Dues-do you still feel DVC is a good deal?

[MOMO2DK]

Hi,
Reading the responses based on math- ownership and annual dues still add up to a good deal. This is especially true when you factor in travel that incldes using the larger rooms (1BR or larger).

When DH and I first bought, a 1BR at OKW was perfect for our family, but within 2 years, we can no longer stay in anything smaller than a 2BR. Our family has grown- our immediate family and our extended family with whom we "share the magic" (aka relatives that we share our vacation with).

If this could be you - a studio will be too small. And if a studio becomes too small for you, then the math works out even better (relative to dues etc...) when you start staying in the larger rooms.

Good Luck
Martha

 

[disneycrazed139]

After reading all these, I think a good comparison (as a shopper) for DVC would be akin to buying something on lay-away...put money down and keep putting money down for something that maybe you wouldn't pay for all at once out of pocket for. That's my analogy anyway!


I'm glad everyone is so happy with it.

 

[KANSAS]

i am very happy DVC Member. I love my home resorts BEACH Club villa and Boardwalk villa

I have never quesionted the cost of my DVC membership
at $74 per point

I greatly question, the annual dues. The annual dues, for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit is $63,000.

The total number of points to stay in this unit, around 16,000 x 3.96 per point, for all 365 days

I think. I am greatly overcharged for my annual dues.

I ahve come to the conclusion, that I cannot quite understand, what is included in annual dues for a DVC RESORT
All other members of the DVC board, including many, which much more experience, than me, about DVC, do not feel overcharged for their annual dues. So I have tried to accept. I am wrong on this issue.

I guess. I am so cynancial, because it seems like every company, has been accused of padding the numbers, to steal, from the shareholders, the last few years
I need to quit thinking this way.

 

[Namdnas]

Kansas,

$63k a year for dues on a room is extremely high, but I have a suspicion as to why.

Disney isn't stealing from the shareholders in this case, they are represented by those holding common stock. They could however, be financing other portions of their business on the bedrock that is DVC. I suspect that since they can't profit from the annual dues, that they charge the DVC resorts for shared costs at a, shall we say, non-discounted rate. So, even if the rates should be low, it would be posible for Disney to legally bump them up in these two ways.

One way they could profit would be for Disney corporate to lease the land to DVC at an exhorbitant rate. They get a huge lease fee, and DVC doesn't care, because the dues pay for it. Heck, they already own the land, so the lease to DVC would simply be a chargeback play.

Next, they could overcharge the DVC resorts for their portion of the transportation system, and the remaining Disney resorts look even more profitable. Also, does it matter if they are high? they can be passes on as dues right...

The benefit to them? They are guaranteed these dollars each and every year, regarless of occupancy at the normal resorts. Since dues go into keeping them running, DVC costs to Disney are zero, and factoring in the purchase costs, they are extremely profitable. Let's face it, even if your weren't Disney, construction in Florida is relatively cheap.

So that's my guess. Either way, as long as Disney get really greedy with this, I still think it's a good bargain. They couldn't really jack the prices up quickly even if they did play with these two numbers, since it would raise suspicion, and Disney is as adverse to lawsuits as any company.

Now, I've also been thinking about DVC in general for Disney, and it has to about the best thing since sliced bread.

Consider, even if the average cost/point since DVC has opened is $60/point. (forgive me, my numbers are going to be a bunch of guesses here) If there are at least 60,000 member, who purchased at least 150 points, the revenue would be approx 1/2 Billion dollars. I am absolutely sure that the building costs were a very small portion of that. The remainder is pure profit which Disney can reinvest at their own rate of return. Since dues pay for everything else, if they never heard from DVC again, they made a bunch of money. But, it only gets better. Assume 3/4 of all families go to the parks. That's approx. $1000 or better each year in park addmissions, and probably $750 for food and shopping. Since people have to go each year, or rent, they are locked in. That's $1750 each year that they can count on with no reservation hassles (DVC does that), guaranteed incremental revenue. The Disney manager who thought of this was a genious. And you know what, despite all Disney's profits, it's still better for you and me who love Disney and would have gone back every year anyway. What a magnificent feat!!!

