DVC and Deluxe should get more FP+ and an earlier window

[Planogirl]

Although they moved away from the "equal in the parks" philosophy, at least between onsite and offsite guests, first when they introduced EMH, and then now with advanced FP+ booking windows.

I'm not bothered by EMH because that is time outside the window promised to offsite people. However I'm not thrilled with the 30 vs. 60 day windows because to me it implies that one group who buys tickets is seen as less than others who buy tickets. I guess that I just see admission as admission and that all of it should come with all park bells and whistles during regular business hours.

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

Yet again conservatively you have paid $93.27 per night to stay onsite seven nights per year for 30 years.
$93.27 is mathematically less than the $100 per night you ascribe to Value resort rooms.
Therefore, Value resort guests should get more FastPasses than you get.

I am no math-wiz nor am I an expert on DVC. But what I've gathered is the following:

$20,000 for a 30-year contract. That breaks down to $667 a year. So a 7 night stay would be about $95 a night at a Deluxe Villa property - be it a studio, 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom, however many points he purchased. Plus annual dues - maybe $600/year? So add that on and we're at $181/night for a Deluxe Villa property. A studio at OKW during low season goes for $300-ish a night.

So yes, he's buying in bulk for a 30-year guarantee. And if OP opts to not go that year, he can always try to "sell" his points online.

The the OP is actually the riff-raff he/she feels so superior to? At the prices it is paying they should be limited to only 1 FP+ per day and no Tier 1s and Epcot or DHS.

 

[Stinky_Pete]

I am no math-wiz nor am I an expert on DVC. But what I've gathered is the following:

$20,000 for a 30-year contract. That breaks down to $667 a year. So a 7 night stay would be about $95 a night at a Deluxe Villa property - be it a studio, 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom, however many points he purchased. Plus annual dues - maybe $600/year? So add that on and we're at $181/night for a Deluxe Villa property. A studio at OKW during low season goes for $300-ish a night.

So yes, he's buying in bulk for a 30-year guarantee. And if OP opts to not go that year, he can always try to "sell" his points online.

You've pretty much got it. There's the initial purchase and then the annual dues, which are a certain amount per point on the purchaser's contract. And if someone doesn't use the points that year they can bank them for the next year.

Before I purchased in '99 I was doing all the math I could think of on cocktail napkins during lunch at Spoodles. It came down to this: A two bedroom villa at BoardWalk Resort cost what one room at a moderate resort during off season with a discount cost. So I bought. In 1999.

We had no park ticket discounts at that time, but it was still a bargain.

The per point price has gone up considerably since then...but I'm sure it's still a bargain for staying in a deluxe resort for years to come.

My partner and I split in 2005. My only mistake in that breakup was saying to sell our DVC. I now wish we had kept it and we just alternated years. Let that be a lesson to the rest of you!

 

[Planogirl]

I've mentioned before that all of this talk about how much someone spends can get a little silly. How do you measure the family who eats every meal at expensive Disney restaurants and spends tons of money on souvenirs but is maybe staying at the Waldorf to the family that is staying at the Allstars and getting free dining and buying few souvenirs? You really can't. Disney might be making a ton more on the Waldorf family so this talk of money spent is meaningless.

However I do agree that the OP should get just one FP+.

 

[ponyboy]

I am no math-wiz nor am I an expert on DVC. But what I've gathered is the following:

$20,000 for a 30-year contract. That breaks down to $667 a year. So a 7 night stay would be about $95 a night at a Deluxe Villa property - be it a studio, 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom, however many points he purchased. Plus annual dues - maybe $600/year? So add that on and we're at $181/night for a Deluxe Villa property. A studio at OKW during low season goes for $300-ish a night.

So yes, he's buying in bulk for a 30-year guarantee. And if OP opts to not go that year, he can always try to "sell" his points online.

Yes, your math is off. Disney doesn't finance for 30 years and they want, I think, 10% down. So $2000 up front and $18,000 financed for 10 years at, I believe, 7% interest is about $2500/year. I don't know what annual dues are so we'll go with your $600 so that's $3100 per year. I know those figures aren't exact but they're closer than what you estimated.

That would make your 7 night stay $442 a night. Though the initial cost drops after the note is paid off and you're down to only paying annual dues. So if you cost average over 30 years it's cheaper but in the beginning the cost would be much higher than paying directly out of pocket.

