DUES Info! - All resorts dues have been released

[Tatebeck]

No, okay, here’s the deal because it’s clear you don’t pay utility bills or understand what the components are on them: I said natural gas commodity is passed on with no markup.You quoted a Google search that said the exact same thing I just said—and you argued I was wrong. You even bolded the words “zero markup” and I said the entire time “no markup.”

My entire point was that they SAY the commodity is passed on with no markup, but my entire contention is that the gas price at local hubs is $3/MMBtu, yet the gas charge is $6/MMBtu. That’s a 100% markup. You then talk about “LOL, build a pipeline/storage…” completely unaware that has nothing to do with what I said, and those charges are entirely separate from those numbers. Yikes.

Housekeeping labor is 70-80% of housekeeping costs in the hotel industry. Your Ai chatbot isn’t working very well.

Nor is reading comprehension. It’s not 40-65%; it’s “more than 65% of TOTAL housekeeping costs”

You’ve now gloated multiple times but you legitimately are not thoroughly reading what you’re quoting, and that’s the entire issue here.

I'll 100% admit that I thought you were just incorrectly reading your bill at first. That seemed very possible based on context and your other posts. You were saying "but they do mark it up" when everything else says that they do not mark it up. If they truly are, they aren't supposed to be, so contact someone about it rather than chatting online about it... But of course you must be right, so I own over 1,000 DVC points, but have never paid a bill before. I sure hope they don't lock my DVC account when I don't pay these new dues bills.
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I completely read and understand what I quoted and wrote, and please do not start throwing insults or the mods will have to shut the thread down or clear the discussion. You however seem to misunderstand that DVC is NOT a standard hotel no matter how many times I say it, so using your 100% hotel numbers (even if they were correct, which it doesn't look like they were) will simply not work for DVC.

I said I had seen numbers from 40ish to 60ish% for normal hotels
https://hospitality.institute/bha506/how-to-calculate-housekeeping-staffing-in-hotels/ "Staffing decisions ultimately impact profitability, making cost-effectiveness analysis crucial. Labor costs typically represent 35-45% of housekeeping department expenses"

Much lower than 70-80%, or even 65%, but it will vary of course. That is why what I quoted saying
"Labor typically makes up a significant portion of housekeeping costs, often around 40% of total room cleaning expenses in hotels, and over 65% of total housekeeping expenses according to one report. This can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations."

So 35-65% which is already a huge range, and much lower than your nebulously found 70-80% number, and "can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations" simply can't/shouldn't just be ported across to DVC which is a very different system (and which likely has a much lower labor percentage due to the infrequent cleanings compared to hotels)

TLDR: You shouldn't use made up numbers (or even sourced numbers), or use just the highest part of a huge range of numbers, that "can vary widely," specifically from hotel operations, and then use them to say for sure that you know (with no proof) that the DVC housekeeping numbers are illegally padded... Any questions?

but please, no more questions

 

[Stank]

Makes sense. I just looked at the numbers for Riviera, and they had almost a 15% increase in the Housekeeping budget, so the BLT doesn't seem as much of an aberration in that context.

Yeah, it’s not even reasonable. Labor rates went up 4.35%, yet somehow housekeeping charges are triple that.

Simply questioning how these dues are arrived at is “conspiracy theory” level thinking. Because, you know, many don’t understand the concept of weighted average costs.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think you are looking at the resort-wide totals, and those are higher because there are more rooms declared.

The per-point increase was pretty modest. The budget for 2026 had housekeeping at $2.1713 pp. For 2026 it is budgeted at $2.2278, or an increase of 2.6% (which is lower than I computed the first time---I am not sure what I got wrong there; must have mis-typed a number somewhere.)

Yes, I was comparing the Housekeeping line items in the budget, which increased 15% YOY. The dues per point did not increase 15%. I was looking at budget numbers.

TBH, I thought that was what @Stank and @Tatebeck were debating.

My bad.

 

[mkatsy]

That makes sense. Cheap rooms for a birthday party or something. And available with pretty short notice usually. Not to mention all the OKW and SSR that get thrown out there for the Interval International crowd. That would qualify as a type of "rental" in my book

One of the biggest draws, besides the price is the access to parking. Both OKW and SSR are fairly liberal with allowing day guests to park, and Disney Springs is a back up option if needed. There is no way to have a birthday party at Riviera. Your guests can’t park there, and I’m sure a dozen people parading through the lobby with gifts would attract attention. But SSR and OKW because of their sprawling grounds, are pretty private, especially if you don’t reserve preferred rooms.

 

[Tatebeck]

Yeah, it’s not even reasonable. Labor rates went up 4.35%, yet somehow housekeeping charges are triple that.

