DUES Info! - All resorts dues have been released

[Stank]

Sorry if I trust the government inspected and regulated company over just your questionable word I guess?

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from your quote up above "your argument is DVC housekeeping costs are majority non-labor housekeeping costs"

That isn't actually what I said at all. We are talking about just the increase from the past year (or the estimated increase for next year technically) not the total budget of housekeeping.

Unless they have broken down the budget further I have zero solid idea what percentage of the "housekeeping" budget is labor vs non-labor, especially since DVC is a very nonstandard housekeeping model.

What the number appears to show is that the increase in non-labor costs just over the past year may have been higher than the increases in labor. AKA The recent inflation of products outpacing the previously agreed upon increase in labor from 2023 before much of the inflation. Or it could be that they chose/had to increase their pay quicker than the agreement required in order to attract new workers.

Either of which I think is totally possible. But I still cannot comment on the total or the percentage of housekeeping costs as labor vs non-labor unless I have the numbers.



Oh yeah, and

No, you just don’t realize (and still don’t) that you said “Nuh-uh” to argue I’m wrong on natural gas markup, only to quote something that precisely said I was right. Pretty hilarious, actually.

And back to housekeeping costs—it is what you were arguing even though you don’t realize it.

If housekeeping labor costs went up by 4.35% and total housekeeping costs went up by 17%, then mathematically housekeeping labor must be <50% of housekeeping costs (it isn’t), OR, the increase in non-housekeeping costs went up astronomically.

Because mathematically if hotel housekeeping labor is 70-80% of hotel housekeeping costs and increased by 4.35%, then non-labor components have to increase by 46.5-67.5% to arrive at 17%.

 

[Genie+]

Should be yes. And VGF will get a credit, I cant believe dues will get even better for VGF! https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...274-2025-property-assessments-and-unofficial-

I totally forgot about that! Almost a dime for every point - yeeha

Probably because BWV was short and needs to pay $.1355pp

Good news is my $.09 VGF 150pts credit of $13.50 will cover my $6.78 BWV 50pts debit

 

[Tatebeck]

No, you just don’t realize (and still don’t) that you said “Nuh-uh” to argue I’m wrong, only to quote something that precisely said I was right. Pretty hilarious, actually.

And back to housekeeping costs—it is what you were arguing even though you don’t realize it.

If housekeeping labor costs went up by 4.35% and total housekeeping costs went up by 17%, then mathematically housekeeping labor must be <50% of housekeeping costs (it isn’t), OR, the increase in non-housekeeping costs went up astronomically.

Because mathematically if hotel housekeeping labor is 70-80% of hotel housekeeping costs and increased by 4.35%, then non-labor components has to increase by 46.5-67.5% to arrive at 17%.

I simply took all the information that every other place/person says as correct vs your unproven word that they are charging you incorrectly. It's possible that they are, and if they are report it to someone and make sure they get a fine or whatever if you wish. Doesn't matter to me. You are just saying "nuh uh" to how the system works with no proof.
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Again, no this is not what I am saying. And there are 0 numbers that I have seen that can actually be used to argue the actual labor % of housekeeping. I do not know the percentages, and neither do you

Please show me where DVC specifically said their housekeeping is 70-80% labor. As I said they are a very non-standard housekeeping system and all of your numbers rely on that unsourced 70-80% claim. And even then that number looks incorrect for standard hotels from a simple search anyway.

They are from what I can find usually 40-65% labor and that is with daily cleaning hotels, and should be substantially lower with non-daily cleaning lodgings.

"Labor typically makes up a significant portion of housekeeping costs, often around 40% of total room cleaning expenses in hotels, and over 65% of total housekeeping expenses according to one report. This can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations."

 

[mkatsy]

I'm not offended, but no.

First of all, renting is a miniscule portion of DVC stays in percentage terms. Second, OKW is extremely unpopular with renters. Have you ever spent time in a DVC rental Facebook group? The #1 request by a mile is "looking to rent points anywhere except for Old Key West or Saratoga Springs." Renters are not lining up to book OKW just because it's cheap. The jankiest renters I run into are usually looking for Poly, Boardwalk, and Beach Club.

Just walk around the resorts, visually. Old Key West and Saratoga Springs have a way higher percentage of owners-as-guests than the other properties do.

Yes but the question was, what’s the secret to the low VGF dues. What are they doing differently than everyone else? I can tell you from living locally that people rent OKW and SSR to throw their parties there. What percentage that makes up of the total rental business is probably small, but it’s not nothing.

 

[Tatebeck]

Yes but the question was, what’s the secret to the low VGF dues. What are they doing differently than everyone else? I can tell you from living locally that people rent OKW and SSR to throw their parties there. What percentage that makes up of the total rental business is probably small, but it’s not nothing.

