Don't like new fastpass plus!

[Mikie]

Lots of truths here. Now the Disney CEOs do look at the bottomline and for Domestic Parks they had an excellent year with a very strong 4th Quarter that ended in September. I think for long term they will have to do some things at some of their parks if they plan on keeping those numbers that high, but this site can complain all it wants Disney will look at Income, Profits, Profit Margins etc. Judging especially by the 4th Quarter results the complaints on this site is not reflecting on the amount of cash flowing in.

Absolutely, but like so many corporate decisions, it may be a very short-sighted bump. Bonuses for current execs, short term return for investors, but when the dust settles, will this *maintain* high attendance and profit levels? Time will tell if the disgruntled veterans staying away has a negative impact eventually.

 

[wisblue]

This is a function of two things:

1. Disney marketing is promoting FP+ much more than it did legacy FP. Orlando Sentinel reports 75% of guests using FP, compared with less than half (my own guess is less than a third) using legacy FP.

2. Crowds are higher nowadays (the economy is better worldwide, so there are more domestic and international guests)

In other words, it's not the design of FP+ per se that causes FPs to be gone, but the fact that more guests are using it.

I completely agree that the pattern of standby lines is a result of a combination of FP+ and higher overall crowds. FP+ has put FPs in the hands of more guests and Disney's effective promotion of special events and promotions has put more people in the parks during times that used to be slower.

People like us who have often visited during Christmas and Easter weeks know that lines of over 30 minutes are not uncommon at those times for secondary attractions like POC, HM, IASW, SE, etc. So, as Disney has closed the gap between crowds at the busiest times and crowds at the least busy times, it shouldn't be surprising that lines at these attractions are growing too.

I am sure that FP+ is affecting standby lines too. That impact could come from several separate factors, such as offering FPs at attractions that didn't have them before, more guests using FPs, and a higher percentage of ride capacity being allocated to FPs,.

 

[wisblue]

Absolutely, but like so many corporate decisions, it may be a very short-sighted bump. Bonuses for current execs, short term return for investors, but when the dust settles, will this *maintain* high attendance and profit levels? Time will tell if the disgruntled veterans staying away has a negative impact eventually.

My prediction is that it will not prove to be shortsighted. I think that the disgruntled veterans who eliminate or cut down on their number of visits will be more than offset by first time and infrequent visitors who enjoy being guaranteed spots for a few of the attractions they were most interested in. Those guests (the vast majority of whom do not post on boards like these) may be more inclined to visit again than they would have been before.

And when Disney starts to roll out new areas and attractions at the parks in a few years, a lot of those disgruntled veterans will probably have a hard time resisting the urge to return to check them out.

Time will tell, but I do not believe that Disney management is as ignorant and shortsighted as a lot of posters on this board seem to think. They know a lot more about the wishes of the majority of their guests (not just the sliver that expresses opinions about Disney on social media) than any of us do.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

As noted, if your thing was to experience the same attractions, including but not necessarily limited to the most popular attractions, multiple times in one day using fastpass each time, you are not going to be happy with FP+ which has generally eliminated the possibility of doing so.

Those are the guests who won't return. Are there enough of them to guarantee a downturn in attendance? That's the big question and it won't be answered for awhile.

 

[Dis703]

3 fast passes is more than what I got on the original fast pass system. Especially if you want toy story. I like the new system, but I guess there's always going to be people that are not happy.

Same here. We completely missed rides like Soarin' and TSM on past trips because FP was already gone by the time we got to the ride to pull one. I love that now I at least know we will get to ride them and we don't have to interrupt our day to run across the park and grab FP.

 

[PEC]

As noted, if your thing was to experience the same attractions, including but not necessarily limited to the most popular attractions, multiple times in one day using fastpass each time, you are not going to be happy with FP+ which has generally eliminated the possibility of doing so.

Those are the guests who won't return. Are there enough of them to guarantee a downturn in attendance? That's the big question and it won't be answered for awhile.