Simply questioning how these dues are arrived at is “conspiracy theory” level thinking. Because, you know, many don’t understand the concept of weighted average costs.

*6.2% (ish), assuming that a further change hasn't been made since the 2023 agreement, 0 overtime, etc.

 

[airjay75]

I think @Brian Noble had a pretty plausible argument on the high jump in housekeeping for BLT - if large chunks of the resort were always out of commission in 2025, you presumably needed less housekeepers than you do now that all rooms are available. So, this year you need an average of 5 housekeepers per every few floors, but maybe next year, they'll need 6 housekeepers per the same amount of floors. Let's say wages for 2025 were $20/hour, and they've gone up to $20.90/hour (a 4.5% increase).

5x$20 = $100/hour for all 3 housekeepers
6x$20.90 = $125.40/hour for all 4 housekeepers.

That would actually be about a 25% increase in labor. If you mess around with the ratio, you can probably get it down to 17%.

Seem as good a hypothesis as any to me

 

[Tatebeck]

I think @Brian Noble had a pretty plausible argument on the high jump in housekeeping for BLT - if large chunks of the resort were always out of commission in 2025, you presumably needed less housekeepers than you do now that all rooms are available. So, this year you need an average of 5 housekeepers per every few floors, but maybe next year, they'll need 6 housekeepers per the same amount of floors. Let's say wages for 2025 were $20/hour, and they've gone up to $20.90/hour.

5x$20 = $100/hour for all 3 housekeepers
6x$20.90 = $125.40/hour for all 4 housekeepers.

That would actually be about a 25% increase in labor. If you mess around with the ratio, you can probably get it down to 17%.

Seem as good a hypothesis as any to me

You mean they may not be padding the numbers illegally and adding extra just because?

 

[WinterSolider]

Yes but the question was, what’s the secret to the low VGF dues.

There's no secret, everyone knows the answer.

Pretend Room 1 and Room 2 cost $200 to maintain. They're identical in every single way. They're maintained exactly the same. Room 1 costs 20 points and Room 2 costs 16 points.

Room 1 maintenance cost PER POINT is $10. Room 2 maintenance cost PER POINT is $12.50.

This isn't complicated. More points = lower dues per point, period.

Old Key West isn't uniquely expensive to maintain or operate in dollar terms but it IS uniquely cheap in points terms. You're trying to find your answer in the numerator, but it's a denominator problem.

 

[eticketplease]

Well….yes…but, housekeeping is 70-80% labor as it’s a labor-intensive business. That’s for hotels. That’s daily housekeeping. DVC cleans rooms once a week. So if you have a 100 unit hotel, you’re cleaning 100 rooms daily. A 100 unit DVC would be 30-40 rooms daily.

Have you stayed in a hotel recently? Since Covid most chains are not cleaning rooms daily and of course you still have people opt out of cleaning.

 

[WinterSolider]

Yea the higher points equal lower dues argument is a little silly, sure your per point is lower but you gotta spend more points to stay there so it's kinda a wash vs slightly higher dues per point but less points per stay.

This only applies if you always stay at your home resort.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Yea the higher points equal lower dues argument is a little silly, sure your per point is lower but you gotta spend more points to stay there so it's kinda a wash vs slightly higher dues per point but less points per stay.

Now having lower dues and staying at a cheaper resort, that makes sense.

Cue CCV!

 

[eticketplease]

It’s basic math. If DVC cleaned zero rooms a day, they’d spend nothing on chemicals.

That VGF lobby is filthy but we sure saved the DVC owners some $$ on dues since we didn’t use any cleaning supplies as those are only used for rooms.

 

[Stank]

I'll 100% admit that I thought you were just incorrectly reading your bill at first. That seemed very possible based on context and your other posts. You were saying "but they do mark it up" when everything else says that they do not mark it up. If they truly are, they aren't supposed to be, so contact someone about it rather than chatting online about it... But of course you must be right, so I own over 1,000 DVC points, but have never paid a bill before. I sure hope they don't lock my DVC account when I don't pay these new dues bills.
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I completely read and understand what I quoted and wrote, and please do not start throwing insults or the mods will have to shut the thread down or clear the discussion. You however seem to misunderstand that DVC is NOT a standard hotel no matter how many times I say it, so using your 100% hotel numbers (even if they were correct, which it doesn't look like they were) will simply not work for DVC.