That makes sense. Cheap rooms for a birthday party or something. And available with pretty short notice usually. Not to mention all the OKW and SSR that get thrown out there for the Interval International crowd. That would qualify as a type of "rental" in my book

 

[walt34]

Yes but the question was, what’s the secret to the low VGF dues. What are they doing differently than everyone else? I can tell you from living locally that people rent OKW and SSR to throw their parties there. What percentage that makes up of the total rental business is probably small, but it’s not nothing.

It has been mentioned above. Points per night needed, being part of a hotel resort with shared amenities and size of the property are probably the most important factors.

 

[Brian Noble]

a 17% jump in housekeeping line item at BLT does seem a bit odd. Is it an outlier compared to other resorts? Perhaps they are increasing staffing levels?

BLT is just coming off of a major renovation in which large sections of the resort were each closed for a chunk of time. It is not hard to imagine that the housekeeping labor costs from 2026 will be significantly higher than they were in 2025, because more rooms are going to be occupied, but there aren't also more owned points.

 

[airjay75]

I know many say this but I just dont get it. Since CCV is relatively low has low % increases and has a great point chart, up until this round of increases BLT increases and dues are low and also has a good point chart.

I keep thinking about this. On one hand, I see the point people make that more points means there are more units, so to speak, to spread out expenses. So, if you had two buildings with the same rooms, but one charged double the points for the same rooms, dues should, in theory be 2x more at the resort that charges lesser points.

But, if that were the sole or primary factor for dues differences across resorts, we’d expect to see the same percentage increase in dues at every resort. And that clearly isn’t the case because there are other variables.

I suppose one could explain part of it (maybe most of it) by the relative ages of the different resorts. The older the resort, the greater the percentage increases in dues over time. But, even there, I don’t see a clear discernible pattern. VGF and BLT are similar ages (although I suppose that is complicated by the fact that VGF had the BPK expansion), BLT has one of the largest compounded annual growth rates (CAGRs) while VGF has one of the lowest.

I suppose another part is explained by the debacle of the understated dues (forget which year) that led to resignations resulting in newer resorts coming out of the gate with higher initial dues. But, one would think that would eventually work itself out over time. Instead, some resorts seem to keep seeing large percentage increases in their dues while others do not. Again, BLT vs. VGF - before this year’s data, BLT’s CAGR according to the site sponsor stood at 5% while VGF’s was 3.3%. And, now BLT is hit with a 9.06% increase while VGF sees only a 4.85% increase. Seems to me there is something going on here that is not explained entirely by either the number of points at the resort or the age of the resort.

So, just a long way of saying that the points per resort explains some of dues differences but not all. Exactly why feels very hard to determine to me. I feel like the best I can make of any resort is to look at the CAGR, the current year’s increase, and maybe discount that just a bit by the age of the resort.

In that respect, this was not a good round for BLT and VGF is standing out even more than it did before. Other resorts seem to be more or less continuing their general trend lines that they had last year relative to other resorts.

 

[mrjack5]

Speaking of Dues, has Disney/Any DVC resort ever declared a "special assessment"?

 

[Stank]

I simply took all the information that every other place/person says as correct vs your unproven word that they are charging you incorrectly. It's possible that they are, and if they are report it to someone and make sure they get a fine or whatever if you wish. Doesn't matter to me. You are just saying "nuh uh" to how the system works with no proof.
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Again, no this is not what I am saying. And there are 0 numbers that I have seen that can actually be used to argue the actual labor % of housekeeping. I do not know the percentages, and neither do you

Please show me where DVC specifically said their housekeeping is 70-80% labor. As I said they are a very non-standard housekeeping system and all of your numbers rely on that. And even then that number looks incorrect for standard hotels anyway.

They are from what I can find usually 40-65% labor and that is with daily cleaning hotels, and should be substantially lower with non-daily cleaning lodgings.

"Labor typically makes up a significant portion of housekeeping costs, often around 40% of total room cleaning expenses in hotels, and over 65% of total housekeeping expenses according to one report. This can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations."

No, okay, here’s the deal because it’s clear you don’t pay utility bills or understand what the components are on them: I said natural gas commodity is passed on with no markup.You quoted a Google search that said the exact same thing I just said—and you argued I was wrong. You even bolded the words “zero markup” and I said the entire time “no markup.”

My entire point was that they SAY the commodity is passed on with no markup, but my entire contention is that the gas price at local hubs is $3/MMBtu, yet the gas charge is $6/MMBtu. That’s a 100% markup. You then talk about “LOL, build a pipeline/storage…” completely unaware that has nothing to do with what I said, and those charges are entirely separate from those numbers. Yikes.

Housekeeping labor is 70-80% of housekeeping costs in the hotel industry. Your Ai chatbot isn’t working very well.

Nor is reading comprehension. It’s not 40-65%; it’s “more than 65% of TOTAL housekeeping costs”

You’ve now gloated multiple times but you legitimately are not thoroughly reading what you’re quoting, and that’s the entire issue here.

