Dopey 2020.....

[Princess KP]

Training was going well. I've recently injured my ankle and began physio. I'll still be able to complete Dopey and do my work up but its at a much slower pace. Taking it day by day and listening to my body. Not the ideal outcome but I'm not giving up!

Me too. Sprained my ankle pretty badly (Grade II) 3 weeks before the Chicago Marathon. I ran that and the W&D
Challenge this past weekend, which is probably why my ankle isn't 100% yet.
Keep seeing your physio and do the recommended exercises. You got this!

Anyone who has done it previously what are you doing between races???

I'll go to the parks or Disney Springs for a few hours. Like @DopeyBadger said, walking around helps with the recovery process.
This past January, I went to the After Hours Event at HS the night before the marathon. I don't recommend doing that. LOL

 

[PrincessV]

First b2b2b2b is on the 1st Dec ekkkkk, should we be getting up at race times for this??? The plan doesn't say.

I don't - but I live in FL and have been getting up in the wee hours for months to run before the heat becomes impossible, so when it finally gets cool enough to sleep a little later, I'm all over it!

Is anyone else here from a cold climate at this time of year? I'm finding it hard to get the motivation to actually get my bum out and that motivation gets worse when the alternative is a treadmill.

As I said, I'm in FL, so rarely do I have to contend with really cold weather, but I still totally get this: it's much the same with our infernal heat and torrential thunderstorms in summer. Honestly, all it takes is the occasional treadmill run to remind me that I'd MUCH prefer to be outside! The upside is at least you can add layers for warmth in the cold - we can only remove so many pieces of clothing to manage the heat without getting arrested down here, lol!

Anyone who has done it previously what are you doing between races???

Not much. Dinner is at 5pm, bedtime 6-7pm each day. After the 5K and 10K, I take time to eat, shower, foam roll/stretch, and rest a bit before doing a ride or two in a park and meeting friends for lunch. I don't go anywhere after the half - I use that day to do some laundry, watch a movie on DVD, read, nap, eat, whatever my body says it wants. After the full, I've got a couple hours to eat, take a hot bath, and rest a bit before meeting friends for a celebratory dinner. I know a lot of people like to walk the parks quite a bit between races, but that really doesn't work for my body: I need lots of mental down time and time off my feet.

 

[rteetz]

This past January, I went to the After Hours Event at HS the night before the marathon. I don't recommend doing that. LOL

What about a Halloween party?

 

[Princess KP]

What about a Halloween party?

Halloween party before a 10K is ok. Just don't sleep in.

 

[rteetz]

Halloween party before a 10K is ok. Just don't sleep in.

Thankful for friends to wake me up.

 

[jennamfeo]

Thankful for friends to wake me up.

You're welcomeeeeeee.

 

[Z-Knight]

btw, I've been Tapering for over 6 months now...I'm way ahead of everybody.

 

[huskies90]

I've done it five times prior. I usually head back to the hotel, get cleaned up, and then we're out for a mostly normal park day. It's a family vacation for us and my wife expects 99% attendance at everything as running is not the sole reason we're there. I keep lots of water handy, wear a pair of compression calf sleeves (Zensah), and try to get to bed around 6:30-7:30pm most nights. On the surface it may seem counterintuitive, but continuing to move throughout the day helps the recovery process from each event and makes the feeling of soreness easier to deal with for the next day.

I am in the same boat as looking at it as a family vacation first and running event second.

Question: Assuming you are running the marathon for time, how much do you take the park time and the other 3 races into account for time expectations?

The marathon is the only race where I have a goal (breaking 4 hours). The half marathon I ran last month, I did in 1:37:37 which converts to ~ 3:23. So, I think I am being realistic with my 4 hour goal. But in the back of my head, I also know that 3:23:21 is the BQ cutoff for my age group (50-54). I think if we had perfect conditions and I was only doing the marathon I would consider going for it. But with all the variables of multiple races and so much walking/park time, I think pacing for 4 hours makes more sense.

Thoughts?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Question: Assuming you are running the marathon for time, how much do you take the park time and the other 3 races into account for time expectations?

