DSLR startup costs

[Groucho]

I have to disagree with all the "must have" lists here. How about this:

Must have:
DSLR with lens (kit lens will suffice), battery(ies), memory card

Everything else is not a must-have. RAW converter? Your camera comes with a perfectly functional one (except maybe Nikons, but not 100% sure). External flash, battery grip, cable release, CP filter, extra lenses? Nice but certainly not necessary.

Tripod, editing software, bag, batteries, memory cards, etc - those are all things that are just as important (or unimportant, depending on your opinion) with a PnS.

Yes, it can be a slippery slope, but there's no law saying that you can't use a DSLR like an oversized PnS and enjoy the sharper photos without needing to go nuts with accessories.

 

[Furgus]

I have to disagree with all the "must have" lists here. How about this:

Must have:
DSLR with lens (kit lens will suffice), battery(ies), memory card

Everything else is not a must-have. RAW converter? Your camera comes with a perfectly functional one (except maybe Nikons, but not 100% sure). External flash, battery grip, cable release, CP filter, extra lenses? Nice but certainly not necessary.

Tripod, editing software, bag, batteries, memory cards, etc - those are all things that are just as important (or unimportant, depending on your opinion) with a PnS.

Yes, it can be a slippery slope, but there's no law saying that you can't use a DSLR like an oversized PnS and enjoy the sharper photos without needing to go nuts with accessories.

I must say I agree with that....but I don't follow much of that. I have NAS really really bad, but Groucho is correct, you don't NEED a lot of stuff, but once you get a dSLR, you sure are going to WANT a lot of stuf. It is bad, I need help......

 

[MICKEY88]

I have to disagree with all the "must have" lists here. How about this:

Must have:
DSLR with lens (kit lens will suffice), battery(ies), memory card

Everything else is not a must-have. RAW converter? Your camera comes with a perfectly functional one (except maybe Nikons, but not 100% sure). External flash, battery grip, cable release, CP filter, extra lenses? Nice but certainly not necessary.

Tripod, editing software, bag, batteries, memory cards, etc - those are all things that are just as important (or unimportant, depending on your opinion) with a PnS.

Yes, it can be a slippery slope, but there's no law saying that you can't use a DSLR like an oversized PnS and enjoy the sharper photos without needing to go nuts with accessories.

excellent points,, years ago, most people sufficed with a 35mm slr and the 50mm lens it came with, before the development of zoom lenses, the average person certainly couldn't justify investing in a bag full of telephoto lenses of varying lengths..

 

[Nikel]

I have to disagree with all the "must have" lists here. How about this:

Must have:
DSLR with lens (kit lens will suffice), battery(ies), memory card

Everything else is not a must-have. RAW converter? Your camera comes with a perfectly functional one (except maybe Nikons, but not 100% sure). External flash, battery grip, cable release, CP filter, extra lenses? Nice but certainly not necessary.

Well that definitely depends on what your intended use is. No way would I take on a wedding without a flash, plenty of extra memory and batteries, several lenses, and a back-up body. And a kit lens certainly wouldn't be fast enough for most weddings. The battery grip, not really unnecessary, but I'd sure hate to be without mine. Even just for a portrait shot, I bring my flash, reflectors, and a couple of different lenses.

For just taking pictures on vacation and of family, my must have list would be much much smaller - the camera, a decent "all purpose" zoom, a 50mm lens, a couple of batteries, and a couple of 1 gb cards. Oh, and something decent (durable and comfortable to carry for extended periods of time) to carry it all around in.

 

[handicap18]

I have to disagree with all the "must have" lists here. How about this:

Must have:
DSLR with lens (kit lens will suffice), battery(ies), memory card

Everything else is not a must-have. RAW converter? Your camera comes with a perfectly functional one (except maybe Nikons, but not 100% sure). External flash, battery grip, cable release, CP filter, extra lenses? Nice but certainly not necessary.

Tripod, editing software, bag, batteries, memory cards, etc - those are all things that are just as important (or unimportant, depending on your opinion) with a PnS.

Yes, it can be a slippery slope, but there's no law saying that you can't use a DSLR like an oversized PnS and enjoy the sharper photos without needing to go nuts with accessories.

I think I fall more into this way thinking. For years I used a film SLR and had 2 lenses, an external flash and a tripod. On top of that I mostly used it as an oversized PnS and was VERY happy with the sharper photos.

I also agree with Jann,,,, this internet thing has cost me more money than anything else,,,, EVER. I've learned more being part of this board than at any other time. In addition to that I've spent more money on equipment because of this board to. There's just too much information out there these days. The fact that I've gotten back into the photography side of picture taking again has nothing to do with how much more equipment I now want.

