Dual Enrollment-do your kids participate?

[golfgal]

Many states have the option of taking college level classes in high school and having them double count for both high school and college classes. Those combined with AP classes, how many college credits will your child have going into their first year in college? I am having a debate with someone on another board and I wanted to see who's area was more close to the norm.

edit: I should qualify this-let's assume for continuity that a semester long course in college is worth 4 credits and the corresponding dual enrollment class is the same (so if a student takes a full year in high school that is 2 college semesters so 8 credits). Not all colleges have the same credit assignment for their classes.

 

[Acklander]

My neice did the dual enrollment. She lived in Cambridge and took the college level classes at UMass. When she started college it was her 3rd year. It saved her lots of money doing it this way.

 

[barkley]

in washington we have dual enrollment-it's called "running start". starting in the junior year of high school a student can take up to 18 units per quarter through the public colleges or universities which can cover their high school requirements.

that said-the high schools only give 1 unit PER CLASS, whereas an individual class for the college's purposes can earn a student up to 5 units.

the norm for a student doing full time running start is to end up with 2 full years of college units upon high school graduation (so about 72 units b/c most take the full time equivilent of 12 per quarter with summers off).

we are attending a graduation party next weekend for a neighbor's daughter-she enters college as a freshman/junior in the fall (freshman for the purpose of scholarships/junior as far as her units and the program she was accepted into). i think her parents said she's got just shy of 70 college units.

great program-the 2 years she did under dual enrollment were tuition free, and the next 2 years she qualifies for freshman/sophmore scholarships that cover almost the entirety of that tuition).

 

[sbsteel]

My college roommate did this and I didn't even know that option exsisted (back in mid-90s). She lived in a large suburb of Chicago with many academic options and I came from a small farm town with one public high school in the county. She entered our freshman year with fifteen credit hours. I felt angry she had these opportunities that I didn't even know exsisted - and would have taken advantage of had I had access. (Rant over, lol)

Maybe this other person doesn't have have access to the options you do because s/he's from a much more rural area?

 

[golfgal]

in washington we have dual enrollment-it's called "running start". starting in the junior year of high school a student can take up to 18 units per quarter through the public colleges or universities which can cover their high school requirements.

that said-the high schools only give 1 unit PER CLASS, whereas an individual class for the college's purposes can earn a student up to 5 units.

the norm for a student doing full time running start is to end up with 2 full years of college units upon high school graduation (so about 72 units b/c most take the full time equivilent of 12 per quarter with summers off).

we are attending a graduation party next weekend for a neighbor's daughter-she enters college as a freshman/junior in the fall (freshman for the purpose of scholarships/junior as far as her units and the program she was accepted into). i think her parents said she's got just shy of 70 college units.

great program-the 2 years she did under dual enrollment were tuition free, and the next 2 years she qualifies for freshman/sophmore scholarships that cover almost the entirety of that tuition).

Our dual enrollment is also free-INCLUDING text books and supplies. It is a GREAT program.

In this debate the other party is suggesting that very few kids graduate with 1-2 years of college credits that is just isn't possible (she said in her area most kids only took one or two classes period), but my personal experience with the program in our state tells me otherwise. Our kids have the option of taking college level classes in the high school or at the college. Many opt for the classes in the high school so they don't have to treck back and forth to the college. In our old town the high school is right across the street from the college so they don't offer classes in the high school and the kids just walk across the street to take their college classes.

 

[powellrj]

It was different at our school. It was only available in English and the cost was almost $400 per semester. My DS took it because it was a little cheaper than a college course and it was worth 3 credits, but when I had already paid book fees of almost $300, show choir fees of $900 plus all the other added senior expenses, money was a huge factor as to why most kids didn't take advantage of it. The same for AP classes. Sure its a great deal, but when I had to pay $90 for each test and hope that they pass it, some people aren't willing to take the gamble.

 

[golfgal]

My college roommate did this and I didn't even know that option exsisted (back in mid-90s). She lived in a large suburb of Chicago with many academic options and I came from a small farm town with one public high school in the county. She entered our freshman year with fifteen credit hours. I felt angry she had these opportunities that I didn't even know exsisted - and would have taken advantage of had I had access. (Rant over, lol)

Maybe this other person doesn't have have access to the options you do because s/he's from a much more rural area?

She said they have the options but most kids don't take advantage of them.

 

[barkley]

My college roommate did this and I didn't even know that option exsisted (back in mid-90s). She lived in a large suburb of Chicago with many academic options and I came from a small farm town with one public high school in the county. She entered our freshman year with fifteen credit hours. I felt angry she had these opportunities that I didn't even know exsisted - and would have taken advantage of had I had access. (Rant over, lol)

Maybe this other person doesn't have have access to the options you do because s/he's from a much more rural area?

i have to give kudos to our state in this respect.

we have lots of isolated rural areas so in addition to the option of a student taking the courses on the college campus, they can take them on-line at their assigned high school, and in the last few years it's been enhanced such that a student can do them on-line from home (and the home schoolers love this option).