The marathon is the only race where I have a goal (breaking 4 hours). The half marathon I ran last month, I did in 1:37:37 which converts to ~ 3:23. So, I think I am being realistic with my 4 hour goal. But in the back of my head, I also know that 3:23:21 is the BQ cutoff for my age group (50-54). I think if we had perfect conditions and I was only doing the marathon I would consider going for it. But with all the variables of multiple races and so much walking/park time, I think pacing for 4 hours makes more sense.

Thoughts?

I get the following for a 1:37:37 HM.



The Predicted Ranges are based off of two different data sets of marathon runners times and their corresponding HM time from prior. Only about 6% of runners hit the "aggressive", 10% hit "High end", 25% hit "low end" and 50% hit "average". Of course this is if it were a stand-alone event.

In my 5 attempts at the Dopey Challenge I always went for the Sextuple PR Challenge by attempting to PR all 4 events (and 2 associated challenges) consecutively. During this, my attempts from year to year were reasonably even depending on my fitness level coming into race day. My 5k/10k was usually matching what my fitness would have predicted, my HM usually about 4% slower, and my M about 8-10% slower. So not saying you will, but if you attempted to PR all 4 events then the marathon time prediction would be around a 3:44 M using what I've done in the past. So that leads me to believe that if you're well trained, then a sub-4 M is doable after the 3 other events.

As a mathematical representation, my Garmin VO2max predicted the following max performances going into Dopey 2018:

5k - 18:35-19:14
10k - 38:45-40:07
HM - 1:25:30-1:28:30
M - 2:58-3:04

I ran a 20:06, 39:54, 1:30:35, and 3:15:59. So the HM was about 2-6% off and M about 6-10% off from ideal single race.

 

[huskies90]

I get the following for a 1:37:37 HM.

View attachment 451002

The Predicted Ranges are based off of two different data sets of marathon runners times and their corresponding HM time from prior. Only about 6% of runners hit the "aggressive", 10% hit "High end", 25% hit "low end" and 50% hit "average". Of course this is if it were a stand-alone event.

In my 5 attempts at the Dopey Challenge I always went for the Sextuple PR Challenge by attempting to PR all 4 events (and 2 associated challenges) consecutively. During this, my attempts from year to year were reasonably even depending on my fitness level coming into race day. My 5k/10k was usually matching what my fitness would have predicted, my HM usually about 4% slower, and my M about 8-10% slower. So not saying you will, but if you attempted to PR all 4 events then the marathon time prediction would be around a 3:44 M using what I've done in the past. So that leads me to believe that if you're well trained, then a sub-4 M is doable after the 3 other events.

As a mathematical representation, my Garmin VO2max predicted the following max performances going into Dopey 2018:

5k - 18:35-19:14
10k - 38:45-40:07
HM - 1:25:30-1:28:30
M - 2:58-3:04

I ran a 20:06, 39:54, 1:30:35, and 3:15:59. So the HM was about 2-6% off and M about 6-10% off from ideal single race.

Thanks. I wanted your perspective. As I mentioned, I am only shooting for a goal for the marathon. I plan to run the other races slow. 4 hours seems to be a pretty reasonable goal. I was curious how much to hedge based on the other races and park time and your analysis helped.

*Note* I had the same goal last year and finished at 4:24. I gave up trying to break 4 hours at the starting line because of the conditions (heat/humidity) and because I did not sleep the night before on top of running the half and going to the parks all day. So right from the start, I decided to run at my EZ pace, stop for pics, take walking breaks, etc.

 

[AggieDizzer]

Rocking along...I just took a week off from my training for a WDW visit (Animal Kingdom Lodge! Woot!!) but since I was getting around 25,000 steps per day I am considering it "cross training"! I am back on it this week. I signed up for a 50k this weekend as my long run and will probably add a couple more races between now and Dopey weekend for some extra speed work, like a half on Thanksgiving or something. After a long, hot Texas summer I am actually grateful for the colder weather we've been getting for the last couple weeks! Less than 2 months to go now, just got to throw in a couple more solid long runs, mix in a dash of speed work, book some fast passes, and stay healthy!!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

20 miles this weekend and kinda scared and excited at the same time. First b2b2b2b is on the 1st Dec ekkkkk, should we be getting up at race times for this??? The plan doesn't say.

I've never tried the waking up race day early for a long run. Not doing so has minimal effect if any on me.

