Drowning?? Arts of animation

[dprincessmom]

A little boy is dead; A family shattered. Preventable accident or not, these 2 things don't change.

As a parent who has had to bury her child, let me assure you that no matter the circumstances, these parents are blaming themselves more than anyone on social media could ever do.
That blame will live with them forever and the what ifs will haunt them until the day they die.

Praying for this family that will never be whole again.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

My three year old can and does unbuckle himself out of the stroller from time to time. He is also stronger than I am and can wiggle free from my grasp. He is adventurous and free-spirited, and the hardest human being to control. Some kids are mild-mannered and rule-followers by nature, and some are just not. Be grateful that yours apparently were, and please stop judging parents of children, like mine, who are more spirited. It is incredibly stressful to take him anywhere, and knowing there are people out there judging me and my child when he misbehaves (like a lot of 3 year olds do!) simply because they were parents of a totally different kind of child make me ragey.

What are his consequences for getting away from you? My best friend has a 3 year old like this and it scares the crap out of me. He could easily have drowned at Fort Wilderness. While at breakfast at Trails End, he simply just walked out and could've been in the water before anyone noticed. I say that to let you know that I do understand how fast things can happen, but he has no consequences for his actions. That's why he feels like he can walk out of restaurants. If he touched fire, he wouldn't do it again, because it has a consequence attached. Don't get me wrong, this boy was just born this way. But, not enough is done to combat what nature has given them. My point is that some people have runners, and SOME will never change. But, most kids behavior can be adjusted if the guardian is willing to actually discipline their child. Not casting aspersions on you, just giving my experience.

 

[Wenny]

I'm so sorry for your loss, dprincessmom.

 

[Magpie]

In large crowds our 3 year old was in a stroller or being carried. It is just different styles of parenting. It breaks my heart it happened. But many on Facebook agree with my point of view. I am going to respectfully say we will disagree. Also as a former water safety instructor my children knew how to to swim at that age.

And yes as a former teacher, if you have a runner and some kids are, I say a harness at theme parks is a good thing.

But maybe discussion will help someone else. We have over 40 years of going to Disney, it can be a very dangerous place.

My first started walking at 8 months old, and rode in a carrier on my hip, when walking wasn't an option. But when she was 16 months old, I had a pregnancy scare and my doctor said I wasn't allowed to pick her up any more. So we bought a stroller and attempted to strap her into it. She screamed bloody murder, but that's okay... I'm not a wimp. I can ignore an enraged child. But, that wasn't all she did. She also tried to fling herself face forward out of it, rocked the chair side to side, and would grab posts, people's legs, vegetables, anything she could get her hands (and/or teeth) on. And then she'd either try to pull herself out of the chair or fling the object in her hands at the people around her. For weeks I tried to train her to the chair. Didn't work. Eventually I decided she would be allowed to walk everywhere, and I justified it by pointing out that she was learning independence and getting good exercise at the same time.

Sometimes our "parenting style" is dictated by our child.

Also, as a former water safety instructor, you should well know that children cannot be water-proofed. We don't know if this child could swim or not, because even toddlers who swim beautifully can drown in very little water, if they go in badly. When my son (then a toddler) tipped into the water head first and sank to the bottom... he'd been swimming since he was six months old!!! That said, I do agree with you that every young child should be taught to swim, the sooner the better. Just don't count on their skill at swimming to keep them safe in water. (I also agree on the usefulness of harnesses, with some kids.)

Finally, Facebook, being made up of your friends and family, tends to be a bit of an echo chamber. Just as the DisBoards, being made up of Disney fans, forms another kind of echo chamber. Don't assume that just because your friends on Facebook agree with you, that means you're correct and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. There are many views and perspectives in the world, and in some places you will find agreement with your ideas, and in other places you'll be in the minority. This is actually something I constantly have to remind myself of: Two people can disagree, and even debate a topic, without either being wrong.