 

[jann1033]

i think the digital age has made people more camera savvy anyway..how many people had a P&s that could zoom to 400mm and have manual controls until fairly recently? it seems to me those people wouldn't be happy with anything less than a dslr if they want to upgrade . but the guy who takes 6x snapshots of the wife and kids at the beach once a yr doesn't need (or maybe really want) a dslr to do it imo

it reminds me of this guy i saw buying a $$$$$heavy duty backpack for backpack camping at an outfitter store...and no offense to the guy it was pretty obvious he probably never set foot on a trail in his life( i don't hike much any more either so i'm not making fun of his physical abilities) he just wanted a nifty backpack that was way more than he needed( he was buying it really fast as well cause he told the sales guy his wife would flip if she caught him ) sometimes you just want something you don't really have any "use" for

 

[Groucho]

Well that definitely depends on what your intended use is. No way would I take on a wedding without a flash, plenty of extra memory and batteries, several lenses, and a back-up body. And a kit lens certainly wouldn't be fast enough for most weddings. The battery grip, not really unnecessary, but I'd sure hate to be without mine. Even just for a portrait shot, I bring my flash, reflectors, and a couple of different lenses.

Well, that really has nothing to do with DSLR vs PnS, that has to do with being a professional photographer.

it reminds me of this guy i saw buying a $$$$$heavy duty backpack for backpack camping at an outfitter store...and no offense to the guy it was pretty obvious he probably never set foot on a trail in his life( i don't hike much any more either so i'm not making fun of his physical abilities) he just wanted a nifty backpack that was way more than he needed( he was buying it really fast as well cause he told the sales guy his wife would flip if she caught him

You mean like the average SUV buyer?

(Just a joke, for the easily-offended SUV drivers out there!)

I think I fall more into this way thinking. For years I used a film SLR and had 2 lenses, an external flash and a tripod. On top of that I mostly used it as an oversized PnS and was VERY happy with the sharper photos.

Same here (except not a PnS as my SLR was all-manual.) I used my K1000 with a cheap junky 28-75mm lens and an almost as cheap 70-210mm lens and later a Sigma 28mm F2.8 for many years and was able to produce, IMHO, some really nice-quality photos. I had a cheapie external flash (no internal) and no tripod to call my own, though I borrowed my father's a couple times. Oh, I did have a decent Tamrac bag (still using it) and a cable release - and most amazing, I was very happy with all my gear and had no interest in upgrading! I didn't even care (and still don't, when I use it) that it's manual focus and I need to manually set the shutter speed and aperture. (Heck, using the exposure needle generally is more reliable than any built-in automatic exposure meter IMHO, since it's got a human verifying the correct setting.)

Now I'm excited about upgrading at some point to get Hyperprogram and customizable program line, weathersealing, etc...

 

[AndrewWG]

I would almost specify this as a need although it really is more of a want, but the shortcourse book for whatever camera you are using is fantastic! This has shown me things that my 30D could do that I just never knew. The user manuals for most cameras show you how to get to different things, but don't show you actually how or why you should use that thing when you get there. This book shows all the hows and whys. It also has online video animations that show you too. It is published for MANY types of cameras (DSLR's and P&S) and is a great supplement to the user manual. $25 for a pdf download, more if you want a bound copy. I just wish I had bought it when I was using my S2IS more.

http://www.shortcourses.com/store/

Andy

 

[tyedye]

This is all very informative and helped me decide to not go the dSLR route at the present but learn how to use my current camera (Panasonic Lumix FZ20 which is similar to the Canon S2 or S3) more with the manual features.

I don't think that I want (nor do I have the time with active kids) to spend alot of time post processing photo's and reading all the comments here it seems as though the point and shoot camera's do a better job at that in camera than a dSLR does.

So since I've been using all auto settings, it's time to learn about shutter speed, exposure, etc.

 

[muphoto]

I would have to disagree with Mickey88 about the use of filters. I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years now and I always use a UV filter on front of my glass. I can't tell you the number of filters I have tossed over the years because of scratches and other blemishes that have found their way onto the filter. If not for the filter those things would be on the front element of the lens.
I agree they don't offer much in the way of protection from dropping or bumping a lens, although I have an 80-200 that I dropped about six months ago, the filter shattered, the lens is fine.

 

[DVC Jen]

You mean like the average SUV buyer?

(Just a joke, for the easily-offended SUV drivers out there!)

HEY!!!


OK OK so it is really a mini van - I can pretend though can't I?

 

[Khokhonutt]

This is all very informative and helped me decide to not go the dSLR route at the present but learn how to use my current camera (Panasonic Lumix FZ20 which is similar to the Canon S2 or S3) more with the manual features.

I don't think that I want (nor do I have the time with active kids) to spend alot of time post processing photo's and reading all the comments here it seems as though the point and shoot camera's do a better job at that in camera than a dSLR does.

So since I've been using all auto settings, it's time to learn about shutter speed, exposure, etc.

I'd agree that learning the whole manual thing is a cool deal and probably what I've spent the most time with since moving to a DSLR.

I don't, however, agree with the perspective that point and shoots do a better job and allow for less post processing. I think the more accurate statement is that a DSLR, using RAW files, allows for a greater ability and better results when you do post process.

It's also probably true that the average point and shoot users simply does less after taking the shot than the average SLR user. But I think that is more a function of the increased options and perhaps level of interest in photo specifics. Again, I'm just talking averages here, I know there are exceptions to nearly every rule.

