Don't know how to help DS8... sorry long

[RF536]

I am very concerned about DS8, he just seems to be having such a hard time lately, and seems to be getting depressed. He says things like "I'm such a loser", and "Nobody loves me!", and "I'm so stupid." It breaks my heart to hear him talk this way because, I don't know why he would feel like this or even think these things. I do have an appointment next Thurs. for DH and myself to meet with his pedi. without DS8 present so we can discuss our concerns without him feeling like we are attacking him, because we also have some other concerns.
DS8 was diagnoised about 2 years ago with ADHD, since that time he has taken Concerta which was working quite well until earlier this year when he seemed to have built up a tolerance to it so his doctor switched him to Vyvanse. Even when his meds. are working well he has always had little quirks about him that made him difficult/different. He is scared to death of bees, if he even thinks there is a bee/wasp near him he will run away in terror screaming. It is so bad that it is hard to get him to go outside in the summer because he thinks all flying insects are bees. My MIL did discover late last summer that she was able to convince him that the wrist bands that are made to repell insects also work on bees and wasp, so he is happier as long as he has one of those on.

He has also always been obsessed with order even before he could talk, which he didn't do until he was over 2 years old, he made his wants known. When we would go to my parents for dinner everyone had an assigned seat and you had better sit there or he was not happy until you did. My mom would also allow the kids to play with some of her holiday decorations, which was fine, but he always had to put them back they way they were. Now it is more if things don't progress the way he thinks they should he gets upset, or if the teacher changes the way they do something he gets very frustrated.

He also always has some sort of obsession, while it has changed as he has gotten older it is always there. His current obsession is karate, he walks around repeating part of a form over and over again.

For him there is also no grey area in rules, if the teacher tells the class if you don't get your centers done this week because you were goofing around, then I will send them home as homework, then he rushes through the centers because he doesn't want homework. He doesn't understand that the teacher meant as long as she saw him working hard all week she wouldn't give him homework.

He also doesn't seem to have any friends. He gets along well with the kids in his class and the boys in his cub scout den, but he never gets invited over to anyone's house and never asks if anyone can come over to play. He seems much more comfortable around adults then kids, I don't know if he just has an easier time with adults because he doesn't have to try and figure them out or what.

Sorry this is so long, but I just don't know what to do for him and I hate seeing him struggle so much.

 

[pudge the fish]

I have no advice as this is not my area of smart
but I am good at

I am sure the people who know lots will be along to give you words of wisdom..they are realy helpful and smart about these things

I do know that in my reality things that cause me issues or anxiety makes no sense to others.

Others may think it's silly or strange that I have to check the freezer door so many times to make sure it is shut.. or folding candy wrappers
so your son being afraid of bees and wasps makes perfect sense to him.
I don't like them myself much either

 

[Brightsy]

Hmmm.. First of all
Now... It sounds like your an awsome parent and are taking steps to help your child, that's always wonderful to see.
Without trying to scare you or sound alarmist but I'd have your child evaluated to see if he's on the Spectrum. While they do that, if it's anything like when my kids were looked at, they should also evaluate for anxiety issues, depression and OCD.
I have an ADHD DS almost 10 who also exhibits some Asperger traits, my younger DS 7 is autistic (high functioning.)
My older DS is terrified of bees too! Or any flying bug, so the bracelet thing sounds awesome. He also has had issues w/ shades of grey in life, but he's getting better about it. My son doesn't have any of the OCD issues, but there was a time when we worried about it, since we found the right meds for him that trait seemed to mellow. My son has some anxiety issues and also says the occasional "No one likes me" line. It's hard to deal with. Usually I sit him down and talk to him about all the wonderful things I love about him. That seems to help my son out, but I know it won't work on all kids. Again...

Stay strong and fight for what you think is best for your DS.