 

[kmb584]

Wrong.

If you are a DVC member you get a discount on an annual pass. A pass that can ONLY be used for theme park admission.

There already is a link between dvc and theme park admission.

I also get a discount when I renew our regular annual passes. It's also a pass that can ONLY be used for theme park admission. There is NO direct link between DVC and an annual pass. You buy one or you don't.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, your math is off. Disney doesn't finance for 30 years and they want, I think, 10% down. So $2000 up front and $18,000 financed for 10 years at, I believe, 7% interest is about $2500/year. I don't know what annual dues are so we'll go with your $600 so that's $3100 per year. I know those figures aren't exact but they're closer than what you estimated.

That would make your 7 night stay $442 a night. Though the initial cost drops after the note is paid off and you're down to only paying annual dues. So if you cost average over 30 years it's cheaper but in the beginning the cost would be much higher than paying directly out of pocket.

The math is only off if they ARE financing. You don't need do. We didn't. Most experts will agree that if you have to finance at that level, you shouldn't be buying DVC.

 

[houstonmama]

I stay deluxe & don't feel I deserve more FP options. Our favorite is Gf. We pay for GF because we like the bigger rooms, the lobby & grounds are beautiful, more dining options & proximity to MK among other things. We all pay the SAME price to get into the parks so we all get the same # of FPs. Same thing fort offsite people. Their ticket is just as expensive as mine!!

 

[dizprincess717]

The the OP is actually the riff-raff he/she feels so superior to? At the prices it is paying they should be limited to only 1 FP+ per day and no Tier 1s and Epcot or DHS.

For acting like a spoiled brat he should get no FP+

You've pretty much got it. There's the initial purchase and then the annual dues, which are a certain amount per point on the purchaser's contract. And if someone doesn't use the points that year they can bank them for the next year.

Before I purchased in '99 I was doing all the math I could think of on cocktail napkins during lunch at Spoodles. It came down to this: A two bedroom villa at BoardWalk Resort cost what one room at a moderate resort during off season with a discount cost. So I bought. In 1999.

We had no park ticket discounts at that time, but it was still a bargain.

The per point price has gone up considerably since then...but I'm sure it's still a bargain for staying in a deluxe resort for years to come.

My partner and I split in 2005. My only mistake in that breakup was saying to sell our DVC. I now wish we had kept it and we just alternated years. Let that be a lesson to the rest of you!

I might not have all the facts straight, but my husband's family bought OKW when it was first offered and my husband claims they got free park admission for a year or two, but then it wasn't offered a few years down the line. However, he comes from a family of 7 so that 2 bedroom at OKW was exactly what they needed, and they ended up saving a TON of money doing it that way. Of course, several years ago they sold it and they say that it is one of their biggest regrets to this day.

 

[doconeill]

For acting like a spoiled brat he should get no FP+



I might not have all the facts straight, but my husband's family bought OKW when it was first offered and my husband claims they got free park admission for a year or two, but then it wasn't offered a few years down the line. However, he comes from a family of 7 so that 2 bedroom at OKW was exactly what they needed, and they ended up saving a TON of money doing it that way. Of course, several years ago they sold it and they say that it is one of their biggest regrets to this day.

Yes, for the couple of years they did get free Annual Passes, but this was a not anything under contract, but a temporary perk for buying.

 

[dizprincess717]

Yes, your math is off. Disney doesn't finance for 30 years and they want, I think, 10% down. So $2000 up front and $18,000 financed for 10 years at, I believe, 7% interest is about $2500/year. I don't know what annual dues are so we'll go with your $600 so that's $3100 per year. I know those figures aren't exact but they're closer than what you estimated.

That would make your 7 night stay $442 a night. Though the initial cost drops after the note is paid off and you're down to only paying annual dues. So if you cost average over 30 years it's cheaper but in the beginning the cost would be much higher than paying directly out of pocket.

The math is only off if they ARE financing. You don't need do. We didn't. Most experts will agree that if you have to finance at that level, you shouldn't be buying DVC.

Agreed with doconeill - my husband's family bought OKW the very year it came out. The are a family of 7 in total, so for them it made sense and they had the means to afford to buy it up front. So the only thing they paid were their annual dues.