Agree and my opinion is the the key long term will be rather they add enough attractions at EPCOT and HS to get rid of the tier system at those locations. I could be as wrong as anybody but I believe that once those two parks allow individuals to pick the 3 rides the guest really want to ride as their FP+ selections then a way bigger majority of guest will prefer the new system. Does not mean on an individual basis some people did not prefer to ride the same ride multiple times but I think they will find themselves in the minority and the bulk will prefer a guarantee of three rides they really want to do.

 

[my2minnies]

My prediction is that it will not prove to be shortsighted. I think that the disgruntled veterans who eliminate or cut down on their number of visits will be more than offset by first time and infrequent visitors who enjoy being guaranteed spots for a few of the attractions they were most interested in. Those guests (the vast majority of whom do not post on boards like these) may be more inclined to visit again than they would have been before.

And when Disney starts to roll out new areas and attractions at the parks in a few years, a lot of those disgruntled veterans will probably have a hard time resisting the urge to return to check them out.

Time will tell, but I do not believe that Disney management is as ignorant and shortsighted as a lot of posters on this board seem to think. They know a lot more about the wishes of the majority of their guests (not just the sliver that expresses opinions about Disney on social media) than any of us do.

I agree with this. There were so many people with the first time visitor buttons on when we were there last week. They looked happy and their use of the fp+ will ensure that they come back. It was funny--when we went to use our fp+ we almost always had a family with one of those buttons on. They would meander extremely slowly and sometimes stop in the line to look at everything. It would create such a backup of people behind them--it was kind of funny because they were clueless that they may be holding people up.

I can only speak for myself but I don't intend to go back anytime soon, but I am sure some of those first time visitors will be back. I know that the value of my trip and experience have decreased (while the price has increased) but they have nothing to compare it to. I won't say I will never go back because the lure of free dining may be hard to resist after a while. I just feel lucky that I could experience the parks and get so much out of them while I was able to.

 

[MrInfinity]

Exactly what I was thinking! I do not match your experience or touring style, so FP+ was fine for me. But I'd say it sounds like those who most dislike the new are those who had mastered commando touring under the old system at least to some degree. It seems like frustration levels are highest for someone who tries to re-create the style of touring they mastered before and match it under the new FP+. Ther will be ways to "master" the new system, but it will take change and time and will those veterans who loved the comfort of their experience and expertise be interested in sticking around long enough to develop it anew?

Exactly! I was one of those who had mastered the old FP system, I would take everyone's cards and get FPs for EE while they walked to the Safari, then meet up with them... or I'd trek across Epcot from Soarin to TT or whatever to grab more FP tickets. We got to ride a ton.

Now, having gone with FP+, even tho it's significantly different, I really like it so much better. I could never see going back to the old ticket style! The trip is just easier. I never have to split up, I can pick my FP+s from the comfort of my home two months in advance, and then I can keep changing them up until the day of.

I don't have to run or compete for tickets. I don't have to split up from the family. Or if we want to split up to get bigger kids on different things than younger kids, I can even plan for that in picking my FPs.

Now instead of being bound by the schedule that the FP- return window would impose upon you, I can PICK my return windows up front. There are so many benefits -- many of them cannot easily be quantified tho, so when you look at the overall picture you have to consider-- maybe you'll wait a little longer in a standby line, but you saved so much time by not having to run for FP- tickets in the first place. So to get a fair comparison, you'd have to count in the old system how much time you'd spend just acquiring tickets and waiting for your window to come. All that waste is eliminated now with FP+. You pick your return windows, and you show up. The rest of the time you're doing productive things with your family not gathering tickets.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Exactly what I was thinking! I do not match your experience or touring style, so FP+ was fine for me. But I'd say it sounds like those who most dislike the new are those who had mastered commando touring under the old system at least to some degree. It seems like frustration levels are highest for someone who tries to re-create the style of touring they mastered before and match it under the new FP+. Ther will be ways to "master" the new system, but it will take change and time and will those veterans who loved the comfort of their experience and expertise be interested in sticking around long enough to develop it anew?