 

[delilah]

About a year ago in our area, a group of 5 high school students were swimming near a dam on a small river in our area. The river was in flood stage, one of the girls got too close to the edge and fell over. Two of the boys who were with her drowned trying to rescue her. Two of the kids realized the current was too strong, and got out unharmed. The dam, fortunately, was close to the fire station, and were able to get the girl out alive. The girl is in a persistent vegetative state. It took trained rescuers three days to find the deceased in the currents near the dam. The family of one of the boys who died is my patients. It was terrible for them to get over the tragedy. Mom is still in therapy with a psychiatrist. I am sure the other families is equally devastated. The area is fenced with no trespassing signs where the kids were swimming. I am sure the families has more than enough guilt than to have outsiders tell them that their kids somehow deserved it because they were trespassing, or to second guess them about allowing 16 and 17 year olds the freedom to go on an outing independently. I know when I was that age, I went on outings without my parents and with friends from school. We never know what might happen when we send our kids off on a beautiful early summer day.

 

[DisneyFive]

It's my understanding that disney now has lifeguards at all their pools during operating hours and pools are locked outside of operating hours. Based on the time of the tragedy, the pool should have been open and guards on duty.

You may be right about AoA, which is the topic of this thread. Perhaps they have lifeguards at the pools whenever they are open/accessable. I'm pretty certain that's not the case in other Disney resorts, like POR. The quiet pools are swim at your own risk and pretty much open 24/7.

Dan

 

[Lilysmom]

I guess all of these hyper vigilant perfect parents never even peed with a bathroom door closed in all their years of raising children since they never took their eyes off of them for a split second. Tragedies like this bring out some of the most asinine comments I've ever seen.

My heart breaks for this family and their loss. We will be there in ten days (a few days at AOA before moving over to WLV.) It only takes a second for a tragic ACCIDENT to happen. Bending down to tie another child's shoe, applying sunscreen, tying back hair, zipping up coats, buckling another child into a stroller. One. Split.Second. It could easily have been myself or any number of us. This family is in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[brookmey]

What are his consequences for getting away from you? My best friend has a 3 year old like this and it scares the crap out of me. He could easily have drowned at Fort Wilderness. While at breakfast at Trails End, he simply just walked out and could've been in the water before anyone noticed. I say that to let you know that I do understand how fast things can happen, but he has no consequences for his actions. That's why he feels like he can walk out of restaurants. If he touched fire, he wouldn't do it again, because it has a consequence attached. Don't get me wrong, this boy was just born this way. But, not enough is done to combat what nature has given them. My point is that some people have runners, and SOME will never change. But, most kids behavior can be adjusted if the guardian is willing to actually discipline their child. Not casting aspersions on you, just giving my experience.

For some kids, consequences don't work. Some are so impulsive, consequences don't even occur to them. They just act. For kids like your friend's and the poster you quoted, you cannot do much to "combat what nature has given them." You have to work WITH what nature gave them. It's a completely different style of parenting than the mainstream styles. What you may see as not disciplining a child may be a parenting using this different style. Until you parent a child like this, you just don't know. So please, do not judge or make assumptions on the parent. If you've never been there, with that kind of kid, don't assume the parents are "bad" or not doing their job. Their job is way different than yours as a parent simply because their kid is different than yours.

I have an "adventurous, free-spirited" daughter. She was like this from birth. Trying to discipline her to adjust behavior has not worked. Either her impulsiveness took over or she was unable to connect the dots to relate the consequence to her behavior. When she was 2 she unbuckled her stroller belt and slipped out of it in the baggage area of LAX while DH and I each grabbed a bag from the carousel. She had never done that before. Thank goodness a woman nearby saw her and scooped her up. I was horrified that I didn't see, but the woman laughed and said she raised a little Houdini, too. My DD is 11 now and has ADHD. I thank God everyday that we made it out of her toddler/preschool years with no major incidents.

I feel horrible for the parents and their family. I can't imagine how it would feel to lose one of the things I love the most in my favorite place on earth. I hope in time they can find the peace they need to continue living their lives.

 

[CinderElsa]

For some kids, consequences don't work. Some are so impulsive, consequences don't even occur to them. They just act. For kids like your friend's and the poster you quoted, you cannot do much to "combat what nature has given them." You have to work WITH what nature gave them. It's a completely different style of parenting than the mainstream styles. What you may see as not disciplining a child may be a parenting using this different style. Until you parent a child like this, you just don't know. So please, do not judge or make assumptions on the parent. If you've never been there, with that kind of kid, don't assume the parents are "bad" or not doing their job. Their job is way different than yours as a parent simply because their kid is different than yours.