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Our dual enrollment is also free-INCLUDING text books and supplies. It is a GREAT program.

In this debate the other party is suggesting that very few kids graduate with 1-2 years of college credits that is just isn't possible (she said in her area most kids only took one or two classes period), but my personal experience with the program in our state tells me otherwise. Our kids have the option of taking college level classes in the high school or at the college. Many opt for the classes in the high school so they don't have to treck back and forth to the college. In our old town the high school is right across the street from the college so they don't offer classes in the high school and the kids just walk across the street to take their college classes.

I taught high school science in both British Columbia, Canada and in Western Australia. I really haven't seen these programmes in either place (although the rare school might offer the IB programme or a couple of AP classes taken by a few select students).

Kids in Canada generally start at a younger age than in the States...my DD11 is a full 18 months younger than a lot of the kids in her classes (she's going to an American international school now). If she were to finish with two years of university under her belt, she'd be a college senior at 18 . I really wouldn't consider that a good thing.

My high school and university experiences consisted of more than just a ledger of credits. Each class offered me something to change and expand my way of thinking and develop new skills. Although I can see the financial benefits to getting a 'free' college education, I can't help but think that these programmes short-change kids.

JMHO.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Around here, it's fairly common. In addition, we have block scheduling--it's fairly routine for a senior to finish up all their requirements by mid-way through senior year, and do a semester at a local college before graduation. I don't know that many seniors, so I can't tell you how many credits or whatnot.

My oldest is only a freshman, and isn't interested in dual enrollment right now. However, I'm keeping my antennae up, since my younger DD (age 7) is what I call "Holy Crap!" gifted, and isn't likely to do the traditional K-12 route (don't know what she'll do, exactly, but I keep my eyes and ears open as to what's available).

 

[golfgal]

I taught high school science in both British Columbia, Canada and in Western Australia. I really haven't seen these programmes in either place (although the rare school might offer the IB programme or a couple of AP classes taken by a few select students).

Kids in Canada generally start at a younger age than in the States...my DD11 is a full 18 months younger than a lot of the kids in her classes (she's going to an American international school now). If she were to finish with two years of university under her belt, she'd be a college senior at 18 . I really wouldn't consider that a good thing.

My high school and university experiences consisted of more than just a ledger of credits. Each class offered me something to change and expand my way of thinking and develop new skills. Although I can see the financial benefits to getting a 'free' college education, I can't help but think that these programmes short-change kids.

JMHO.

I don't think you really understand the programs then, they are actually very beneficial to the kids academically and financially. It is a way for the kids to take more challenging courses. What grade is your DD? What age do kids start in Canada?

 

[barkley]

Our dual enrollment is also free-INCLUDING text books and supplies. It is a GREAT program.

In this debate the other party is suggesting that very few kids graduate with 1-2 years of college credits that is just isn't possible (she said in her area most kids only took one or two classes period), but my personal experience with the program in our state tells me otherwise. Our kids have the option of taking college level classes in the high school or at the college. Many opt for the classes in the high school so they don't have to treck back and forth to the college. In our old town the high school is right across the street from the college so they don't offer classes in the high school and the kids just walk across the street to take their college classes.

i think the kids around here are successful with it because there's a cooperative relationship between the high schools and the colleges. there's oversight by both to ensure that the student's goals are being met.

with some kids they have no intention of going on to get a degree, they want to get certification in a trade. in that case the counselors at both look to what classes for the certification could be swapped out for high school graduation requirements, or if a pre-requisite course is needed at the college weather that pre-req. could cover a high school requirement. the goal is to have them graduate high school with the college units they need for their individual career/education path.

kids that want to enroll in the program have to have a minimum gpa (but it's not insanely high), and there's several orientations offered each year with the goal that if your student wants to take advantage of the program you begin looking at in their sophmore fall/winter school year.

 

[golfgal]

i think the kids around here are successful with it because there's a cooperative relationship between the high schools and the colleges. there's oversight by both to ensure that the student's goals are being met.

with some kids they have no intention of going on to get a degree, they want to get certification in a trade. in that case the counselors at both look to what classes for the certification could be swapped out for high school graduation requirements, or if a pre-requisite course is needed at the college weather that pre-req. could cover a high school requirement. the goal is to have them graduate high school with the college units they need for their individual career/education path.

kids that want to enroll in the program have to have a minimum gpa (but it's not insanely high), and there's several orientations offered each year with the goal that if your student wants to take advantage of the program you begin looking at in their sophmore fall/winter school year.

Your program sounds pretty much the same as our program. The kids can take the classes at the high school, at the college or online. Not all high schools have the option of taking a class in the high school with a teacher present in the classroom because the schools are just too small, mostly in rural areas, but they do have the online option. I do know some of these schools will have the online class going in the high school and the kids take it during one of their class periods and have an aid sit in to supervise. In MN you have to be in the top 50% of the class, have 2.0-2.5 something like that or score a minimum of I'm not sure what on the ACT/SAT but most college bound kids do this anyway.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

I don't think you really understand the programs then, they are actually very beneficial to the kids academically and financially. It is a way for the kids to take more challenging courses. What grade is your DD? What age do kids start in Canada?