Anyone who has done it previously what are you doing between races???

My usual strategy of taking it easy in the parks. In the case of my first Dopey this year, I also refused to push myself during the 3 races leading up to the marathon. I knew that saving my energy for my first marathon was the better plan.

My park touring post race consists of short lines, lots of shows that involve sitting down, long sitting breaks if I decide I need them, and above all else taking it easy topped off with going back to my room around 7 or 8 at the latest and going to bed early. Mentally I do better relaxing in the parks being distracted by the parks instead of sitting in my room and going stir crazy as the anticipation builds for the big race the next day.

After the last race, I stay in the parks until 9 or 10pm and celebrate. After Dopey this year, I was really sore on Monday and Tuesday, but hobbled my way around the parks anyways. Wednesday morning I woke up feeling totally back to normal.

On the surface it may seem counterintuitive, but continuing to move throughout the day helps the recovery process from each event and makes the feeling of soreness easier to deal with for the next day.

This is absolutely true. The one race where I didn't push myself to keep moving throughout the day resulted in me feeling lingering soreness from that race for another 10-12 days.

 

[bananabean]

Halloween party before a 10K is ok. Just don't sleep in.

This can be avoided by sleeping in a car.

 

[Nessy]

Just keep in mind that the Galloway plan was written for run/walking (and primarily at +2 min slower than current fitness Marathon Tempo pace). And those walk days, like this weekend's 8.5 miler also help keep the training load in order. Doing more (either at a faster pace or using continuous running) is going to increase the difficulty of the plan tremendously. So it's just something to keep in mind as you continue to progress into the really hard portion of the training plan.

Just changing the colour so you can see my writing in here! I'm a slow runner I'm lucky if I get 11-12 min miles. It took us 4 hours to do the 16 miles, so I don't think I will have to much trouble with doing the jeff plan. I'm defiantly not racing anything. I do appreciate the concern though.

I did get up early for my first Dopey and practice running at the same time of day. I found that it wasn't necessary to do that in years 2-5 of completing Dopey. Save the actual sleep deprivation for race day and just try and get good training in during these last 9 weeks.

Thank God, I was so going to hate getting up at 2.30am to do a run and then do a full day at work!

Wisconsin here. Having some nice winter running clothes is really helpful. Takes the edge off the cold and makes the running tolerable. Additionally, I've got a Noxgear Tracer360 for dark running (plus I added my own chest light for my own visibility). Just know that all those miles will pay off on race day and make the event easier then if you were to skip them.

Wow it's really cold there, it doesn't get to cold here, we might top the minuses once it gets dark. Which is sadly way to early these days. Thank you for the tips, I'll look into the Noxgear.


I've done it five times prior. I usually head back to the hotel, get cleaned up, and then we're out for a mostly normal park day. It's a family vacation for us and my wife expects 99% attendance at everything as running is not the sole reason we're there. I keep lots of water handy, wear a pair of compression calf sleeves (Zensah), and try to get to bed around 6:30-7:30pm most nights. On the surface it may seem counterintuitive, but continuing to move throughout the day helps the recovery process from each event and makes the feeling of soreness easier to deal with for the next day.

WOW!! 5 times that's amazing. I'm very thankful that we are going to Disney to run the races, yes it's a holiday but if we don't get out during the races we are not going to be very worried.

I don't - but I live in FL and have been getting up in the wee hours for months to run before the heat becomes impossible, so when it finally gets cool enough to sleep a little later, I'm all over it!


As I said, I'm in FL, so rarely do I have to contend with really cold weather, but I still totally get this: it's much the same with our infernal heat and torrential thunderstorms in summer. Honestly, all it takes is the occasional treadmill run to remind me that I'd MUCH prefer to be outside! The upside is at least you can add layers for warmth in the cold - we can only remove so many pieces of clothing to manage the heat without getting arrested down here, lol!


Not much. Dinner is at 5pm, bedtime 6-7pm each day. After the 5K and 10K, I take time to eat, shower, foam roll/stretch, and rest a bit before doing a ride or two in a park and meeting friends for lunch. I don't go anywhere after the half - I use that day to do some laundry, watch a movie on DVD, read, nap, eat, whatever my body says it wants. After the full, I've got a couple hours to eat, take a hot bath, and rest a bit before meeting friends for a celebratory dinner. I know a lot of people like to walk the parks quite a bit between races, but that really doesn't work for my body: I need lots of mental down time and time off my feet.