 

[mechurchlady]

Hmmm.. First of all
Now... It sounds like your an awsome parent and are taking steps to help your child, that's always wonderful to see.
Without trying to scare you or sound alarmist but I'd have your child evaluated to see if he's on the Spectrum. While they do that, if it's anything like when my kids were looked at, they should also evaluate for anxiety issues, depression and OCD.
I have an ADHD DS almost 10 who also exhibits some Asperger traits, my younger DS 7 is autistic (high functioning.)
My older DS is terrified of bees too! Or any flying bug, so the bracelet thing sounds awesome. He also has had issues w/ shades of grey in life, but he's getting better about it. My son doesn't have any of the OCD issues, but there was a time when we worried about it, since we found the right meds for him that trait seemed to mellow. My son has some anxiety issues and also says the occasional "No one likes me" line. It's hard to deal with. Usually I sit him down and talk to him about all the wonderful things I love about him. That seems to help my son out, but I know it won't work on all kids. Again...

Stay strong and fight for what you think is best for your DS.

I aggree with her on the autism.aspergers. There are a lot of undiagnosed neurovariants out there because they have quirks that family lives with and a pattern does not show up. He is definitely a neurovariant which means a person whose brain is wired differently but that is not bad usually unless you run into neurotypical type of bullies. Bookworm will be by later and can give you more insight.

You are a great mother and keep up the good work.
hugs
Laurie

 

[SmallWorld71]

I agree with PP's. I would continue to seek further evaluation. While I am not saying that he does/ does not have ADHD, both my DS13 and DNiece15 do and have never exhibited any of the symptoms that you are concerned about in your son. My nephew, on the other hand has. He is 10 and has Sensory Integration Dysfunction along with a very high anxiety level. DS10 also had some OCD struggles when he was younger - would only sit in certain chair at preschool etc... We were able to learn some strategies to help him. I wish you the best.

 

[bookwormde]

Welcome,

Some of what you describe may be spectrum characteristics, this may or may not mean that he would qualify for a formal Aspersers diagnosis but it sound like a formal evaluation may be warranted. If he has not had an auditory processing evaluation as part of the ADHD evaluation (which should always be done before an ADHD diagnosis is given, especially if there are no clinical levels of hyperactivity) this would be an important first step and if it comes back showing a significant deficit would indicate that the original ADHD diagnosis may have not been correct These children often get misdiagnosed as ADHD since to a poorly trained clinician many of the EF issues “mimic” ADHD indicators, since they have a substantially different “wiring” (which may include executive function differences, differential in innate social skills, sensory variances and a number of other variations.) It is possible to have both but clinical levels of hyperactivity not caused by sensory issues and the associated anxiety are the real determining factor.

Depression is one of the co-morbid manifestations (actually on of the less “damaging”), which occur when spectrum children are misdiagnosed with ADHD and are given inappropriate therapies.

It does not sound like your child is in “crisis” so you may want to educate yourself about the potential before picking a direction. I always suggest reading Tony Atwood “The Complete Guide to Aspergers” C2007 available on Amazon for about $25, he is the leading clinician in this area. Even if he only has a few characteristics it will be very helpful for supporting your child.

If you do decide on an evaluation make sure a major children’s hospital that has an experience “team” or a clinical group who is highly experience and does significant yealy continuing eduacation in this area.

The good news is that if these are Aspergers characteristics that there are many supports and therapies to help and once in place the co-morbid manifestations (potentially depression in this case) dissipate rapidly.

A lot to take in I know but an 8-hour read of the above book may make all the difference in your child’s life.

bookwormde

 

[RF536]

Thank-you for the information, I am begining to think he may have been misdiagnosised with ADHD. The diagnosis was made after a few appointments with a therapist and then a few more with a psycologist.

Bookwormde-I will look into the book you sugguested, I am open to anything that might help at this point, I hate seeing him so fustrated. He does well in school, but is having problems this year with bullies. Luckily we are taking karate as a family and that is helping him to control some of his frustration.

 

[quasar4legs]

So sorry that things are tough for your little fellow at the moment, it is so hard to watch our children struggle.

You may find it interesting to have a look at Tony Attwood's website until you can get your hands on the book.
www.tonyattwood.com.au

Sending you some Big Koala cuddles from 'down under'.

Trish

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

That's a tough one. I know a kid who would completely lose it if anything did not go exactly as he thought it should during class. Very similar to what you are describing. It lead to a lot of meltdowns/bad behaviors. One thing that was done that seemed to help was starting a school to home notebook. Every day the teachers would write in it how he did and put a smiley face, neutral face, or frowny face. They taught the kid what kind of behaviors would earn him a smiley face and it really helped. It didn't stop it by any means, but I believe they did see a decrease in the behaviors.