I have an "adventurous, free-spirited" daughter. She was like this from birth. Trying to discipline her to adjust behavior has not worked. Either her impulsiveness took over or she was unable to connect the dots to relate the consequence to her behavior. When she was 2 she unbuckled her stroller belt and slipped out of it in the baggage area of LAX while DH and I each grabbed a bag from the carousel. She had never done that before. Thank goodness a woman nearby saw her and scooped her up. I was horrified that I didn't see, but the woman laughed and said she raised a little Houdini, too. My DD is 11 now and has ADHD. I thank God everyday that we made it out of her toddler/preschool years with no major incidents.

I feel horrible for the parents and their family. I can't imagine how it would feel to lose one of the things I love the most in my favorite place on earth. I hope in time they can find the peace they need to continue living their lives.

Especially at 3. We don't even know whether or not this little boy was NT.

 

[Dismama2boys]

What are his consequences for getting away from you? My best friend has a 3 year old like this and it scares the crap out of me. He could easily have drowned at Fort Wilderness. While at breakfast at Trails End, he simply just walked out and could've been in the water before anyone noticed. I say that to let you know that I do understand how fast things can happen, but he has no consequences for his actions. That's why he feels like he can walk out of restaurants. If he touched fire, he wouldn't do it again, because it has a consequence attached. Don't get me wrong, this boy was just born this way. But, not enough is done to combat what nature has given them. My point is that some people have runners, and SOME will never change. But, most kids behavior can be adjusted if the guardian is willing to actually discipline their child. Not casting aspersions on you, just giving my experience.

I am trying not to take offense at this. We have tried time outs, reward charts, all types of positive reinforcement, taking toys away, spanking, etc. Everything. And yes, we are consistent. We've tried it all, and NOTHING works. We may be looking at a bigger issue with him. Since we also have an 18-month-old, for safety's sake we go almost nowhere. He hasn't been in a pool since he was a baby. This is such a sensitive issue with me - my cousin lost her son to drowning as a toddler. In part due to that, and also just my nature, I am the very definition of a helicopter parent. I realize you don't know me, and I am certainly not a perfect parent, but I don't like the implication that better parenting will "fix" my child. In some cases yes, but in some, definitely no. I might not have believed that if I didn't have the child that I do (although I have 2 younger sisters who acted similarly, so it wasn't a complete shock). No matter the type of child I was blessed with, I cannot imagine ever being presumptuous enough to think it could never happen to me.

My heart is breaking for this family.

 

[snapppyd]

I posted something similar in the other thread but what about where your not atcually AT the pool but just near it. I don't know the AOA layout but AKL has a walkway from Mara to the main building that is just outside the pool. So your carrying the food you just got or everyone's mugs, you take your eyes of him for a split second as you hold the door for the person behind you, and your three year hold sees something fun (maybe they are in the middle of the pool party or another kid has a fun looking pool toy) and runs for the pool. You turn around just in time to see him round the corner behind one of the big plant things that will easily hide a 3 year old. By the time you drop everything and run after him he could easily have already gotten into the pool.

THIS! When my nephew was that age he was notorious for getting away from the family. You would blink and he was gone. We were six adults on one vacation searching the entire pool area to make sure he hadn't fallen in. And no, we were not "at" the pool, we had just arrived and were walking near the area.

Terrible things can happen to the most vigilant of parents. My prayers go out to this family.

 

[Planogirl]

One time we were at SeaWorld Texas and DS and I were walking along holding hands. A large group in a hurry suddenly came up behind us and I lost his hand and for a few moments even sight of him. He somehow got swept along and disappeared.

The SeaWorld staff was amazing and one of them found him in an enclosed play area with a few other families. You had to wait to get in as only a limited number could play and one family apparently thought that he was with the family behind them and the other family thought the same. It's amazing how quick these little kids can get away.