Thank you! That's kind of what I was thinking of doing, we've booked California Grill for our Marathon dinner (really excited).

I get the following for a 1:37:37 HM.

View attachment 451002

The Predicted Ranges are based off of two different data sets of marathon runners times and their corresponding HM time from prior. Only about 6% of runners hit the "aggressive", 10% hit "High end", 25% hit "low end" and 50% hit "average". Of course this is if it were a stand-alone event.

In my 5 attempts at the Dopey Challenge I always went for the Sextuple PR Challenge by attempting to PR all 4 events (and 2 associated challenges) consecutively. During this, my attempts from year to year were reasonably even depending on my fitness level coming into race day. My 5k/10k was usually matching what my fitness would have predicted, my HM usually about 4% slower, and my M about 8-10% slower. So not saying you will, but if you attempted to PR all 4 events then the marathon time prediction would be around a 3:44 M using what I've done in the past. So that leads me to believe that if you're well trained, then a sub-4 M is doable after the 3 other events.

As a mathematical representation, my Garmin VO2max predicted the following max performances going into Dopey 2018:

5k - 18:35-19:14
10k - 38:45-40:07
HM - 1:25:30-1:28:30
M - 2:58-3:04

I ran a 20:06, 39:54, 1:30:35, and 3:15:59. So the HM was about 2-6% off and M about 6-10% off from ideal single race.

I'm just putting it out there, but Jesus how could you afford to do these as a race and not "fun run" do you not do any of the character stops ect? If not what difference does it make running a Disney race compared to another marathon? I'm just really interested!

I've never tried the waking up race day early for a long run. Not doing so has minimal effect if any on me.
My usual strategy of taking it easy in the parks. In the case of my first Dopey this year, I also refused to push myself during the 3 races leading up to the marathon. I knew that saving my energy for my first marathon was the better plan.

My park touring post race consists of short lines, lots of shows that involve sitting down, long sitting breaks if I decide I need them, and above all else taking it easy topped off with going back to my room around 7 or 8 at the latest and going to bed early. Mentally I do better relaxing in the parks being distracted by the parks instead of sitting in my room and going stir crazy as the anticipation builds for the big race the next day.

After the last race, I stay in the parks until 9 or 10pm and celebrate. After Dopey this year, I was really sore on Monday and Tuesday, but hobbled my way around the parks anyways. Wednesday morning I woke up feeling totally back to normal.
This is absolutely true. The one race where I didn't push myself to keep moving throughout the day resulted in me feeling lingering soreness from that race for another 10-12 days.

Thank you, I'm really glad I just don't think I could face it but if I had to I would of done! I'm not racing any of them, I've done around 4 half's prior to Disney but it will be our first marathon so we're both really excited about that and well we have another 2 weeks in america after Disney so I don't want to kill myself otherwise those two weeks will be hell and they are running in New York/Death Valley so I really NEED to not go above and beyond lol!

I'm seeing that a lot of people go to bed early so I think that is something we will do. I'm hoping we will be back to normal on the Tuesday as we are hoping to do the snorkling thing

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I'm seeing that a lot of people go to bed early so I think that is something we will do. I'm hoping we will be back to normal on the Tuesday as we are hoping to do the snorkling thing

I have always gone to bed early before a race. Doesn't mean that I always fall asleep quickly, just that everything I've read indicates that even resting quietly in bed with the lights out even if you're not technically asleep does help. I have noticed that in the case of runDisney challenge weekends, I have little trouble falling asleep the night before the longest race when I have run a race that morning.

While each person's experience varies, I will say that I was still pretty sore the Monday and Tuesday after the marathon. I hobbled my way around the parks on both days, avoided the stairs whenever possible, and remembered with a smile what I had accomplished in earning the soreness. While it's very accurate to say that I hurt, I wasn't in pain if that makes sense. In my case, I felt normal come Wednesday.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Just changing the colour so you can see my writing in here! I'm a slow runner I'm lucky if I get 11-12 min miles. It took us 4 hours to do the 16 miles, so I don't think I will have to much trouble with doing the jeff plan. I'm defiantly not racing anything. I do appreciate the concern though.

