Dues-do you still feel DVC is a good deal?

[disneycrazed139]

I have been seriously considering DVC ownership, but then when I look at the monthly or annual dues, I feel that after I have already paid thousands of dollars, I don't want to feel that I have to spend 600 or 700 dollars a year on top of that for dues. It sort of seems to eliminate the whole benefit of pre-paying the vacation, when you still are committed to this amount annually.

Any opinions on this?

Pros and cons?

Agree or disagree?

I am looking for any and all reasons to buy in to the program, but I can't seem to justify it with the high cost of annual dues. Convince me otherwise!!

 

[PamOKW]

It's like buying a car. You still have to pay for the gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. That's what the dues are. DVC has done a very good job of containing costs and the only dramatic rise was last year when insurance costs slammed DVC. Hopefully, that won't be repeated too soon although overall it wasn't really that dramatic a rise in costs.

 

[Namdnas]

Ah, I see the conflict, and I had it as well.

Let me just say that if you're thinking, 'I can get a room at the Swan or off Disney' for a $100/night, you're right. BUT, once you've stayed on-site at a DVC property, especially in something as impressive as a 2BR or GV, you won't make those comparisons again... it'll make you feel like it's a good deal.

I rented points to try it once before I bought in. The 2BRs at OKW are truly excellent. Full kitchen, actual space to move around, etc...

 

[disneycrazed139]

What if I only have minimal points (like 150) and would probably budget it with a studio or every other year 1 bedroom? Is it still much more fabulous than say staying at a moderate with housekeeping? Or the swan or dolphin?

I thought that the dues were less or that they were incorporated into the purchase price, at first. I did the math and figured the dues about triple the price of the original purchase and I was disappointed because I wanted to buy SO badly!

Please convince me further!!

 

[crisi]

For $600 a year I can get ten nights in a BWV studio - choice season (153 points). Not what I do, but for comparision purposes.

Or I can stay at the CBR for about four nights after I pay taxes. Or the All Stars for six, maybe seven nights. I can stay two nights at BWI.

Now, if I'm willing to stay offsite, I can get a lovely room for around $600, but I'm not staying offsite - haven't since 1984 and never will again.

With the FTP, you can truly get some excellent deals this year - but no guarentees on next year. I'm pretty sure that thirty years from now, my dues (which will be more than $600, but still reasonable) will still get me about ten nights in that studio.

But if $600 a year is a lot to you DVC may not be for you. It is an annual financial obligation and is a lot of money to a lot of people.

 

[Namdnas]

OK, let me take another shot at it.

I did buy (1st buy, and yes, I'm already sweating buying more points) the minimum at BCV. That's enough to get us a 2BR at Beach Club in the low season (we'll often go in January) from Sunday to Thursday. The 'rack' rate for this room in the same season is $535 per night, and with taxes it's $596 (11.5% total for hotels in Florida). So, at rack rate it would book for $2883 for those 5 days. You can pretty much assume that the market price for the room 'reflects' how nice it is. These rooms (in this case a 2BR home) are comparable to premium hotel rooms. While you don't get housekeeping every day, the amenities more than make up for it, and again, trust me, they're damn nice (I was pleasantly shocked).

Now, lets assume that you can pretty much always get a 20% discount if you look hard enough. That would bring a more real cost for the 5 days to about $2386.

Assuming you buy this with Magical Beginings (you forfeit your first years points, but still pay pro-rated dues) for $74/point for 150 points. This would cost
$11100, with no closing costs (direct from Disney, not resale). If you get 39 years at 150 / year, you have total of 5850 points. $11100/5850 = $1.90/point purchase cost (yes everyone, I am neglecting time value of money, but I'm trying to make this easy).

Now, maintenance fees are approx. $4.00/(point-year) for a yearly maintenance fee of approx. $4x150 = $600 /year. Add to that $1.90x150=$285, and the 5 days cost you roughly $885.

Compare $885 to $2386 and you've got a $1500/year savings.

Now, you could invest the money, and figure out the anticipated return, say 10% historically, but you'll still be hard pressed to beat the savings. Keep in mind that dues are based on actual running costs for the resorts, which Disney can't raise for profit. I think they'll continue increase far slower than inflation and room rates in general, especially at Disney.