And given labor is 70-80% of housekeeping costs, a 4.35% increase in labor to arrive at a 17% overall increase in housekeeping dues means that the non-labor components are skyrocketing by 46.5-67.5%

That’s totally absurd and not occurring. Which is why I’m arguing it’s ridiculous to say “nope! 17%, yep, the accounting checks out!!”

Okay, I want to see where DVC housekeeping isn’t the vast majority of housekeeping costs, and what high-end cleaning chemicals are being substituted to arrive at such a substantial hike.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Speaking of Dues, has Disney/Any DVC resort ever declared a "special assessment"?

Yes some of the beach resorts have. I dont recall specifics. See below

 

[Brian Noble]

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...urricane-assessments-for-three-dvc-properties

Those are pretty modest.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I keep thinking about this. On one hand, I see the point people make that more points means there are more units, so to speak, to spread out expenses. So, if you had two buildings with the same rooms, but one charged double the points for the same rooms, dues should, in theory be 2x more at the resort that charges lesser points.

But, if that were the sole or primary factor for dues differences across resorts, we’d expect to see the same percentage increase in dues at every resort. And that clearly isn’t the case because there are other variables.

I suppose one could explain part of it (maybe most of it) by the relative ages of the different resorts. The older the resort, the greater the percentage increases in dues over time. But, even there, I don’t see a clear discernible pattern. VGF and BLT are similar ages (although I suppose that is complicated by the fact that VGF had the BPK expansion), BLT has one of the largest compounded annual growth rates (CAGRs) while VGF has one of the lowest.

I suppose another part is explained by the debacle of the understated dues (forget which year) that led to resignations resulting in newer resorts coming out of the gate with higher initial dues. But, one would think that would eventually work itself out over time. Instead, some resorts seem to keep seeing large percentage increases in their dues while others do not. Again, BLT vs. VGF - before this year’s data, BLT’s CAGR according to the site sponsor stood at 5% while VGF’s was 3.3%. And, now BLT is hit with a 9.06% increase while VGF sees only a 4.85% increase. Seems to me there is something going on here that is not explained entirely by either the number of points at the resort or the age of the resort.

So, just a long way of saying that the points per resort explains some of dues differences but not all. Exactly why feels very hard to determine to me. I feel like the best I can make of any resort is to look at the CAGR, the current year’s increase, and maybe discount that just a bit by the age of the resort.

In that respect, this was not a good round for BLT and VGF is standing out even more than it did before. Other resorts seem to be more or less continuing their general trend lines that they had last year relative to other resorts.

Yeah even though its been explained I still dont buy in for my own personal owning choices that I should own a high point chart resort because dues are a little lower. The spread isnt wide enough to justify it.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm a fan of owning a resort I often want to visit, personally.

 

[BeachClub2014]

BLT is just coming off of a major renovation in which large sections of the resort were each closed for a chunk of time. It is not hard to imagine that the housekeeping labor costs from 2026 will be significantly higher than they were in 2025, because more rooms are going to be occupied, but there aren't also more owned points.

Makes sense. I just looked at the numbers for Riviera, and they had almost a 15% increase in the Housekeeping budget, so the BLT doesn't seem as much of an aberration in that context.

 

[airjay75]

Yeah even though its been explained I still dont buy in for my own personal owning choices that I should own a high point chart resort because dues are a little lower. The spread isnt wide enough to justify it.

Agreed. Now if resale VGF or PVB would just come down by $15-$20/point, might get me thinking . Haha.

 

[Brian Noble]

I just looked at the numbers for Riviera, and they had almost a 15% increase in the Housekeeping budget

I think you are looking at the resort-wide totals, and those are higher because there are more rooms declared.

The per-point increase was pretty modest. The budget for 2026 had housekeeping at $2.1713 pp. For 2026 it is budgeted at $2.2278, or an increase of 2.6% (which is lower than I computed the first time---I am not sure what I got wrong there; must have mis-typed a number somewhere.)

 

[VGCgroupie]

Agreed. Now if resale VGF or PVB would just come down by $15-$20/point, might get me thinking . Haha.

Yeah Im still grumpy about VGF fire sale I didnt get to partake in. Even though it's too spendy for my taste to stay there often.

 

[Stank]

I’ll say again, BLT housekeeping dues went up 17%, yet housekeeping labor rates went up 4.35%.

Industry standard is housekeeping labor is 70-80% of housekeeping costs. If that’s the case, to arrive at 17% hike in dues for housekeeping, that would mean non-labor housekeeping costs are going up by 46.5-67.5%.

Anyone believe that for a moment and argue dues accounting aren’t substantially padded?

 

[kilik64]

Yea the higher points equal lower dues argument is a little silly, sure your per point is lower but you gotta spend more points to stay there so it's kinda a wash vs slightly higher dues per point but less points per stay.

Now having lower dues and staying at a cheaper resort, that makes sense.