 

[KANSAS]

NAMDAS

INTEREsTING THOUGHTS!!!!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by KANSAS
iI greatly question, the annual dues. The annual dues, for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit is $63,000.

The total number of points to stay in this unit, around 16,000 x 3.96 per point, for all 365 days

I think. I am greatly overcharged for my annual dues.

I ahve come to the conclusion, that I cannot quite understand, what is included in annual dues for a DVC RESORT
All other members of the DVC board, including many, which much more experience, than me, about DVC, do not feel overcharged for their annual dues. So I have tried to accept. I am wrong on this issue.

I guess. I am so cynancial, because it seems like every company, has been accused of padding the numbers, to steal, from the shareholders, the last few years
I need to quit thinking this way.

While none of us have access to all the books and numbers, I am not concerned about illegal activity with the setup DVC has. The dues are high, but are they out of line compared to other timeshares and what we get? I say they are not that bad in the situation ASSUMING ONE FEELS STAYING ON SITE IS WORTH A PREMIUM.

The comparable Marriott's in HH and Orlando are around $700 for a 2 BR for a week. 300 DVC points would be in neighborhood of $1200 for a year. While $500 is a big difference, let's look at what we have that you wouldn't get with the Marriott setup. There is the flexibility of different times of year, different unit sizes and choosing the exact number of days you want or need. All except HH have a full service restaurant and all on site also get transportation. There are also lifeguards at most of the pools which we pay for in part.

While around 300 points may compare to a 2 BR for a week, around 200 points ($800/yr) will do just as well for most families and give them exactly what they want for a week. Many times one doesn’t need a 2 BR or has to leave a day early anyway. There’s also the internal trading option with DVC to other DVC resorts for no cost. No charge banking, borrowing, canceling and changing reservations. All of these things have value to many members but not to all.

I know this is an oversimplification and there are other advantages to the Marriott system for many of us but I feel it makes the point for the fees not being as bad as it seems on the surface. DVC is not a good choice comparatively for one who knows what time of the year they will come, always need the same size unit, can take Disney or leave it and will stay for a full week every time. DVC is the choice for one that wants to stay on property (and pay for it) and feels the flexibility has value for them.

 

[KANSAS]

Dean

Thank you again for your help, you have given me in the past
I consider you, the most knowledgable man, I have ever met, when it comes to Timeshares.
I agree with everything, that you said, in your recent post

I would just to make the argument, that when you compare DVC with Marriott, this is a good one.

But, I feel Marriott, is probablyalso overcharging me , for my annual dues, on my Marriott Beach Place Towers Timeshare, in Ft lauderdale,Fl as well as DVC is overcharging me for my DVC Beach Club villa Time share

But, I ahve no interest in selling my 2 DVC TIMESHARES, so I must find than the annual dues, tolerable, for the accomodations I get, with my timeshares, instead of paying cash for same timeshare rentals

 

[crisi]

KANSAS,

My own home expenses are pretty high. I pay a housekeeper about $5,000 a year to come clean my house. Like mousekeeping, I only get her services once a week. I pay a college kid around $1000 a summer to mow my lawn - just mow, I don't have the extensive gardens that Disney has around their properties and my property is less than a 1/4 acre. I do pay a landscaper another couple hundred a year to do spring prep work, including getting the sprinkler system running, and fall prep work, including blowing out the sprinker. And put several hundred dollars into annual and perennial flowers every year. We just went to home depot and spent $100 on lightbulbs - and know that will only last us six months! My only private road is my driveway - and that costs a couple hundred dollars to coat ever year or so.

I don't have security, don't have a bellhop, don't need desk staff, don't have a pool that needs to be maintained nor provide a lifeguard, and my homeowners insurance doesn't need to cover commercial use. The carpets in my hallways need to replaced after the feet of four people wear them out - not thousands. Disney has to provide commerical telecommunications (phones in every room with their own number - not cheap, that's part of what I do at work). They have to provide transportation to the parks.