Enjoy!!!

 

[bcvillastwo]

Your observations about the dues seem logical but I think it depends on how you go about making your comparisons. There are any number of assumptions that people make when considering buying into DVC and cost seems to be one of the major hang ups both the initial cost and the dreaded annual dues payments. I agree, there is considerable cost involved and for some it really is out of the question. I would suggest the following.

1st estimate how much you would ordinarily spend on accomodations and don't forget to factor in the taxes you will pay.

2nd calculate your the cost of DVC (purchase price, dues, and interest if you have to finance). The goal her is to get to arrive at how much is cost per point. If you don't want to figure it out you can use an estimate that I've seen and it works out to around $6.00 per point ($2.00 DVC cost and $4.00 dues). Remember it could be a bit higher if you are financing.

3rd. Calculate how much it will cost for one night at DVC. (Lets say it's $6.00 per point and it cost 12 points for one night. That works out to $144 per night.

4th. If it cost you less than $144 per night to rent then it wouldn't make sense financially to go with DVC.

I've found it best to make this evaluation by comparing similar rooms (studio to moderate room) by breaking down the cost on a per point basis. That way you can compare costs night by night.

I'm sure others will add their own advice and perspectives but always try to compare apples with apples if you can. But remember one thing a studio is probably going to be the closest thing you can find to a regular room at WDW. It's not an exact comparison because the studio's are for the most part nicer than just regular rooms.

 

[Richyams]

I don't think staying in studios gives such a good break even time.

I get the OKW GV for 10-12 nights every year for the cost of dues, about $1,500.

$150 a night for the OKW GV, seems ok to me.

 

[Namdnas]

BCVillastwo makes some good points, and if I run the rough numbers with a std. room at the Beach Club Resort (cheapest room at that resort) in the low season, the rack rate is $289/night. If I again use 11.5% tax, 20% discount, I get $258/night, for a total of $1289 for the five days in the std. room. A comparable studio at the Beach club Villas would be 12 points/night. at $6/point that comes to $72/night or $360 for the 5 days, still a good deal.

Remember, the larger rooms are a big treat, as Richyams has mentioned, and comparing them to a hotel room is tough.

Take care.

 

[jaysue]

Since we are on the studios "thing", you will need (if not already so) aware that at all DVC at WDW except for OKW, the studios have a Queen bed and roll-away Double - this may be a + or - for you depending on your situation

Studios are slightly larger than moderate rooms - 360 and 375 square feet versus 314 square feet and also than the Deluxe WL and AKL (340 square feet) - they are not as large as the Monorail or Epcot Deluxe resort rooms

I agree with Richm, that studios can be a tough comparison - the real magic comes from the 1 and 2BR (and of course GV) that are part of DVC - in other words having space at WDW for a family and the opportunity of having a full kitchen for easy breakfast, supper break and then of course, not having to pack as many clothes due to the washer/dryer in the larger units

Thanks
jaysue

 

[timC]

Lot of good suggestions above...

Let me add, that when we looked at costs and breakevens, etc, we accounted for the day when a studio would no longer be big enough for our family. Now, when we travel to visit family, or other non-DVC trip, I've gotta rent 2 rooms with is lock-off. Ugh.

As Rich points out, the deal gets better as room size goes up. Yes, Rich. That rule seems to apply when comparing OKW to BWV rooms too

Also. We pay dues monthy. IMO it's a little less painful.

 

[Disney Doll]

In general, if money is that tight, then the DVC may not be a good option for you at this point.

Basically the way we figured it was once we paid off the inital investment for the purchase of the points, all our vacations cost us was the annual dues fee.

We have 2 contracts, and the total for dues is about $120/month, which comes out to $1440 year, and we usually take two and sometimes three 5-7 day trips every year. IMHO, there is no room on WDW property where I can stay for 14-21 days for $1440 or less that even comes close to equalling what I get at a DVC resort, regardless of which one you pick.

