combined rooms that just the Y&B but yet they get there own bus.You use to find the total rooms in the Birnbaum book but not this year I will have to find an old one and check it out, gather my thoughts and ask the questions of the right person.

Now if BW customers are sharing a bus with S/D, then the % for BWV owners should be lower since S/D customers are being thrown into the mix.

OH, and thanks PKS44 for fighting the good fight.

 

[okwmike]

Bus service costs seem to be high for shared resorts. I didn't see any posts on housekeeping costs. I haven't crunched any numbers on housekeeping yet. The numbers seem high considering that there is not full housekeeping at the DVC resorts. Let's say that the average stay is 4 days long. Keeping in mind a lot of the weekend stays. So housekeeping is cut down to about 2 times per week per unit. (maybe 3 times if you include the trash and tidy which is a quick "in and out" for housekeeping). Mulitply the number of DVC units times 2.5 and divide into the total for housekeeping per unit.

Next up, same thing for bus service. Take the total cost charged to DVC to the resort and divide by 365 days. This will give you the cost per day for the service to each DVC resort.

Sorry folks, I don't have all the numbers in front of me right now to do the calculations.

How much is too much. Creative accounting between divisions? Is each DVC resort paying duplicate services? Fees on top of costs is how management makes money. Does any know if front desk services and room schedules are still handled by OKW for SS. Duplicate administration costs for the same operation. Just make the percentages look good and normal based on industry averages.

Hey what's $50 to $75 more per member per year. If you are DVC and have 100,000 members that could be a $7.5 million dollar overcharge. Over a few years that's a lot of money, PERIOD!

 

[manning]

What's the recourse????

 

[bcvillastwo]

I presume that what we want is equitable cost allocation. With the information provided above I'm not sure I have sufficient information to determine if the Disney/DVC cost allocation method is equitable or not.

If I were to audit this at a minimum I would want to know the following:

1. What resorts are included in the calculations? Do the following resorts BWV and Boardwalk; BCV, Beach Club, and Yacht Club; and Swan and Dolphin all share the same buses? At one time they did, but it sounds as if this might have changed recently. The bottom line is that I need to which resorts are in the calcuation and which are out.

2. Once I know what is in and what is out I need to determine who is responsible for the costs. For instance, if I understand things correctly BWV and BW have three different owners. BWV is owned partly by DVC members and partly by DVC while BW is owned by Disney. I believe this is correct for BCV and BC and YC and so on. If my assumption is correct, this is important because costs would be allocated three ways for two sites and one way for Swan and Dolphin (if they are in the mix). I recognize that my assumptions about the 3 way split at BCV, BC, and YC and BWV and BW may be incorrect but I would still want the information. I could adjust something out if necessary.

3.The next think I need to do is understand the allocation method. In this case it seems to be the numbe of Key's. But, I don't know what this really means and from what I've read up to this point neither does anyone else.

4. Next, I need to know total transportation costs for all resorts that are served by the system.

5. I would then want to spend time with the accountants who actually derived the allocation method currently being used and have them walk me through their assumptions and their math to make sure I undertand how they reached their bottom line.

Armed with this information I believe I would have the basis for determining whether the allocation method used by Disney/DVC is equitable or not.

I'm not certain if the number of bus stops would be a factor on not. My initial thought is that it probably isn't. But, I could probably be pursuaded otherwise.

The bottom line for me is that we simply don't have enough information to form a conclusion if the allocation method used by Disney/DVC is equitable or not.

 

[Simba's Mom]

What's the recourse????

That's a very good point. What can the members do, if anything, if the dues seem unfairly high. Also, I thought there was something somewhere (but naturally, now I can't find it) guaranteeing that our dues wouldn't go up more than a certain percentage per year. And I thought that guarantee was less than the 9% increase that's happening at OKW. Anyone know anything about what I think I remember who can clarify it for me?

 

[CarolMN]

That's a very good point. What can the members do, if anything, if the dues seem unfairly high. Also, I thought there was something somewhere (but naturally, now I can't find it) guaranteeing that our dues wouldn't go up more than a certain percentage per year. And I thought that guarantee was less than the 9% increase that's happening at OKW. Anyone know anything about what I think I remember who can clarify it for me?

The only cap on dues that I recall is the one imposed by Florida state law - no more than 15% increase per year.

The dues are supposed to reflect the operating costs of the resort.

Best wishes -

 

[manning]

The only cap on dues that I recall is the one imposed by Florida state law - no more than 15% increase per year.

The dues are supposed to reflect the operating costs of the resort.

Best wishes -

Dues can go higher than 15%. Above that it has to be put to the vote of the membership.

 

[girth]

I believe it was 15% max increase per year.

 

[Disney Doll]

Everytime I state my opinion on these boards, I get attacked. Actually I've noticed others being attacked for their opinions to. Why are you all so very sensitive and overly protective of Disney? No place is perfect, and isn't expected to be ............but if I want to say something about Disney that is not all sweetness and light, I should be able to without being attacked...........

I'm not sure who attacked you, as I reread the thread and don't see anything that looks "attacky"...I just see folks expressing their opinion, just as you did.

Disney is a big corporation. They make lots of money. I am sure that they are ripping off the consumers left and right. I also enjoy it there, and if $10 extra dues is what they need to continue to let me enjoy it, then so be it.

I hold no illusions that Disney is anything other than what it is...a large corporation. They just happen to be a large corporation that does something that I enjoy immensely, and therefore I am willing to pay for it. When the day comes that I am no longer willing to pay for it, or being there worrying about the $10 month more that my dues are costing overshadows my enjoyment of my stay there, I will sell the DVC and move on to the next place in the world that will become my "home away from home".