We had a professional development on a topic called conscious discipline. One of the things they showed us were cans of brains in children who were neurotypical and others who had ADHD, autism, etc. They also told us about what parts of the brain a lot of these skills come from. What you are describing is a lack of mental flexibility. One thing they suggested for kids with those issues is to get them engaged in activities that cross the midline. For example, doing opposite toe touches. The left side of your brain controls the right side of your body and vice versa. Whenever you do an action like that that requires both sides the signals have to cross the corpus colossum- brain flexibility.

Anything with alternating hands, etc. You can also try social stories with him to show him how he should respond in certain situations. For example: If the teacher does something different and he gets upset, you could teach him to ask for a drink (make sure the teacher is in on it) so he can calm down, take a deep breath, etc.

At the autism conference I attended one social story that was shared with us really stood out. The refrain from it was, "If I make a mistake, it's okay. I take a deep breath and I walk away." This was used with a kid who totally melted down if he made any kind of mistake. The social story would cover various situations and then use the refrain. You could change it (again with teacher's blessing so he doesn't get in trouble) to "If I get upset, that's okay. I take a deep breath and I walk away." Find a spot he can go to to calm down.

If your son is receiving special ed services, there should be a place on the IEP to list parent concerns. I would bring this up and see if they can start implementing a social skills curiculum with him or to add some behavior goals so that he is getting the behavioral support he needs from his teachers.

 

[RF536]

At this time the only service that DS is recieving is speech therapy once a week, other than that he does great in school academically, it is socially where he struggles. After following the link that quasar4legs provided and doing some research on my own, I do see a lot of Asperger characteristics in DS. As much as the possibility of that diagnosis scares me, it would also be a relief, because at least if I had a diagnosis I could get him the help he needs to make his life better. At this point any diagnosis would be a blessing because it can only help us, it won't change who he is.

 

[bookwormde]

Do not let the Aspergers diagnosis scare you, it just provides a guide as to help your child with his challenges and great gifts that go along with “being aspergers” or if not formally meeting the clinical definition “being and aspie”.

This is not to say that it will not be a lot of work since highly qualified clinicians are hard to find and educational supports (particularly in the areas of non academic curriculum) often have to be “fought for”.

Just remember that if your child is aspergers that he has amazing potential to “make the world a better place”

Bullying is an issue that our children face and making sure your school has the required bullying prevention programs in place and is serious about their implementation, is important. As a read in this area I will recommend after you have “digested “ Attwood that you read “Perfect Targets” by Rebekah Heinrichs

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

While the school system cannot diagnose, they can do a screening. You have to ask very specifically for a screening. You cannot say "I'd like him tested for Aspergers" because they will tell you they can't do that. They are very particular about the wording.

If their screening finds that he is borderline or in-range, they can add to his IEP. At least you already have an IEP. It's easier to add to it than to start from scratch, although at this point they'll probably want to bump to next school year.

My DS came back borderline on the screening and got Social Skills and some test accomodations. Perhaps not ideal, but it will work for now while we await a proper evaluation this summer.

 

[RF536]

Unfortunately we are already having to deal with bullying, he is handling it correctly, but it is taking it's toll on him. He hasn't fought back yet, which shows a lot of restraint on his part, because he knows karate. The one time a kid did hit him on the playground he spun around a got in a basic stance and asked the kid if he wanted to try that again, the kid walked away. The 1st time he was hit on the head was on the bus and he told the bus driver, who didn't do anything, so DH sent a letter to the transportation director, the school principal and the superindentant. The next day the transportation director had a meeting with the kids on the bus and made it clear that the behavior would not be tolerated, the principal also talked to DS and told him if he ever had a another problem to please come and see her and she would help. The other problems have happened in the class room or on the playground and for the most part are more mental bullying then physical. The problem with him is instead of telling the teacher what is happening, is just tells her that they are idiots, so unless she sees it happening she doesn't know what is going on.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Unfortunately we are already having to deal with bullying, he is handling it correctly, but it is taking it's toll on him. He hasn't fought back yet, which shows a lot of restraint on his part, because he knows karate. The one time a kid did hit him on the playground he spun around a got in a basic stance and asked the kid if he wanted to try that again, the kid walked away. The 1st time he was hit on the head was on the bus and he told the bus driver, who didn't do anything, so DH sent a letter to the transportation director, the school principal and the superindentant. The next day the transportation director had a meeting with the kids on the bus and made it clear that the behavior would not be tolerated, the principal also talked to DS and told him if he ever had a another problem to please come and see her and she would help. The other problems have happened in the class room or on the playground and for the most part are more mental bullying then physical. The problem with him is instead of telling the teacher what is happening, is just tells her that they are idiots, so unless she sees it happening she doesn't know what is going on.