I also wonder if people who had the legacy FP system mastered will ever be able to get as much out of the current FP+ system. As is, I have yet to figure out how to get as much done under the current system as I was able to accomplish with legacy. I also had it down so I never ran anywhere, didn't have a person designated to go across the park to pull a fast pass, and never actually crossed the park for the sole purpose of a fast pass. I was able to ride the rides I enjoyed multiple times with minimal wait. As such, I stayed in the parks usually from rope drop to closing. For our upcoming trip, we will be in the parks significantly less time because we just don't see it being a valuable use of our time. We will do what we wish to do, but since we won't get to do our favorites multiple times without waiting significantly longer than we once did, we won't be staying in the parks. This means we also will likely be spending less money in the parks.


Also, it seems to me that the majority of people I see who prefer the FP+ system to the legacy FP system say that they like it because they know that they have those three rides that they will have less wait for and so they are now able to sleep in and not rush to the park at rope drop or risk there not being any fast passes left. I can't imagine that was Disney's reasoning. I can't believe that a company that is out to make money intentionally designed a system to make it easier for people to spend less time in the parks. However, many are saying that they are and see it as a big bonus to FP+.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I see it as a bonus because I'm a frequent visitor and rope drop avoider. Sometimes three attractions are enough. and now they can be attractions that I could not previously get fastpasses for.

I've also used the kiosk after using 3 FPs and it worked OK. It was at MK and you won't get 7DMT but you can get most anything else, assuming it's not a very very busy time like Christmas week I suppose. I have gone to spend a few hours at MK and still done a lot of attractions. I dont' think that staying in one park the entire day is something Disney meant to encourage. I'm still on Disney property even though I am not inside the same park the entire day. If I go back to my resort and buy a drink, I'm still buying it on Disney property. If they should want to keep anyone in the parks, it's the offsiters, and many of them stick around because it's harder to leave and come back.

 

[Tonyz]

I was just thinking that we needed yet another thread complaining about how evil Fast Pass+ is. Thank you...

 

[DISNEYD14]

Exactly! I was one of those who had mastered the old FP system, I would take everyone's cards and get FPs for EE while they walked to the Safari, then meet up with them... or I'd trek across Epcot from Soarin to TT or whatever to grab more FP tickets. We got to ride a ton.

Now, having gone with FP+, even tho it's significantly different, I really like it so much better. I could never see going back to the old ticket style! The trip is just easier. I never have to split up, I can pick my FP+s from the comfort of my home two months in advance, and then I can keep changing them up until the day of.

I don't have to run or compete for tickets. I don't have to split up from the family. Or if we want to split up to get bigger kids on different things than younger kids, I can even plan for that in picking my FPs.

Now instead of being bound by the schedule that the FP- return window would impose upon you, I can PICK my return windows up front. There are so many benefits -- many of them cannot easily be quantified tho, so when you look at the overall picture you have to consider-- maybe you'll wait a little longer in a standby line, but you saved so much time by not having to run for FP- tickets in the first place. So to get a fair comparison, you'd have to count in the old system how much time you'd spend just acquiring tickets and waiting for your window to come. All that waste is eliminated now with FP+. You pick your return windows, and you show up. The rest of the time you're doing productive things with your family not gathering tickets.

**couldn't have said it better myself **
And the few instances I sent DH for FP in the past he'd get lost and would wreck our schedule anyway...lol

 

[MrInfinity]

I also wonder if people who had the legacy FP system mastered will ever be able to get as much out of the current FP+ system. As is, I have yet to figure out how to get as much done under the current system as I was able to accomplish with legacy. As such, I stayed in the parks usually from rope drop to closing. For our upcoming trip, we will be in the parks significantly less time because we just don't see it being a valuable use of our time.

You will probly not get the same number of rides ever again. That is history. Remember you got that many rides because the majority of guests did not use FP-. Now, they do use FP+. So the same FP slots are being consumed by a much larger base, and there is no loophole to get yourself more than the average guest. Before, being savvy, you could get more than the average guest. Now, you cant. So you used to get more than everyone else. That made Disney good for you? And now you get the same. That doesn't mean you're being cheated, it just means you're now equal to everyone instead of riding way more than them.