I said I had seen numbers from 40ish to 60ish% for normal hotels
https://hospitality.institute/bha506/how-to-calculate-housekeeping-staffing-in-hotels/ "Staffing decisions ultimately impact profitability, making cost-effectiveness analysis crucial. Labor costs typically represent 35-45% of housekeeping department expenses"

Much lower than 70-80%, or even 65%, but it will vary of course. That is why what I quoted saying
"Labor typically makes up a significant portion of housekeeping costs, often around 40% of total room cleaning expenses in hotels, and over 65% of total housekeeping expenses according to one report. This can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations."

So 35-65% which is already a huge range, and much lower than your nebulously found 70-80% number, and "can vary widely, but it is consistently the largest expense category for hotel operations" simply can't/shouldn't be simply ported across to DVC which is a very different system (and which likely has a much lower labor percentage due to the infrequent cleanings compared to hotels)

Zero insults here despite the gloating obnoxious laugh emojis that you’re repeatedly including in your replies over and over.

We’ll agree you don’t understand the components of the natural gas bill, that you had to Google search it because you didn’t know yourself, and that you didn’t understand what was being argued vs. what you copy and pasted, which validated what was already argued.

I don’t want to toss much more math at you…but…a 4.35% wage hike in 2026 for housekeeping means that Disney’s non-labor housekeeping costs went up over 46.5-67.5%.

Just curious if you can point out what the big non-labor cost components of housekeeping are and what they went up by. Let me know if you find any of them going up by more than single digits.

 

[Brian Noble]

TBH, I thought that was what @Stank and @Tatebeck were debating.

...and they might have been, but at BLT there has not been a new declaration, so the two should have increased at the same rate. I have no idea if they did though.

 

[eticketplease]

I couldn't resist

 

[melissa70]

Agreed. Now if resale VGF or PVB would just come down by $15-$20/point, might get me thinking . Haha.

It will get me thinking too

 

[davidhr]

I’m glad I budget a 10% increase so when I see this I just think “Oh, I’ll have some extra money left after paying dues”

 

[Tatebeck]

Zero insults here despite the gloating obnoxious laugh emojis that you’re repeatedly including in your replies over and over.

We’ll agree you don’t understand the components of the natural gas bill, that you had to Google search it because you didn’t know yourself, and that you didn’t understand what was being argued vs. what you copy and pasted, which validated what was already argued.

I don’t want to toss much more math at you…but…a 4.35% wage hike in 2026 for housekeeping means that Disney’s non-labor housekeeping costs went up over 46.5-67.5%.

Just curious if you can point out what the big non-labor cost components of housekeeping are and what they went up by. Let me know if you find any of them going up by more than single digits.

I post a lot of laughing emojis anyway, no one is gonna stop me! Though you definitely were trying to insult my reading comprehension.
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That is not what happened. You mis-stated what you were meaning in the first post I quoted about it. Let's look at it!

Yeah, and all utilities have their books scrutinized by state regulators and have to be approved (unlike DVC dues) by those regulators.

Yet I’m paying 2-3x the prevailing natural gas price, as are natural gas customers across the country, despite being told the commodity has zero markup.

Again, there’s reality vs. what should happen.

You literally said that you were "paying" (gas price + fees) more than the prevailing gas price (gas price only)
Which makes sense because you have to pay for all of the taxes and fees for delivery, etc. Which I thought you did not know about, which I why I posted about having to pay for that part, because I thought you had misunderstood it. Again if you are paying for those fees AND paying a markup on the actual gas cost, that is not right, please contact someone (besides me please! ) about it.

Since you want to talk math, you keep mentioning the 4.35% incorrectly. If we are going based on the 2023 agreement, it would be around 6.2% (again)

There are many other possible explanations I and others have given that could change the housekeeping cost numbers. Inflation of the consumables and cleaning supplies, replacement of broken durable supplies, increased number of short stays resulting in cleaning a room more often, increased number of hired housekeeping cast members, something changing with the refurb that require more cleaning time, overtime due to shortage, another increase in pay that wasn't reported since the 2023 agreement, etc. The truth is we do not know unless/until DVC releases more info.

As @Brian Noble mentioned the easiest way to explain a huge swing would be increased number of CMs hired. If their pay on goes up 6.2% per housekeeper, but you have to hire a bunch more housekeepers to keep up with the rooms, then your total labor and housekeeping costs will go up way more than 6.2%

 

[Chili327]

Yeah I'm still grumpy about VGF fire sale I didnt get to partake in. Even though it's too spendy for my taste to stay there often.

It will get me thinking too

Yep, just used as SAP can make a lot of sense if the purchase price is right!!

 

[eticketplease]

I’m glad I budget a 10% increase so when I see this I just think “Oh, I’ll have some extra money left after paying dues”

Same as they are usually around 5% but I have also swings so I just do 10% and so far it hasn’t come to that number yet for me either