I have no doubt that there is a financial benefit to this programme. I can see how it would be especially helpful for lower-income families.

I also believe that it is important to offer academically challenging courses. However, if the high school courses are not challenging enough for the majority of students, or the college-level classes are appropriate for the average 15-year-old high school junior, I might think that both levels of classes should be more academically rigorous to meet the needs of those students.

I can see the value of the programme...I just can't help but feel deep-down that these kids are missing out on years of education for the sake of saving money.


As for my DD11,she was born at the end of November and is just finishing Grade 6. The cut-off for kindergarten in British Columbia and Ontario (can't speak for the other provinces) is December 31st of the year they turn 5. I've never heard of any children being 'red-shirted' because they were near the cut-off dates. Her school here has a cut-off at the end of June, and red-shirting seems very, very common for kids born after the 1st of May.

 

[monkeybug]

I did this! My High School called it College Connection, and I spent my senior year at the college campus. We had a teacher at the college who taught us study skills, economics (I don't remember why they had us all take the high school version and not a college course for this), and acted as a sort of guidance counselor. My books were included and the program was free. My senior year of high school was also my freshman year of college, it was nice to knock both out at once.

 

[dis-happy]

Most of the homeschoolers around here make use of it at some point. You have to be 16, classes are free but you have to pay for the books. I wanted at least one class on my dd's high school transcript to show the colleges that she was able to do college level work (no AP option for homeschoolers). Others we know had their AA by the time they graduated high school.

One homeschooled boy we know is taking very high level math classes via dual enrollment....no high school would be able to keep up with him even if he were enrolled there (in 7th grade he scored an 800 on the math SAT).

 

[Rora]

I took dual enrollment and AP classes. I went into college as a sophomore and had about 30 credits before I even set foot on campus.

It was a blessing! I graduate in 3 years instead of 4 and didn't have to take the basic classes like English 101.

 

[mhsjax]

My kids are not old enough to do this, but I have talked with other parents about it. One thing that I didn't think of as explained to me by some other parents, is if you have a child that is sure of his major then great, it cuts down the time in college, but for some that really have no idea what they want to do, it forces them to declare a major earlier than they normally would have to. So I guess it just depends on the child. I think it is great for some, but not for others.

 

[laurafergie]

All three of my older ones did this, though my DS23 only ended up with 12 credits (he was at a private school and the opportunity was limited).

My two DDs19 were at a public school with block scheduling. Books were free, transportation was free, the classes cost $100 each - but are waived if you are part of the "Free and Reduced Lunch Program" at school".

They both graduated high school with 36 college hours and a Honors Diploma. They were 3 college semesters ahead, and because of the regular honors high school classes they took - some of the "General Education" items were waived - The foreign language requirement comes to mind - they had had 3 years of Spanish in high school. 1st DD19 still had to take a few Gen Ed classes, but 2nd DD19 started college taking her Major's classes directly.

Dual enrollment is usually on board with the state schools and credits transfers well. It's hit and miss with private schools - which was a big part in the decision making process in which college to attend. i.e. Best credit transfer, best school ranking, best bank for the buck.

2nd DD19 is going to summer school this year, and will graduate from UVA two years early. 1st DD19 is also going to summer school and will graduate from VCU 1.5 years early. Still thinking on Grad school.

The only cons of Dual Enrollment so far have been - There is no easing into college - they had to declare their Majors right away, take harder classes for their Majors right away, and has been quite a detriment getting into internship programs. Mainly because of their age - they are competing with people 2 years older and more experience, but the same education level.

Dual enrollment is a super opportunity for any student that can do it and take advantage of it.

 

[golfgal]

Most of the homeschoolers around here make use of it at some point. You have to be 16, classes are free but you have to pay for the books. I wanted at least one class on my dd's high school transcript to show the colleges that she was able to do college level work (no AP option for homeschoolers). Others we know had their AA by the time they graduated high school.

One homeschooled boy we know is taking very high level math classes via dual enrollment....no high school would be able to keep up with him even if he were enrolled there (in 7th grade he scored an 800 on the math SAT).

My son has a classmate like this. He tested out of all high school math in 8th grade and has been taking a specially designed math program from some top math professors around the country. He is scary smart in math (and chemistry/physics). He was recruited by MIT but ended up choosing Berkley instead .

My kids are not old enough to do this, but I have talked with other parents about it. One thing that I didn't think of as explained to me by some other parents, is if you have a child that is sure of his major then great, it cuts down the time in college, but for some that really have no idea what they want to do, it forces them to declare a major earlier than they normally would have to. So I guess it just depends on the child. I think it is great for some, but not for others.

Most of the classes kids take are the general eds required both by high school and college-Language Arts, Math, Science, Social Science and some kids also take foreign languages if they started in Middle School here and went through level 5 at the high school.