I spent far more time post processing with my point and shoot trying to recover dark pictures. The post processing I do now is mainly to tweak pictures. The difference for me now is that I get pictures I would have never gotten with my point and shoot. Especially in low light situations. This is not just because I make more use of the manual settings, it also has to do with a greater flexiblity in lens options and the ability to manually focus, which I didn't have on my non slr cameras.

Believe me, I get the whole time and kids thing and I don't disagree with your decision, I just thought it was worth clarifying a couple of those points.

 

[Groucho]

HEY!!!


OK OK so it is really a mini van - I can pretend though can't I?

Hey, I'm a big minivan supporter, don't worry about me giving you a hard time. The biggest SUV you can buy has less room than a minivan... but that's a whole separate discussion.

Back on topic, I'd agree that DSLR's generally produce better jpgs out of the box than PnSs, the thing with post-processing is that you can make them even that much better again! But you can post-process JPGs from a PnS too and there's no law against using a DSLR as a fancy PnS for the higher quality. But again, they're not for everyone, due to size and weight and cost.

 

[Rob R]

that is one that is highly Debatable , UV filters are pushed highly by salepeople only to up their sales and commission.,

any extra piece of glass in front of your lens, can cause degradation of the image and increase the chances of flare...,, a good lens hood offers the same protection, possibly more so, if you drop the lens with a metal filter their is no softening of the impact, with a plastic lens hood the blow is softened..plus in a situation such as hitting head on against a door or something similar, the filter is very close to front lens element and might offer no protection, again the lens hood sticking out farther prevent anything from hitting the glass..

if you take a poll of professional photographers, most will never use a filter unless it will somehow improve the image, but never just for protection.... that's what good insurance is for...

well said. let's not forget that adding a 25$ filter turns your 800$ lens into one with $25 optics. not to mention, small scratches on your front lens will not show up on your pictures anyway, depth of field is usally pushed way past that.

 

[Rob R]

Great post. big items are a gadget bag that will hold all of your stuff, a small bag that you can keep just the essentials in. and a GREAT tripod. Great tripods are generally not available anywhere you can purchase soap or bikes. Most come from companies that many folks won't be able to say. plan to spend at LEAST 125 or more on a tripod and head.

extra batteries are a must too. they can add up pretty quick, unless you can find a replacement online. i have used sterlingtek and had good luck with them.

don't forget a few good books to learn all the stuff(go to your library. if you check out a particular book 3-4 times, then buy it...not before, many photography books seem great, but offer little in real value down the road.)

FWIW

rob

 

[Master Mason]

Hey, I'm a big minivan supporter, don't worry about me giving you a hard time. The biggest SUV you can buy has less room than a minivan... but that's a whole separate discussion.

But the mini van will not pull my boat

 

[Rob R]

But the mini van will not pull my boat

i think you'll find such great handling and excitmemt with minivan ownership, that extra vehicles will be unnecessary.

plus on our mini, we put the boat on top--a canoe.

 

[AndrewWG]

This is all very informative and helped me decide to not go the dSLR route at the present but learn how to use my current camera (Panasonic Lumix FZ20 which is similar to the Canon S2 or S3) more with the manual features.

I don't think that I want (nor do I have the time with active kids) to spend alot of time post processing photo's and reading all the comments here it seems as though the point and shoot camera's do a better job at that in camera than a dSLR does.

So since I've been using all auto settings, it's time to learn about shutter speed, exposure, etc.

Before I bought my 30D, I made an effort to take photos with my S2IS in all manual or Av mode only and I used the viewfinder instead of the LCD to compose my shots. I think that this really helped me get a better idea of what the camera actually does and got me over the whole "needing" an LCD to compose. I probably did this for about 3 months before buying the new camera.

I was happy that I had decided to do this when I got the 30D as I felt a bit more confident with the camera at that point. The only thing I would have to say is that overall, I think the learning curve has still been tough on me. There is still ALOT to learn once you make the jump to the DSLR, but if you start with the p&s in manual modes, you'll be a bit ahead of the game.

 

[Khokhonutt]

i think you'll find such great handling and excitmemt with minivan ownership, that extra vehicles will be unnecessary.

plus on our mini, we put the boat on top--a canoe.

So am I getting this right? A mini-van is part of the DSLR startup costs? Hmmm. Til they make one in a diesel that will pull $14k+ lbs, I'll stick with my F250.

... but that's not required for a DSLR unless you buy LOTS of accessories ...

 

[tyedye]

Back on topic, I'd agree that DSLR's generally produce better jpgs out of the box than PnSs, the thing with post-processing is that you can make them even that much better again!

That comment has me wanting a DSLR again.

But again, they're not for everyone, due to size and weight and cost

And then there's the cost which I'm not sure I'm ready to invest in yet since there's still so much I can learn to use with my current camera.

But you can post-process JPGs from a PnS too and there's no law against using a DSLR as a fancy PnS for the higher quality.

Here again, that would be a big plus. I usually just print my pictures without any post processing. But sometimes when I do I will use the auto correct feature and I'd say it's about 50-50 whether I like the corrected image better than the original. Perhaps I have alot to learn about photo processing too.