To me, the dues are reasonable given the size and quality of the facility that is managed. My grandmother pays a townhome association fee of $300 a month. For that, they shovel her driveway (which fits a single parked car) and mow her postage stamp sized lawn. They also escrow money for repairs. That makes Disney dues look like a bargain.

 

[Namdnas]

I agree, things are fine with me too. I think the whole DVC experience is still cheaper and more enjoyable than a normal resort stay.

For me, this is more of a luxury, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I want my kids to cherish these memories. My 2 1/2 year old is always talking about our 'vacation home' already.

As for the analysis, I do this mainly out of business curiosity. DVC makes sense for Disney as well, so I think we can also count on seeing more resorts, and an overall higher percentage of Disney visitorship over the years as well. Who wouldn't want guaranteed fully booked properties for at least 40 years!

 

[mamarobin24]

i would agree with Crisi.

My first thoughts about overcharging dues and/or is it worth it comes from my experiences renting other similar accomodations in places like Cape Cod, Newport and Sanibel Island. Our family is extensive and likes to travel together.

A condo/beach cottage on the Cape that was a mile from the beach cost us $2000 a week and slept 8. no housekeeping, no garden (no lawn in the sand) no washer/dryer. That was 7 years ago.

A beach cottage near Newport, RI, about 1/4 mile from the ocean cost us $1200 a week and slept 5 adults and one small 913-months) boy not very comfortably. Again, no garden, no housekeeping, no laundry. That was 14 years ago.

Sanibel for 8 in 2002 cost us $2500. That one had housekeeping and a garden.

So, i think it's a deal. Bseides, it's Disney on property - which, yes is TOTALLY worth it. I think the dues pay for the staff and for the upkeep. After spending about $6000 over 4 years to go to WDW about 18 nights (that's just rooms), we shoulda signed up for DVC earlier.

 

[ScottOKW2K]

I just did a quick visual survey on the TUG (Timeshare Users Group) site, looking at other resorts that - by vote of owners and renters - are in the same class as the Disney DVC resorts. For example, I looked at some of the classifieds for-sale listings, looking at some of the "Royal" resorts in Cancun, or some of the Marriott properties in Hilton Head.

The dues for these properties (1 week, 2 bedroom) were not very different for what I am paying for my 250 points at OKW. Since I am comparing ones that are all highly rated, I feel that this is a valid comaprison. Let's face it - no really well rated property is going to be cheap to buy into, nor are they going to be inexpensive to maintain. DVC, Marriott and others like them have a well-deserved reputation for their excellence of their resorts, and the quality of the service and amenities at those resorts. Needless to say, the cost of this is going to be higher that that of an average timeshare.

Personally, whenever I think about the $'s we have spent on DVC - whether it be the contract purchase or the dues paid - it always comes back to whether were are getting good VALUE for our money. For me , it's a no-brainer. Our contract is paid off, we have already recouped its cost in the stays we have done to date (2 br. VWL / GV OKW / 1 br BWV / 1 br. OKW), and from now until 2042 we can stay in DVC accommodations for about the cost of an value-season room at the All-Stars each month.

So, for us, was DVC a good deal ? Naaahhhhh.........

It was a GREAT DEAL !!

 

[DebbieB]

I've owned DVC for almost 4 years, have gone in 7 trips totaling 41 nights in 1 bedrooms. I paid $14,750 for 250 points at BWV after magical beginnings. So $14,750/41 = $360 per night. The rack rate for a 1 bedroom is around $400, so I figure I've made that up (not considering discounts available from CRO). My contract is paid off, so I'm basically getting 11 or 12 nights in a 1 bedroom for about $1,000 a year in dues (5 or 6 nights at OKW in May, 5 nights in BWV standard in early Dec). I didn't go into financial analysis when I bought, I bought it because I fell in love with the luxury of the 1 bedroom and it only made sense to buy. Even with possible discounts, I couldn't see shelling out $300-$400 a night for a 1 bedroom on a consistent basis. My dues are about $83 a month, which I don't even miss!