 

[ArwenMarie]

If there is one thing I have learned through parenting is that every kid is so different, even kids in the same family. It's very easy to say that parents should be more vigilant, but until you have a little Houdini or a runner or a climber, you just don't know. There is a flip side to this too. Sometimes when you have cautious kids, or kids who get scared at stuff whether rides or movies, people will judge and say it's because the parents are babying them, etc. Again, not understanding how different every individual kid is.

 

[sabrecmc]

I saw upthread that there had been a drowning of a teenager at POP a year or so ago. I was wondering if anyone knew the circumstances of that? That seemed, well, odd, to be honest, given the depth of the pools. My child is older and a good swimmer, though we just had week long lessons to reinforce those skills, and I guess I had really felt like the risk of drowning at a pool like these was pretty slim, since she could just put her feet on the bottom and stand up (absent something like falling and banging her head). I was curious if there was some other issue going on there? Have I missed a hazard? I guess I could see it maybe if the kids were playing and the child was pushed to the bottom or something. I don't think an older child means you don't have to watch them, though I admit I don't watch as closely as I did when she was a young child and I was holding onto her the whole time.

 

[Jonell]

Prayers going out for this family!! I don't know the circumstances behind this incident but I witness what could possibly have been a tragic incident at POR pool last trip. We we're in the deepest part of the pool and a small child came over to us holding onto the side of the pool. It was obvious that he was having trouble swimming and he was trying to get out of the pool but he could not lift himself over the side. He asked me and my niece for help. He said he was 4 yrs old and he could not find his parents. We took him to the lifeguard for help. We watched as a CM circled the pool with him for more than 30 mins until they finally found his parents sitting over in a corner near the pool bar with no view of the pool!!

 

[Roxyfire]

I am trying not to take offense at this. We have tried time outs, reward charts, all types of positive reinforcement, taking toys away, spanking, etc. Everything. And yes, we are consistent. We've tried it all, and NOTHING works.

This is what people really don't understand at all. It's very difficult as is with a vacation, and a DISNEY vacation at that. Everything's exciting, the child wants to be in that pool or in the gift shops or getting ice cream.There's lots of people around and they get lost in the crowd. And that's with an average child! I couldn't take vacations with my son when he was much younger because he'd end up God knows where. Now he is "that kid" with a basic flip-style cellphone so I can at least call and locate him if something catches his eye and he wanders. He's fast, he's impulsive, and fiercely independent and that's ok! We've figured out our way. These poor people are going to go through so much and just because other people want to make assumptions. Sad.

 

[ArwenMarie]

This is what people really don't understand at all. It's very difficult as is with a vacation, and a DISNEY vacation at that. Everything's exciting, the child wants to be in that pool or in the gift shops or getting ice cream.There's lots of people around and they get lost in the crowd. And that's with an average child!

So true. Just being out of your routine increases the risk so much, whether at home or away. As far as water safety, I still don't enjoy going to parties at people's houses where they have pools. It's just stressful.

 

[andyman8]

My three year old can and does unbuckle himself out of the stroller from time to time. He is also stronger than I am and can wiggle free from my grasp. He is adventurous and free-spirited, and the hardest human being to control. Some kids are mild-mannered and rule-followers by nature, and some are just not. Be grateful that yours apparently were, and please stop judging parents of children, like mine, who are more spirited. It is incredibly stressful to take him anywhere, and knowing there are people out there judging me and my child when he misbehaves (like a lot of 3 year olds do!) simply because they were parents of a totally different kind of child make me ragey.

Bingo! Each kid is different and needs different parenting styles, so without even knowing this child, you simply can't judge.

A little boy is dead; A family shattered. Preventable accident or not, these 2 things don't change.

As a parent who has had to bury her child, let me assure you that no matter the circumstances, these parents are blaming themselves more than anyone on social media could ever do.
That blame will live with them forever and the what ifs will haunt them until the day they die.

Praying for this family that will never be whole again.

So sorry for your loss. Unimaginable. And you're right.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Regading the 2012 Pop Century drowning, from reports, the boy (13) was jumping in and out of the pool with his cousins and at some point he didn't come up. The father was present and attempted CPR. This was in the evening or nighttime and lifeguards were not on duty.

 

[JJZMgailey]

Many posts have been removed from this thread in order for it to remain open.

Insensitive and/or accusatory posts will not be tolerated here due to the nature of this horrific tragedy.