Drinking while pregnant--- child abuse?

[Mouse House Mama]

I am so tired of people saying "Well we grew up just fine!" Ugh! It makes me so mad! People had lead paint in their homes and alot of kids grew up fine. Does that mean we should all paint our homes with lead paint? I didn't have to wear a bike helmut, does that mean that my kids don't need one? Come on people give me a break!!!! As far as the BS excuse of "The doctor said it was okay" are you kidding me? Doctors are not God. They give opinions as well as medical advice. Will the same doctor who told you to knock a few back be there for you and make your child better if something should happen from you drinking a few glasses of wine a week? I'm going to guess no. I recently knew someone who was pregnant and having trouble sleeping. Her doctor told her to take benedryll and a shot of vodka ar night! There is no way you are going to convince me that you should do that. My point is that doctors don't know it all and maybe it won't harm the baby and maybe it will. If you can't make a small sacrifice like not drinking or smoking for the short time you are pregnant then I just can't imagine you making the bigger sacrifices when it comes to your children. Flame away at me but I am disgusted when I see a pregnant woman drinking and smoking. JMHO.

 

[JunieJay]

Until their is a law against it, it's between a woman and her doctor.
In some European countries, people drink wine with almost every meal and have done so for years.

My mother was European and she had wine with her meal every day of her adult life, including during the pregnancies of her 9 children. She also nursed all of us. Of course, she wasn't getting wasted, only drink 1 glass.

That said, in this day in age, and knowing what we know I knew to avoid alcohol and tobacco during my pregnancy. I agree with the poster above who said its irresponsible to drink alcohol while pregnant.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

I would never drink or smoke during pregnancy. I worked too hard to have my children to risk anything.

 

[Hannathy]

As per the research cited That is still CYA, there is no repeatable hard data or levels, it is all very shady and too many variables.

I also would hardly call a full alcoholic drink every single day for 9 months "light" drinking and IMO not what any one here is advocating. An occasional glass of wine in almost a year is not drinking every day.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

My mother got pregnant with me at 39 and She had just married my father, who turned out to have a drinking problem..A lot of people encouraged her to abort, and that was when it was illegal..Am i glad I was born? Yes.. On the other hand I don't believe that *I* existed as I do now, as I don't believe the soul is there from conception...I believe my soul would have been born eventually anyway.

huh?

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

No, I don't believe anyone has ever heard of that.

 

[poohandwendy]

There is no way you are going to convince me that you should do that.

I guess here lies the rub, for me.

There is a vast chasm between whether or not someone 'should' do that and what consitutes abuse.

I agree, I wouldn't do it and I think it's pretty irresponsible to take any unnecessary risk. However, I am not comfortable going as far as calling it abuse.

I am not comfortable diluting the use of the word with things that are merely judgement calls.

It is kind of ironic to me that we can choose to end the life of the baby, but if we decide not to then you are considered abusive for having an alcoholic drink.

I dunno, there isn't enough hard evidence to say that a drink (not getting loaded) is causing abuse to an unborn child.

 

[PaulaSB12]

This is what is told to british women who are pregnant

Toxoplasmosis is an illness caused by a parasite found in cat faeces, raw meat, soil on vegetables and, occasionally, goats' milk. In rare cases it can be passed on to the unborn baby, resulting in a range of problems, some of them serious. As a safeguard, pregnant women shouldn't eat raw or undercooked meat, unpasteurised goats' milk or cheese, or unwashed raw fruit and vegetables. Good food hygiene practices should be followed with pets too: contact with cat litter trays or soil that may have been fouled by cats should be avoided. If this isn't possible, make sure you wear gloves.

Alcohol
Heavy drinking during pregnancy will harm the unborn child, and there is evidence that it's associated with birth defects and lower birth weight. Excess alcohol may also affect the mother's nutritional status by affecting or substituting for other foods.

Pregnant women should avoid alcohol completely, the government advises, although the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists says there's no evidence a couple of units once or twice a week will harm the baby. Binges (for example, getting drunk) are definitely to be avoided


Caffeine
Caffeine, found in tea, coffee and many soft drinks, interferes with your body's absorption of iron and other nutrients. Current recommendations suggest that pregnant women should have no more than 300mg of caffeine per day, which is equivalent to four cups of coffee, six cups of tea, or eight cans of cola.

 

[mumzie2three]

Let's start policing pregnant women. There are other things that women do during pregnancy that can influence the health of the unborn baby. Some preggos don't eat enough, some eat too much, some don't wear their seatbelts, some don't take their vitamins, some drink diet soda, some drink caffeine......so you can see there are many ways in which these babies are in danger due the mother's 'bad' behavior. So I suggest having moms-to-be wear monitors and fine the women that neglect to do the 'right' thing for their babies. Problem solved!