 

[mikesmom]

We were also pleasantly surprised (shocked, really) at how much we saved on food. Now, we've always traveled with teenagers, so take that into account. I do NOT cook every night. We cook breakfast and stock the kitchen with sodas, lots of fruit, bottled water, chips, frozen pizza, etc. I also make a grocery stop to buy deli meats, cheeses, lettuce, tomatoes and buns. I make up substantial deli-style sandwiches each night and wrap tightly. The boys would grab those and eat at will. They take the water, etc into the parks with them. Also, when we did have sit down meals at Disney we always brought home leftovers that usually became another meal.

The breakast, snack and lunch food we would be buying even at home. The amounts saved was probably hundreds. Can I quantify that? Not easily, but I do take it into account when I compare the cost of staying DVC style with the cost regular accomodations.

Everyone has their own answer, though. You have to do what works for you.

 

[DaveH]

We bought into DVC 2 years ago. We are empty nesters and usually stay at the All Stars. We bought 150 points. We stay in studios. Ok when I broke down the cost of DVC with the All Stars(where we stay not quality even compare) DVC is slightly more. Our current dues is around$50 per month. I think slightly less. OK the differences. Small fridge bigger than available at AS. Toaster, microwave in room not at AS. Free washer and dryer in common area, AS is around $2 per load washer and dryer. Has 1 bed and a sofa bed, which means for us most of the time a sofa. For a little more money to us we get better rooms than we would if with cash. Have to save less for trip because do not have to pay for a room after normal bills. normal bills include mortgage and dues. We have less than 8 years left on mortgage then just dues. When mortgage done just plan on some rise in dues and plan on max and anything less is extra money. I wish we bought a few more points but will not buy more anytime soon. I hope this helps.

 

[dmorrill]

At first I thought about the dues and the costs the same as you are. we really wanted to stay at the Boardwalk Villas but even for a studio at the time with taxes at peak season it was $365 a night. when we looked at the numbers when we bought into the DVC four years ago,the cost of the points,plus the dues,it came out that the room was costing us $65 a night. So even though you are paying your dues monthly,or all at once, it's very well worth it. We put off for years buying in.I kick myself for that. We now have 554 points and will be buying more in a year or so.It's just a great deal if you really like to stay on Disney property..

 

[Dean]

DVC will only save you money if you plan to go to WDW every year and stay on property at a moderate or higher and not do long weekends. Even for a moderate, it's a little iffy if you take the recent discounts into account. What DVC does is give you better vacations for about the same you might pay otherwise.

The dues are high but if you compare to what you're getting, it can still be a good deal. You will not ever be able to make the numbers work if you compare to off site discount hotels or timeshares.

 

[cdy16zz]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaveH]

As Dean said you break even and go ahead if you use moderates. We think in the long run will will be ahead also but it make take more than 10 years. We are happy with DVC and are glad we did it. I just wanted to let you know for us, even though we would pay cash for All Stars only we feel it is worth it for us too. Good luck on whatever you decide.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Another thing to consider is if you get a home equity loan and pay off your DVC imediately, you get the tax benefit of the mortgage, and then dues is your only additional concern. We feel we broke even a long time ago, and there is now other way we can stay in a 2 or 3 bedroom villa for what we pay in dues each year. Maybe that is why we don't mind "squandering" points on a 2 bedroom for 3 or 4 people. We do it because we can!!

 

[BobH]

I believe the value of DVC lies in the quality of accomodations and the flexibility it offers. I was fortunate enough to pay cash for 240 points that cost me $14,800. I have been a member slightly under 3 years and if I had paid rack rate for my reservations I would have spent $11000. So I feel I will break even after about 2 more vacations - if I reserve a 1 bedroom or larger unit. Dues are a continuing expense but when you consider that you save 11% (Florida) room tax by being an owner I figure I would have spent about $220 a year on taxes anyway. So I feel the dues are not as high as they appear at first glance. I realize we pay real estate tax as a part of our dues but my annual taxes are lower than what I would have paid to rent the same rooms. I also have the flexibility of letting my adult children use my points and send them on vacations they probably would not be able to afford. It has to make sense to you to be a good value but if you are committed to taking vacations and are going to spend the money anyway I think you'll find it difficult to match the value you get for the money you spend.