 

[princess&tig]

DVC is the best if you are or are planning on going to WDW every year. We just joined but if I look back on the last 10 years we have gone every year (many times twice per year) with hotels ranging from $800 to $1800. I could easily have paid for the DVC 2 times over again. The quality was not even close to DVC. Spending hours at the laundry room at the Contempory was a drag on the vaction.

In case no one has figured it out Disney make all their money on food. The have competition for hotels and even parks. So those prices are competitive. However, once they have you in the parks or hotels on hot summer days when you are so tired and hungry, you wander into a nice airconditioned restaurant with they best food in the world. You wind up paying $100 per meal for a family of 4 minimal. I used to figure $200 a day in food. The DVC can significantly reduce this. Eating a light breakfast in the room (you can make, pancakes, waffles, eggs...) and then a lunch and the parks ($75) and back to the room for dinner. I still hit the restaurants but usually for desserts. Now everyone loves the restaurants and I would never leave them out of my trips but I can substitute the fastfood meals for room meals.

Hotels, Laundry, Food, Quality of Vacactions, Locations, Being a Part of the Magic, The club was worth it just in dreams....

 

[pstepka]

We just spent 5 nights in a BCV studio by renting points and now want to buy ourselves. The studio was fine, but I really would have preferred at least a one bedroom. So...if we want deluxe accommodations at a great resort, and something larger than a studio AND on-site, it seems the best value would be to buy ourselves. If, however, we would want to stay in a studio each time, it would probably be best to just continue renting points. I can see that the cost (because of the annual dues) would not make it a good value.

Before we stayed at BCV, I didn't think it mattered (to us, anyway) if we were onsite or offsite. I know that you can get awsome accommodations offsite for much cheaper. BUT, after walking to Epcot, walking to the Boardwalk, taking the boat to MGM, we will NEVER stay anywhere but BCV!!!

So....I think it's a good value IF you want the onsite, deluxe, larger accommodations. If you're happy in a moderate, or happy in a condo off-site, then it's not for you.



Pam

 

[Rebd40]

Has anyone done an analysis comparing the cost of renting DVC points vs. buying DVC? So far I've seen comparisons to rack rates but how would the math come out if you assumed you rented points?

I go to WDW a couple of times a year and have been saving up to buy DVC. In order to decide which place I want for my "home base", I've been renting from DVCers to stay in studios or 1 bedrooms. But renting from DVCers has been so easy and so much cheaper than renting from Disney now I'm wondering if I should keep doing that instead of buying. But I'm willing to be talked out of that!

 

[pstepka]

I think if you're renting a studio each time, then it's probably not worth it to buy. But if you're getting at least a one bedroom, then maybe it is. Or if you are going to tire of Disney in the next 4 or 5 years - then it's not a better value. But, my thinking is that if you're going to stay in at least a 1 BR, and plan on going to Disney for the next 10 years at least, then it's a good value in the long run.

For instance, it would be 214 points to book a 1 BR at BCV in October. That would be 2140.00 if points are renting for 10.00 each. If you bought 214 points, and financed them (for ease in comparison), your monthly payments would probably be around 265.00. That comes out to about 3200.00. So, for the first few years it would be cheaper to rent. But, eventually your loan is paid off, so then you're only paying 1,000 a year. And, the cost to rent points will go up so it will cost more than 10.00/point to rent. I know maintenance fees go up, too, but I bet not proportionately to how much the going rate to rent points goes up.

I wrestled with the exact same thoughts...in fact I even told my husband we could just rent points each year. BUT...after doing more research, I'm convinced that DVC is a good choice for us. Plus, we want to vaca at HH every other year so we can still use our points!