This is also when you need to sit down and do the math. What's the interest rate you are getting to finance it? If it works out to be more than the per-night rate during the time frame you usually travel to Disney World, why purchase it? Like a previous poster mentioned - they sat down and did the math and it worked out to be less per night for a 2-bedroom at the Boardwalk than a regular room at a moderate Disney hotel.

My husband and I have considered buying it but when we broke it all down it didn't make enough sense. We shouldn't buy into DVC just to say we own DVC. Plus, me being in the travel industry does have its perks for small discounts here and there, but I am also penalized because I cannot actually purchase my ticket until I am checked-in at OKW. So I can't make any FP+ reservations.

But, unlike the OP, I am not complaining over it. I'm going to Disney World and that's all I really care about

 

[jtopp]

When we first joined DVC in 1998, there were a few small perks that have since expired. Would it be nice if Disney offered more perks? Yes! Do I feel entitled, since I spent money on a timeshare that I should get discounts to the theme parks. No. I fully understood exactly what I was getting when I signed up, realizing that Disney was offering perks to increase DVC membership, and nothing more. I expect nothing more then what I purchased, and expect DVC to offer nothing additional to me, other then what is contractually obligated. While being separate corporate entities that are somewhat codependant on each other, the truth is this: They already have your money. They do not need to offer additional perks, so they don't. If nothing else, it is good business sense. If you require more, it is your right to PURCHASE more.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Except he's not just buying bulk to save money. He's buying bulk of the highest priced item because that's the only way it's sold, other than "samples" that don't include all of the other perks of ownership.

Except he's not buying a high-priced item. He's paid $500 or $670 or so for each of 30 or 40 years of stays at a DVC property.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes, your math is off. Disney doesn't finance for 30 years and they want, I think, 10% down. So $2000 up front and $18,000 financed for 10 years at, I believe, 7% interest is about $2500/year. I don't know what annual dues are so we'll go with your $600 so that's $3100 per year. I know those figures aren't exact but they're closer than what you estimated.

That would make your 7 night stay $442 a night. Though the initial cost drops after the note is paid off and you're down to only paying annual dues. So if you cost average over 30 years it's cheaper but in the beginning the cost would be much higher than paying directly out of pocket.

The original poster didn't include or reveal dues or interest (and as doconeill indicated financing isn't mandatory) in any post, so we can only work with the information provided.

Even using your assumptions:
$2,500 x ten years + $0 x 20 years / 30 years = $833.33 per year.
Assuming (there's that word again) $600 dues, that's $1,433.33, or $215.67 per night.
Many Moderate rooms cost more than that, as well as the Value suites. No Deluxe resort has rooms priced anywhere near that low.

If the OP has a 40 year contract, the nightly cost drops to $178.57.

Or $3,100/$442 per year/night for ten years plus $600/$85.71 per year/night for 20 years. Again, that's if the purchase was financed and if it's only 30 years.

Disclaimer: all calculations done in my head.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Actually now that they got you to prepay for your accomodations for the next 40 years, I'm not sure you're their main target anymore either.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up, OP you do realize “We GF/Yacht Club Guests” spend more money than you, so I think I should get more than you. It's only fair since I spend about the same amount on accommodations in a single year, than what you have spent for 40+ years of accommodations.

Yet again conservatively you have paid $93.27 per night to stay onsite seven nights per year for 30 years.
$93.27 is mathematically less than the $100 per night you ascribe to Value resort rooms.
Therefore, Value resort guests should get more FastPasses than you get.

Yes, your math is off. Disney doesn't finance for 30 years and they want, I think, 10% down. So $2000 up front and $18,000 financed for 10 years at, I believe, 7% interest is about $2500/year. I don't know what annual dues are so we'll go with your $600 so that's $3100 per year. I know those figures aren't exact but they're closer than what you estimated.

That would make your 7 night stay $442 a night. Though the initial cost drops after the note is paid off and you're down to only paying annual dues. So if you cost average over 30 years it's cheaper but in the beginning the cost would be much higher than paying directly out of pocket.

Well I have to say I read the whole thread and although the OP was very harsh the vast majority of the post were a reasoned and calm discussion of why he was wrong.

As pointed out above, a stay during peak at club level water view is just under $1000/ per night at BC/YC and I was thinking that 30 years for 20K was NOT high end. I would add that I also quoted ponyboy to point out that financing the arrangment is irrelevent. If I put my $5,000 BC bill on a CC that cost me 19% a year and I didn't pay it off for 20 years well that would be me being stupid.