At the moment, I am fortunate enough that the extra $10 is not an issue. I am also glad that there are folks who have the time and inclination to keep there eyes on stuff like this, so I can worry about what I consider the important things in life.

 

[Disney Doll]

Quoted by a precious poster -

"My total dues for 2 contracts at OKW is about $120. A 9% increase is going to bring it up to $130.

$10 is not enough of an increase to make me even care about an increase. It's 33 cents per day.

I'll buy 2 less Starbucks if it becomes that much of a burden.

Let's keep it in perspective people."

Sorry but I don't understand how you have only $120 dues with two contracts - that would have to be two 15 point contracts right?
__________________

$120 per month...about $1200 per year. I have 2 contracts totalling 430 points at OKW. I am rounding off numbers. If you want the specific amounts, please PM and I'll be happy to share the exact amounts with you.

Sorry, I should have made that clearer...I assumed folks would understand that I was talking about the monthly dues cost, since the OP referenced monthly dues payments.

And thanks for the "precious poster" comment...I hope the Tag fairy is watching, because that could be a good one!!!!

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, I thought that Disney Transportation is included in virtually every admission ticket medium............I also don't think that the extra 5 minutes per stop (40 people getting on the bus with most of them having to fumble in purse/wallet to fish out their ID) would be worth it..............Hey, these '........' are addictive..............

I agree.
And I also love the "...................."

 

[Bill K]

Wow! My Brain hurts!!!

 

[manning]

I believe it was 15% max increase per year.

They can if they get 60 percent written approval of the unit ownership.

Also capital reserve in not covered in the increase requirement.

 

[Dean]

Dues can go higher than 15%. Above that it has to be put to the vote of the membership.

And that doesn't include the real estate taxes I believe.

Here is my take. DVC is basing their divisions on occupancy. I'm assuming they are doing so based on the actual number of keys they've made during the year. My timeshare background says that BCV pays all the dues associated with their resort and BWV does the same. And if there are built in savings for one compare to another, so be it. My understanding is BWI has 378 rooms and BWV 383. BC has 583 rooms and BCV 205. YC has an additional 539 rooms. With one stop at each resort for buses but only one stop total for the boats. So it would be appropriate to lump the BC & YC together for the boats and separately for the Buses.

Of course the occupancy and average occupancy per room are unknown to us though likely higher at the Villas than the regular hotels. Looking at this info, I'd expect BWV to have a higher transportation cost and front desk cost assuming one bus for all 3 routinely and lumping YC/BC together on the boats.

To figure this out completely we'd need the average occupancy for each resort component compared to the number of rooms. We'd also need some measure of usage of each modality for each resort component. One other issue is how Disney allocates the cycle time since it takes more time to get to BWV from YC & BC. Another is if they have to dispense buses for specific resorts at peak times and charge those resorts separately, esp BWV.

 

[Daitcher]

I'm not sure who attacked you, as I reread the thread and don't see anything that looks "attacky"...I just see folks expressing their opinion, just as you did.

Disney is a big corporation. They make lots of money. I am sure that they are ripping off the consumers left and right. I also enjoy it there, and if $10 extra dues is what they need to continue to let me enjoy it, then so be it.

I hold no illusions that Disney is anything other than what it is...a large corporation. They just happen to be a large corporation that does something that I enjoy immensely, and therefore I am willing to pay for it. When the day comes that I am no longer willing to pay for it, or being there worrying about the $10 month more that my dues are costing overshadows my enjoyment of my stay there, I will sell the DVC and move on to the next place in the world that will become my "home away from home".



Well said Disney Doll))))) Life is too short.

DAVE

 

[Dean]

When ever I see the "if you don't like it, sell!" response I think back to the old prodigy boards. There was a member from J'ville who threw this around like water. Regardless who he directed it to I wanted to reach through the internet and grab him by the neck and hold on until he passed out. It was and is very rude. Certainly it the extreme it is an appropriate approach however, the way it is normally used is not reasonable. It is appropriate to attempt change from the inside of any system and should be the preferred method to handle most any problem.

 

[Cindi0511]

If, and only if, this is all based on the number of keys, we may be really overpaying. I couldn't tell you how many times a room has been changed and we've received new keys for the same stay. Also, sometimes they give keys for the younger kids and sometimes they don't. Surely there would have to be a more accurate way of calculating occupancy.

All very interesting. Thanks OP for staying on their tails. I certainly don't have the time or inclination to do so right now with two very small children requiring most of my attention, but I am thankful someone else does. Please let us know!

Edited to clarify: I'm not saying the keys issue is the only issue. It was too late for me to be writing clearly. What I was addressing was ONLY the keys issue, and the way that tons of extra, non-used keys could really skew the results. I am very, very happy the OP and others out there do take the necessary amount of time to keep Disney and anyone else out there on track, and some day, when the kids are grown and gone, maybe I'll be able to pay it back with my own time, tenacity and efforts. Thanks so much, Paul! (I know you can't see my body language and hear the tone of my voice, and e-mail/messages can sometimes come across vastly differently than they were intended, and I didn't want that to happen in my case. When I reread my post today, it wasn't what was in my head last night.

 

[Daitcher]

Sorry guys just wanted to drop a quick note. The more I've followed this the more I think the OP is on to something. Just wanted to thank him for taking the time to do this.


DAVE

 

[mitymott]

Thank you PKS44,
As an owner at BWV I thank you for voicing the concerns that many of us share.
Keep up the fight,