You just have to be able to look ahead. I'm sure many people waited a few years befoer buying and then after they bought and they got to the point where it would be saving them money had they bought sooner, they could kick themselves for having not done it sooner. I don't want to be in that position, which is why I'm hoping to buy within the next month or so.

It seems it's defintely not a good choice if you don't HAVE to stay onsite. You can get great accommodations much cheaper offsite. But, after our stay at BCV, we know that we'll never want to stay anywhere else!

Pam

 

[DaveH]

The studio is what we plan on using most of the time. We have only 150 points and are emty nesters. We usually go off season so we can around 10 days. We fall under the margainal(sp?) good deal. We usually stay at All Stars. So just plain $ only no. Now here is the catch and why we like it. The cost today is slightly more than All Stars for us. Given historic rise in cost in general we will be paying less than All Stars in a few years. Yes I am including the interest on our mortgage and the increase in dues, even at maximum rate. To us the upgrade in the rooms is also somethig we would probally not have done either. If ever have grandkids then we will start vacationing differently, but for now we are happy.

 

[disneycrazed139]

The cost today is slightly more than All Stars for us.

Wondering, Dave, how do you figure that the cost is only slightly more than All Stars? I figure it comes out to be about twice as much.

Please don't get me wrong--I just bought in, so I came up with every reason that I could find to do so. Maybe you have another reason I still haven't discovered. Could you please explain how DVC is "slightly" more.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by crisi
KANSAS,

My own home expenses are pretty high. I pay a housekeeper about $5,000 a year to come clean my house. Like mousekeeping, I only get her services once a week. I pay a college kid around $1000 a summer to mow my lawn - just mow, I don't have the extensive gardens that Disney has around their properties and my property is less than a 1/4 acre. I do pay a landscaper another couple hundred a year to do spring prep work, including getting the sprinkler system running, and fall prep work, including blowing out the sprinker. And put several hundred dollars into annual and perennial flowers every year. We just went to home depot and spent $100 on lightbulbs - and know that will only last us six months! My only private road is my driveway - and that costs a couple hundred dollars to coat ever year or so.

I don't have security, don't have a bellhop, don't need desk staff, don't have a pool that needs to be maintained nor provide a lifeguard, and my homeowners insurance doesn't need to cover commercial use. The carpets in my hallways need to replaced after the feet of four people wear them out - not thousands. Disney has to provide commerical telecommunications (phones in every room with their own number - not cheap, that's part of what I do at work). They have to provide transportation to the parks.

To me, the dues are reasonable given the size and quality of the facility that is managed. My grandmother pays a townhome association fee of $300 a month. For that, they shovel her driveway (which fits a single parked car) and mow her postage stamp sized lawn. They also escrow money for repairs. That makes Disney dues look like a bargain.

Excellent points here. Perhaps I missed it in this or other posts, but our dues also pay for electricity and air conditioning, heat, plumbing, septic, furniture, linens, soap, Tide, dish detergent. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea.

 

[drtpaper]

Yadda Yadda Yadda - comparisons to onsite resorts
Blah Blah Blah - comparisons to offsite resorts

Taking your tired toddler back to the room for a nap without wasting hours - priceless

Eating a nutritious lunch in an air conditioned room only 15 minutes from the park - priceless or $30 cheaper than in the park

Relaxing by the pool for an hour while your other two boys play in the pool and go down the waterslide to cool off from the heat -priceless

Being back in the park with 3 happy, rested, cooled off kids - priceless

Watching Illuminations every night and being back in the room 20 minutes after it is over - priceless

Having a full kitchen to make your late night snack and store your 12 pack of beer - priceless

I can never get the numbers to work out when I try to calculate them because the parts that make a DVC resort special. Put down the calculator - it is more expensive than Motel 6. Get out your check book - its going to cost you a lot up front. Sit back and truly enjoy a vacation and don't settle for second best. 39 years from now, you probably be dead, but the memories of DVC will be alive in several generations of your off spring and you will be remembered fondly. If you have the luxury of outlasting your DVC membership, I guarantee, you will want to buy another.