It sounds like the school at least is on top of the bullying situation. Hopefully things will get better.

 

[RF536]

We had a very rough day yesterday, DS8 kicked DS6 in the face with a karate kick. At the time it happened DS6 really hadn't done anything to provoke him, they had been coloring and DS8 wanted the picture he colored so DS6 ripped it out for him. Apparently the picture was torn or something and DS8 got upset and kick him in the face. So I ended up spending 3 hours in the ER with DS6 to make sure there was no damage to his eye, because the kick was right to his eye.

This is out of charater for DS8, while they do fight like all siblings he has never been this aggressive with his brother before, and it has been getting worse for the past couple of weeks. I think part of it is the frustration he is feeling coming out on the one person he knows won't hurt him back. Hopefully, his doctor can get up pointed in the right direction and there isn't a long wait to get him some help.

 

[mechurchlady]

We had a very rough day yesterday, DS8 kicked DS6 in the face with a karate kick. At the time it happened DS6 really hadn't done anything to provoke him, they had been coloring and DS8 wanted the picture he colored so DS6 ripped it out for him. Apparently the picture was torn or something and DS8 got upset and kick him in the face. So I ended up spending 3 hours in the ER with DS6 to make sure there was no damage to his eye, because the kick was right to his eye.

This is out of charater for DS8, while they do fight like all siblings he has never been this aggressive with his brother before, and it has been getting worse for the past couple of weeks. I think part of it is the frustration he is feeling coming out on the one person he knows won't hurt him back. Hopefully, his doctor can get up pointed in the right direction and there isn't a long wait to get him some help.

You need to work on what is triggering these escalating responses. As it is getting worse each time. It could be a build up of the NOT FAIR BUG or stress or other societal factors.

I do hurt the ones I love so much and my dear friend C. from F. sitte can tell you all the ways I have hurt her but she will never tell you as she is a dear friend who rolls with my punches. She is my rock who has hurt me so many times by telling me the truth and I would hate to loose her as she is such a special person to so many people. I hope you can get things straightened ot and do talk to the little brother so he understands what is happening and that his brother has something bugging him and that little brother is not at fault. The little one will need you to counsel him and console him and explain things to him.

 

[bookwormde]

It is never easy when things like this happen. It might be worth doing a formal “social autopsy” and practice alternate skills.

One good thing is that the deterioration is happening at a “good time of year” since by the time you get an appointment and hopefully evaluation scheduled it will be summer and you will be able to remove the meds for a significant period of time and see if that helps in general and will give you a much more accurate evaluation.

bookwormde

 

[SmallWorld71]

We had a very rough day yesterday, DS8 kicked DS6 in the face with a karate kick. At the time it happened DS6 really hadn't done anything to provoke him, they had been coloring and DS8 wanted the picture he colored so DS6 ripped it out for him. Apparently the picture was torn or something and DS8 got upset and kick him in the face. So I ended up spending 3 hours in the ER with DS6 to make sure there was no damage to his eye, because the kick was right to his eye.

This is out of charater for DS8, while they do fight like all siblings he has never been this aggressive with his brother before, and it has been getting worse for the past couple of weeks. I think part of it is the frustration he is feeling coming out on the one person he knows won't hurt him back. Hopefully, his doctor can get up pointed in the right direction and there isn't a long wait to get him some help.

No real advice, just wanted to offer some sympathy. We had a problem a couple of years ago with DS(then 8) being mean to his 4 year old sister. Turns out that a bully had just been moved from one classroom into his. As you said, he was taking it out on someone who wouldn't hurt him back (and still love him and look up to him.)