Also, it seems to me that the majority of people I see who prefer the FP+ system to the legacy FP system say that they like it because they know that they have those three rides that they will have less wait for and so they are now able to sleep in and not rush to the park at rope drop or risk there not being any fast passes left. I can't imagine that was Disney's reasoning. I can't believe that a company that is out to make money intentionally designed a system to make it easier for people to spend less time in the parks. However, many are saying that they are and see it as a big bonus to FP+.

Not me. I don't sleep in, I utilize rope drop like I used to. I try to make the best of FP+, and I do about as well as on FP-, figuring all the tangential benefits.

It is the case that you spending less time in the parks DOES make them more profitable. It's hard to grasp but true. Disney's most profitable customer is the on-site customer who spends only a part of their day in the park, then part of their day out of the park. It comes down to the rides. They want the # of ridings of their rides to be split among the largest number of guests possible, thereby selling the most hotel rooms possible. That is -- they want MORE guests, but for them to be there LESS time. Because they all pay the same ticket price. That is why things like Downtown Disney exist. Mini-Golf. Disney Quest. You name it. These are all designed to give people things to do that are dirt cheap for Disney to run, but get people out of the parks so they can get other guests into the parks. Turnstyle. Move in, move out, make room. If you rode a lot under FP-, you cost Disney more in terms of who else they weren't getting into the park on those rides.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Exactly! I was one of those who had mastered the old FP system, I would take everyone's cards and get FPs for EE while they walked to the Safari, then meet up with them... or I'd trek across Epcot from Soarin to TT or whatever to grab more FP tickets. We got to ride a ton.

Now, having gone with FP+, even tho it's significantly different, I really like it so much better. I could never see going back to the old ticket style! The trip is just easier. I never have to split up, I can pick my FP+s from the comfort of my home two months in advance, and then I can keep changing them up until the day of.

I don't have to run or compete for tickets. I don't have to split up from the family. Or if we want to split up to get bigger kids on different things than younger kids, I can even plan for that in picking my FPs.

Now instead of being bound by the schedule that the FP- return window would impose upon you, I can PICK my return windows up front. There are so many benefits -- many of them cannot easily be quantified tho, so when you look at the overall picture you have to consider-- maybe you'll wait a little longer in a standby line, but you saved so much time by not having to run for FP- tickets in the first place. So to get a fair comparison, you'd have to count in the old system how much time you'd spend just acquiring tickets and waiting for your window to come. All that waste is eliminated now with FP+. You pick your return windows, and you show up. The rest of the time you're doing productive things with your family not gathering tickets.

To each their own, but I don't really consider that mastering the system. Many of us on here have talked about how we got 8 or 9 fast passes in a day without having anyone split up from our party, running anywhere, or crossing the park simply to obtain a fast pass. If we were going to get a fast pass for Space Mountain, for example, we would go pull one and then ride Carousel of Progress, Peoplemover, watch Laugh Floor, or even go do Barnstormer via the back way. We didn't really waste time and actually got a lot more done with legacy fast pass than we have been able to do with FP+. YMMV.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

You will probly not get the same number of rides ever again. That is history. Remember you got that many rides because the majority of guests did not use FP-. Now, they do use FP+. So the same FP slots are being consumed by a much larger base, and there is no loophole to get yourself more than the average guest. Before, being savvy, you could get more than the average guest. Now, you cant. So you used to get more than everyone else. That made Disney good for you? And now you get the same. That doesn't mean you're being cheated, it just means you're now equal to everyone instead of riding way more than them.



Not me. I don't sleep in, I utilize rope drop like I used to. I try to make the best of FP+, and I do about as well as on FP-, figuring all the tangential benefits.