If WDW offered different ticket levels, that had extra FP+, yea, I would pay it because it would be worth it to me, so I understand the argument, get more if you pay more for your ticket, but that has nothing to do with DVC.

I do get the frustration but more if he were an AP holder and found the rules of the ticket had changed mid stream.

 

[Minnie222]

Thanks for all the people doing the maths. But I think it is more complicated than that. DVC is money upfront. One has to calculate net present value (those kind of Economy 100 math）to understand how much you are paying for each hotel night. What I am sure, though, is that Disney is putting this out for their benefit, not ours.

DVC and extra FP+ you ask?
Sure. Of course. Disney give these perks to people who are considering buying into DVC, not the ones who already bought it. How many of you have not seen those DVC booths in the park? The CM or the agent there often say you can attend a DVC talk and get extra FP+. For those who already bought DVC, Disney already got your money, they are less inclined to give you perks, you see. That is, unless you want to buy another DVC?!

The way it works for our family: we don't do DVC. If I want more FP+, and more fun at the parks, I spend an extra day or two at the park! That's when I give money to the mouse, not 20K upfront!

 

[Stinky_Pete]

Thanks for all the people doing the maths. But I think it is more complicated than that. DVC is money upfront. One has to calculate net present value (those kind of Economy 100 math）to understand how much you are paying for each hotel night. What I am sure, though, is that Disney is putting this out for their benefit, not ours.

DVC and extra FP+ you ask?
Sure. Of course. Disney give these perks to people who are considering buying into DVC, not the ones who already bought it. How many of you have not seen those DVC booths in the park? The CM or the agent there often say you can attend a DVC talk and get extra FP+. For those who already bought DVC, Disney already got your money, they are less inclined to give you perks, you see. That is, unless you want to buy another DVC?!

The way it works for our family: we don't do DVC. If I want more FP+, and more fun at the parks, I spend an extra day or two at the park! That's when I give money to the mouse, not 20k up front!

What?

 

[doconeill]

Thanks for all the people doing the maths. But I think it is more complicated than that. DVC is money upfront. One has to calculate net present value (those kind of Economy 100 math）to understand how much you are paying for each hotel night.

If you want to get more complicated with the math, you need to include inflation. That actually still works in on the "DVC member is paying less" side - meaning that a DVC member will pay _even less_ than the calculated amounts, because while inflation will go up on both dues and non-DVC rooms, an X% increase per year is going to be a lot more on a $400/night room than a $60/night dues.

What I am sure, though, is that Disney is putting this out for their benefit, not ours.

Absolutely, in a way. They are getting a large amount of money up front. They can do things with that money sooner. They may not make as much over the long run, but most companies would rather have money up front than over time.

Plus, they get many years of visits, from which they will still receive parks income (tickets, food, souvenirs, etc.).

The dues go towards the self-sustaining of DVC itself.

DVC and extra FP+ you ask?
Sure. Of course. Disney give these perks to people who are considering buying into DVC, not the ones who already bought it. How many of you have not seen those DVC booths in the park? The CM or the agent there often say you can attend a DVC talk and get extra FP+. For those who already bought DVC, Disney already got your money, they are less inclined to give you perks, you see. That is, unless you want to buy another DVC?!

Those extra FP (do they still do that since FP+) were in exchange for your time for the presentation, NOT as an incentive to buy.

 

[deanimal]

Here's another thing you can compare it to: When you sail on a Disney cruise your price can vary quite a bit depending on the cabin you choose. Yet, you're all on the same boat, eating the same food and watching the same shows. You may be paying several thousand more for a balcony cabin than an inside, but the understanding is that your extra money pays for a larger, nicer cabin, not front of the line rights before people who paid less than you.

Now there is a concierge level with some extra perks (special lounge, reserved seats at shows, first choice of excursions, etc) which you pay for accordingly and I can totally see some sort of concierge perks like that coming to Disney World in the future. But right now, you pay a tiered price scale for accommodation based on what perks you want and everyone pays the same for park tickets and gets the same perks. Seems simple to me.

 

[NewRVLady]

Actually now that they got you to prepay for your accomodations for the next 40 years, I'm not sure you're their main target anymore either.

OMG