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

Let's start policing pregnant women. There are other things that women do during pregnancy that can influence the health of the unborn baby. Some preggos don't eat enough, some eat too much, some don't wear their seatbelts, some don't take their vitamins, some drink diet soda, some drink caffeine......so you can see there are many ways in which these babies are in danger due the mother's 'bad' behavior. So I suggest having moms-to-be wear monitors and fine the women that neglect to do the 'right' thing for their babies. Problem solved!

and some eat BRIE and SUSHI! Abuser!!!!

 

[mumzie2three]

and some eat BRIE and SUSHI! Abuser!!!!

Well, I don't like Brie but I've been dying to try Sushi. I just want someone with me to tell me what's yummiest.

 

[janey99]

I would have to join the group of posters who feel it is selfish to drink and smoke during pregnancy. In the face of all the evidence, on the spectrum from bad to inconclusive, and none of it frankly good, what's the big deal about abstaining for 9.5 months?

For me, being a responsible grownup is about not necessarily doing every single thing I want to when I want to. As someone who's 9 weeks pregnant right now, after some heartbreaking miscarriages in the very recent past, it seems a small price to pay for a greater chance at a healthier child.

I was born in the late 60's - my mom smoked and drank moderately, because they didn't know any better. I could argue that I am "fine," but would I be "better" if she hadn't indulged? Would I be 5'6" instead of 5'2"? Would I have gotten into Harvard instead of Brown? Would I have had successful fullterm pregnancies rather than the miscarriages I suffered? I'll never know, and some would say it doesn't matter, because there is no argument that I am at least "fine" now, but to me, it seems the right thing to do to incorporate all current knowledge into my thinking to give my unborn baby the best chance possible at being "great" rather than "fine." There are enough things that can go wrong beyond a mother's control, I will keep a handle on as many that I have some control over that I can.

In the course of lively conversation, I have discussed this with many people IRL and I will never understand the women who make this their hill to die on - if a random food was identified (let's say, carrots) and some wisdom starting emanating from the medical community that carrots really weren't that great for developing fetuses (not necessarily fatal, but bad in certain amounts the volume of which was in dispute), and we should abstain from eating them, most people would do it in a heartbeat without a second thought. In the case of alcohol, on the other hand, there is a population that is immediately on the soap box with belligerant, defensive justifications that smack of "protesting too much." They are not a huge population, but they are definitely out there and louder than anyone else. Is alcohol so important to any individual (who at the same time claims to have no drinking problem) that this issue becomes their self-identifier? I don't get it.

 

[3jsmommy]

I think it can become abusive, anyone who drinks to the point of endangering the healthy development of their child is being abusive. Why is it abuse if you give a child alcohol after birth, but acceptable to deliver it to them in utero?

I have a few friends who think nothing of having a glass of wine while pregnant, & few times while I was preg. they would say have a glass. I always said no I don't drink while I'm pregnant, trying not to be rude.

My best friend who also didn't drink while preg. is a little more outspoken & last time we were all at a friends bridal shower & it came up again,"My Dr. says its fine" "You deserve it have a glass & relax"
My BF patted my belly & said "Sorry baby no wine for you, but don't worry your little friend James (her son 3 months) isn't allowed to drink yet either!"
That shut them up!!

If you have a couple of glasses of wine & you feel a little lightheaded your body is more relaxed what is that doing to your 2.5 lb baby? I know my Dh who is 6'3" and 230 lbs can drink a lot more than I can & his blood alcohol level would probably be lower than mine. What do you think that babies BAL is?
I think it is abuse when a child's healthy development is hindered by their mothers bad choices, whatever those choices may be.

 

[poohandwendy]

In the course of lively conversation, I have discussed this with many people IRL and I will never understand the women who make this their hill to die on - if a random food was identified (let's say, carrots) and some wisdom starting emanating from the medical community that carrots really weren't that great for developing fetuses (not necessarily fatal, but bad in certain amounts the volume of which was in dispute), and we should abstain from eating them, most people would do it in a heartbeat without a second thought. In the case of alcohol, on the other hand, there is a population that is immediately on the soap box with belligerant, defensive justifications that smack of "protesting too much." They are not a huge population, but they are definitely out there and louder than anyone else. Is alcohol so important to any individual (who at the same time claims to have no drinking problem) that this issue becomes their self-identifier? I don't get it.

I guess it all depends on the motivation. I think, for some people, it's because they really will not do without alcohol (which obviously points to an substance abuse issue)

But, for many people, I think the issue isn't so much about alcohol as it is resistance to judgmental attitudes. (especially when the word 'abuse' is tossed into the discussion) For many of us, we have seen so many differing medical opinions throughout our lifetimes, we know the 'current' medical advice will be often be replaced by different advice in the not too distant future. (and often completely contradicting current advice)

So, when you see a hard line "How could you do this EVER while pregnant, don't you know doctors say you shouldn't?" I think history has shown that there are very few legal substances that can be proven to be harmful if ingested only once or a few times during pregnancy. Most people (like myself) are just conservative and avoid all 'current' no-nos. It's just easier that way, to be safe rather than sorry. That doesn't make everyone who doesn't subscribe to the same cautious attitude abusers. That word is what makes the discussion turn into a hot button topic. JMHO

 

[mumzie2three]

I believe this discussion is just another facet of the mommy wars. You know, where we sit around judging and feeling superior to one another. The non-drinkers are better mommies than the occasional drinkers, the natural birthers are better than the epidural birthers, the breastfeeders are better than the bottlefeeders, etc.........ad nauseum. Peace out.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

If you have a couple of glasses of wine & you feel a little lightheaded your body is more relaxed what is that doing to your 2.5 lb baby? .