It is the case that you spending less time in the parks DOES make them more profitable. It's hard to grasp but true. Disney's most profitable customer is the on-site customer who spends only a part of their day in the park, then part of their day out of the park. It comes down to the rides. They want the # of ridings of their rides to be split among the largest number of guests possible, thereby selling the most hotel rooms possible. That is -- they want MORE guests, but for them to be there LESS time. Because they all pay the same ticket price. That is why things like Downtown Disney exist. Mini-Golf. Disney Quest. You name it. These are all designed to give people things to do that are dirt cheap for Disney to run, but get people out of the parks so they can get other guests into the parks. Turnstyle. Move in, move out, make room. If you rode a lot under FP-, you cost Disney more in terms of who else they weren't getting into the park on those rides.

But that's not the case with my family. When we would be in the parks all day, we bought merchandise and food. Now, we will still buy food but it will be there at the resort. And we won't be buying the snacks that we used to in the parks because we won't be there for all of them. And rather than shopping for merchandise, we will be swimming in the pool or taking naps - those don't cost us a dime. We are going to be spending less this trip from all of our calculations.

 

[kay1864]

I can't believe that a company that is out to make money intentionally designed a system to make it easier for people to spend less time in the parks.

That was my initial thought too when FP+ was first being rolled out.

However, consider the "old" experience of the majority of WDW guests (ie non-DISers):

- Show up 2 hours after rope drop
- Experience long standby times at rides and restaurants
- Get frustrated at the long lines and therefore
(a) choose to go to less-crowded parks like Sea World and/or
(b) be less inclined to visit WDW next year

The "new" experience using FP+:

- Show up 2 hours after rope drop
- Experience shorter wait times at 3-5 major rides (assuming you used MDE and not a kiosk)
- Experience long standby times at the other rides, but it's not 75-100 minutes like you had last year at TSM or Peter Pan or Soarin
- You might have made some ADRs (because you're using MDE), if so, you have shorter restaurant wait times than last year
- Can't choose to go to less-crowded non-WDW parks because you have FP+ for the rest of your vacation (ie WDW has nudged you into staying at their parks)
- You're more inclined to visit WDW next year

 

[SCDisneyfanatic]

Come on people...it all comes down to personal preference...and I'd venture to say for every person on this board that complains they can't ride their favorite ride 5 times every day, there are jsut as many or more people very satisfied that they don't need to worry about riding once later in the day because the "5 time a day rider" can't monopolize the fast passes.

To each their own! We like WDW because we can enjoy the atmosphere, take in shows and attractions, relax, eat great food, and spend quality time together. Being able to ensure main attractions ahead of time and not worry about going like a bat at of h@!! each morning to maximize FP- or risk not doing a major ride without an hour wait makes things even more enjoyable!

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Now, we will still buy food but it will be there at the resort.

A Disney resort?

That's still fine with them.

and if it's a Disney resort, you paid the Disney resort premium to be at that resort, take a nap in that bed and use that pool. Unless you bought DVC and then you just prepaid years of Disney resort stays.

 

[MrInfinity]

But that's not the case with my family. When we would be in the parks all day, we bought merchandise and food. Now, we will still buy food but it will be there at the resort. And we won't be buying the snacks that we used to in the parks because we won't be there for all of them. And rather than shopping for merchandise, we will be swimming in the pool or taking naps - those don't cost us a dime. We are going to be spending less this trip from all of our calculations.

So?

You don't buy a snack. Big deal. You'll still buy about the same number of souvenirs on the trip as a whole. Maybe less? But they fit another person in instead, sold another hotel room, and another day of admission to someone else, and they buy souvenirs that make up what you don't. Plus you still paid for the room. Disney makes way more this way with two guests going half the time instead of one guest going all day.

 

[Brian Noble]

As noted, if your thing was to experience the same attractions, including but not necessarily limited to the most popular attractions, multiple times in one day using fastpass each time, you are not going to be happy with FP+ which has generally eliminated the possibility of doing so.

Those are the guests who won't return. Are there enough of them to guarantee a downturn in attendance? That's the big question and it won't be answered for awhile.

That is the big question. But, there is one group of people who might actually have some of the data needed to answer it: Disney. They survey guests incessantly, and have both before FP+ was rolled out, and after. They probably have a pretty good idea of the "balance" between disgruntled power-users and happier but less-experienced guests.