Fair enough. Sounds like about a 15 min/mile for the 16 miles then (being in 4 hrs). So that would be akin to someone around 5:40 marathon shape if the 15 min/mile easy/LR pace is appropriate (~13 min/mile Marathon Tempo + 2 min). So a person who could run around a 35 min 5k or 1:14 10k in other race distances (or a 10 min/mile Magic Mile).



Jeff's site comes up with similar values:



http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-mile/

I'm just putting it out there, but Jesus how could you afford to do these as a race and not "fun run" do you not do any of the character stops ect? If not what difference does it make running a Disney race compared to another marathon? I'm just really interested!

Long answer, that'll put behind a spoiler as to not take up a huge amount of space.

Spoiler: Disney

No worries, I totally get that question. We all pay for the race to get the experience we're looking for out of it. So all sorts of goals come race day. Whether that be characters, alcohol, theme park rides, or PRs. I personally like to run fast and aim for PRs and that's what gives me enjoyment on race day. But if others have other goals that's cool too. But specifically why Disney? Two-fold.

1) My wife really really loves Disney. Her whole family is Disney crazed. I'm cool with Disney and enjoy the offerings, but I'm totally not on their level. So we went for our honeymoon in 2010 and I told my wife this wasn't going to be an every year type thing for us because I didn't get it. I raced my first local marathon in 2012 and said never again to that distance. My wife, not more than seconds after I crossed the finish line was talking my ear off about this "Goofy Challenge" where you'd race a HM+M. But that didn't move the needle for me (partially because I was in so much pain being so severely undertrained for the 2012 local marathon). But in early 2013 they announced the Dopey Challenge and my wife was super giddy about it. Now she thought she had the carrot to convince me to go back to Disney, and it worked. So it's a vacation that both of us could enjoy, me with running and her with Disney. We've since had a child and now she too is Disney-crazed so I don't see this ending well for me....

2) The second reason was because the Dopey Challenge was unique. Locally I couldn't get 4 consecutive races on 4 days put on by a major organization. So I reveled in the challenge of it. I don't drink alcohol anymore after college (not a judgement on others who do by any means). I get motion sickness on some of the major theme park rides. And other than getting pictures with my daughter and the characters, the characters personally don't do anything for me. Although with that being said, I do enjoy looking at them as I run by for a change of scenery. But I like to run and I like to challenge myself. So the Dopey Challenge presented me a multi-race opportunity like a high level athlete at a track event. Somewhere where I could try and push multiple days in a row. I found other like minded runners who also cumulatively totaled their times and we were racing with/against each other.

But this time around is the first time I'm running the marathon as the sole event in January. I've been chasing the sub-3hr marathon goal for years now. Disney presents a good opportunity for me because vacation for my wife/family, it's flat, the roads are in good condition (other than AK), it could be cold, the majority of peak training is done in cooler weather, it has a ton of long aid stations vs a local race, and since I'm one of the faster finishers it means more open roads and open aid stations with no worries about other runners around me. It presents an opportunity to actually be a very fast time trial type course. The race itself is about 200, so only about double what I'd pay locally. But I'd get no where near the same amenities locally that I do at Disney. And the vacation can obviously cost us, but like I said my wife was probably going to have us go to Disney anyways. As we speak she's trying to pull together a small 2-3 day trip in December. She's crazed I tell ya!

 

[PrincessV]

I'm seeing that a lot of people go to bed early so I think that is something we will do.

I have an earlier bedtime than most who do rD races, but I also have an earlier bedtime than most normally, so it's not a huge change for me - just a couple hours difference. I have an autoimmune disorder that gets fired up if I don't get adequate sleep, so sleep is an especially huge priority for me during race weekends.

 

[jennamfeo]

I'm seeing that a lot of people go to bed early so I think that is something we will do.

Don't read my Dopey Trip Report from this year then.......

 

[Nessy]

Fair enough. Sounds like about a 15 min/mile for the 16 miles then (being in 4 hrs). So that would be akin to someone around 5:40 marathon shape if the 15 min/mile easy/LR pace is appropriate (~13 min/mile Marathon Tempo + 2 min). So a person who could run around a 35 min 5k or 1:14 10k in other race distances (or a 10 min/mile Magic Mile).