I can guarantee you that the terbutaline I had to take for 2 months made me much more that lightheaded.

As I said, my doctor did recommend a glass of wine a couple times a week to help relax the uterine muscles as he thought it was less invasive than the terb.

FWIW - I refused and went on terbutaline right away.

My child was born early and 2lbs lighter than any of my other children and required oxygen. He was also severly jaundiced. And now has a learning disability.

I always wonder if I should have heeded my dr's recommendations and had those couple glasses of wine when the contractions were still not that threatening.

I think each situation is different and it really is a matter between a woman and her doctor.

 

[chobie]

I believe this discussion is just another facet of the mommy wars. You know, where we sit around judging and feeling superior to one another. The non-drinkers are better mommies than the occasional drinkers, the natural birthers are better than the epidural birthers, the breastfeeders are better than the bottlefeeders, etc.........ad nauseum. Peace out.

Yep.

 

[poohandwendy]

I can guarantee you that the terbutaline I had to take for 2 months made me much more that lightheaded.

As I said, my doctor did recommend a glass of wine a couple times a week to help relax the uterine muscles as he thought it was less invasive than the terb.

FWIW - I refused and went on terbutaline right away.

My child was born early and 2lbs lighter than any of my other children and required oxygen. He was also severly jaundiced. And now has a learning disability.

I always wonder if I should have heeded my dr's recommendations and had those couple glasses of wine when the contractions were still not that threatening.

We do the best we can with the information we have at the time. There are never guarantees and we can never know if the 'other choice' would have ended with a better or worse result.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I would have to join the group of posters who feel it is selfish to drink and smoke during pregnancy. In the face of all the evidence, on the spectrum from bad to inconclusive, and none of it frankly good, what's the big deal about abstaining for 9.5 months?

For me, being a responsible grownup is about not necessarily doing every single thing I want to when I want to. As someone who's 9 weeks pregnant right now, after some heartbreaking miscarriages in the very recent past, it seems a small price to pay for a greater chance at a healthier child.

I was born in the late 60's - my mom smoked and drank moderately, because they didn't know any better. I could argue that I am "fine," but would I be "better" if she hadn't indulged? Would I be 5'6" instead of 5'2"? Would I have gotten into Harvard instead of Brown? Would I have had successful fullterm pregnancies rather than the miscarriages I suffered? I'll never know, and some would say it doesn't matter, because there is no argument that I am at least "fine" now, but to me, it seems the right thing to do to incorporate all current knowledge into my thinking to give my unborn baby the best chance possible at being "great" rather than "fine." There are enough things that can go wrong beyond a mother's control, I will keep a handle on as many that I have some control over that I can.

In the course of lively conversation, I have discussed this with many people IRL and I will never understand the women who make this their hill to die on - if a random food was identified (let's say, carrots) and some wisdom starting emanating from the medical community that carrots really weren't that great for developing fetuses (not necessarily fatal, but bad in certain amounts the volume of which was in dispute), and we should abstain from eating them, most people would do it in a heartbeat without a second thought. In the case of alcohol, on the other hand, there is a population that is immediately on the soap box with belligerant, defensive justifications that smack of "protesting too much." They are not a huge population, but they are definitely out there and louder than anyone else. Is alcohol so important to any individual (who at the same time claims to have no drinking problem) that this issue becomes their self-identifier? I don't get it.

Wonderfully-written post. I completely agree.

 

[janey99]

Poohnwendy -

I see your point. For me, the point is, drinking and smoking (unless you are addicted) are recreational activities. It should be a ho-hum decision to leave them behind for a few months for even the chance of a greater good. I could see an outcry if doctors suddenly started saying "breathing oxygen during pregnancy is a no-no - you must all abstain." But drinking? C'mon! If you're that invested in it, you (not the personal you, of course!) should re-examine your motives.

I'm like you. I actually have some skepticism about where the bright line is for drinking=damage to a fetus, but, IMO better safe than sorry. I feel this way because drinking is such a minor part of my life that the decision is no big deal. Same with the current wisdom on sushi and brie. You don't see anyone getting up in arms about "no brie" - why such a strong reaction to "no alcohol?" (Although personally, I'm missing brie more than anything!)

For the record, I judge only myself. Clearly, everyone can do what they want. I just find the vehemence of opinion on this particular issue interesting. I can't help but think it has to do with other motives.

Jane