View attachment 451161

Jeff's site comes up with similar values:

View attachment 451162

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/magic-mile/


Long answer, that'll put behind a spoiler as to not take up a huge amount of space.

Spoiler: Disney

No worries, I totally get that question. We all pay for the race to get the experience we're looking for out of it. So all sorts of goals come race day. Whether that be characters, alcohol, theme park rides, or PRs. I personally like to run fast and aim for PRs and that's what gives me enjoyment on race day. But if others have other goals that's cool too. But specifically why Disney? Two-fold.

1) My wife really really loves Disney. Her whole family is Disney crazed. I'm cool with Disney and enjoy the offerings, but I'm totally not on their level. So we went for our honeymoon in 2010 and I told my wife this wasn't going to be an every year type thing for us because I didn't get it. I raced my first local marathon in 2012 and said never again to that distance. My wife, not more than seconds after I crossed the finish line was talking my ear off about this "Goofy Challenge" where you'd race a HM+M. But that didn't move the needle for me (partially because I was in so much pain being so severely undertrained for the 2012 local marathon). But in early 2013 they announced the Dopey Challenge and my wife was super giddy about it. Now she thought she had the carrot to convince me to go back to Disney, and it worked. So it's a vacation that both of us could enjoy, me with running and her with Disney. We've since had a child and now she too is Disney-crazed so I don't see this ending well for me....

2) The second reason was because the Dopey Challenge was unique. Locally I couldn't get 4 consecutive races on 4 days put on by a major organization. So I reveled in the challenge of it. I don't drink alcohol anymore after college (not a judgement on others who do by any means). I get motion sickness on some of the major theme park rides. And other than getting pictures with my daughter and the characters, the characters personally don't do anything for me. Although with that being said, I do enjoy looking at them as I run by for a change of scenery. But I like to run and I like to challenge myself. So the Dopey Challenge presented me a multi-race opportunity like a high level athlete at a track event. Somewhere where I could try and push multiple days in a row. I found other like minded runners who also cumulatively totaled their times and we were racing with/against each other.

But this time around is the first time I'm running the marathon as the sole event in January. I've been chasing the sub-3hr marathon goal for years now. Disney presents a good opportunity for me because vacation for my wife/family, it's flat, the roads are in good condition (other than AK), it could be cold, the majority of peak training is done in cooler weather, it has a ton of long aid stations vs a local race, and since I'm one of the faster finishers it means more open roads and open aid stations with no worries about other runners around me. It presents an opportunity to actually be a very fast time trial type course. The race itself is about 200, so only about double what I'd pay locally. But I'd get no where near the same amenities locally that I do at Disney. And the vacation can obviously cost us, but like I said my wife was probably going to have us go to Disney anyways. As we speak she's trying to pull together a small 2-3 day trip in December. She's crazed I tell ya!

WOW now that is some maths there. We could of done the 16 miles quicker but we stopped to go shopping twice and the loo! Hoping that we will be faster so I don't need to worry about if I want any character stops.

I totally get the whole running while on holiday. It's cost us so much to go that I still cannot get my head around how people manage to do it every year, it's deffo a living in the UK thing and especially where I am as I need an extra flight just to get to the UK lol! Have you thought of doing an Ultra? I've got one booked for March next year. I'm straight edge always have been so get you with the drinking thing, excited to see if you get your sub 3hour as that is just pure amazing!!

Don't read my Dopey Trip Report from this year then.......

HAHA, I'll have a good look, just because I say I'm going to sleep early will probably not happen! This will be a one and done trip for us so I will want to get as much out of it as I can

 

[DopeyBadger]

WOW now that is some maths there. We could of done the 16 miles quicker but we stopped to go shopping twice and the loo! Hoping that we will be faster so I don't need to worry about if I want any character stops.

I like my math!

Have you thought of doing an Ultra? I've got one booked for March next year.

Haven't ventured into that area of running yet. I still feel like for me I've got unfinished business in the marathon. But there's a local road ultra that I'll probably do at some point when I'm feeling ready for it. At the earliest probably 2022.