Don't Buy DVC--Rent

[NMW]

I know I've only owned DVC since 2004, but I don't understand renting points at all. If for some reason (schedule, work, whatever) you can't take a vacation that year, why would you not just bank the points for next year? That way you could take 2 trips or stay longer, or get a bigger villa and take friends with you.
I just can't imagine buying points and not using them or banking them? I guess I'm not very trusting either. I would not feel comfortable renting my points or renting points from another member. That's probably why I wont buy anything from ebay either.

That's also why I don't agree with the OP suggestion to just rent points instead of buying if you want to stay at DVC. I'd much rather have my own points for my own vacation. Also, DVC will be a savings for us. We previously did about 9 days in a Deluxe resort (BC, BWI, POLY) every year w/UPH passes and the meal plan (gold or silver). We looked at DVC as a one time cost (for the resort part anyway). Now all we have to buy are PAP's, airfare, food/spending money. Plus, we plan to get the DDE card because we still plan to eat out every meal and that will save us some money too. I think DVC is perfect for our family and that's why we bought it. We own 230 BWV points and plan to buy about 120-150 more. We just can't decide if we should do another resale or get on Disney's list. BTW, in reference to the OP comment about people who can not afford it. We can pay for another resale, we do not need Disney financing, we just think it may be easier to get the same UY buying through Disney. I don't think you should assume all new DVC members "can't afford" it and shouldn't buy. That's unfair. I didn't even know you COULD rent points until I read this board. I bet a lot of other members don't know either.

 

[erikthewise]

While I think that renting instead of buying would be a miserable way to go, there may be some truth to the claim that renting is somewhat cheaper than buying. When I bought at $75 I did a spreadsheet comparison between buying and renting the same number of points each year at $10 each.

At the time, buying came out ahead under the assumptions I made. But now at $95/pt, with interest rates rising and annual fees rising somewhat faster than previously, renting may come out ahead, even at $10/pt. Of course there are many other considerations to buying, but those intending to rent would probably not save money by buying instead.

 

[TCPluto]

We rented points recently, $11 per point. One familey saved 140% over what Disney was going to charge.

It seems that at even $12-14 per point is would still be a substantial savings over what Disney would sell the room to them. $10 per point is an incredible bargain for the renter, and undervalued.

 

[ricapito]

All members need to make sure they are renting their points for $10 or more per point unless circumstances require a "fire sale".

The Disney guides say people who rent their points are doing Disney a huge favor. They are bringing in somebody to stay at the vacation club and Disney doesn't have any "marketing dollars" tied in to these people and majority of them choose to become owners. Disney loves the fact that people rent their points.

I know people have discussed having "Members Only Resorts", however, that would not be in Disney's best interest.

I actually think points should rent for average of $12 per point vs. the standard $10 as the annual dues continue to rise.

In Antitrust law we call this illegal price fixing if the right circumstances come together.

 

[CRobin]

I know I've only owned DVC since 2004, but I don't understand renting points at all. If for some reason (schedule, work, whatever) you can't take a vacation that year, why would you not just bank the points for next year? That way you could take 2 trips or stay longer, or get a bigger villa and take friends with you.
I just can't imagine buying points and not using them or banking them? I guess I'm not very trusting either. I would not feel comfortable renting my points or renting points from another member.

Banking points versus renting them is always an option. Of course, if you bank them, you ultimately have to use them. There are reasons to rent them out if you have the time. DW and I are taking our ILs on their very first cruise. I could use 252 points plus pay a $95 transfer fee to get them a Cat 5 stateroom. Instead, I rented 138 points and paid $1380 cash for the same room.

Yes, I have to collect, worry to a small degree about bounced checks and the like. But I wasn't planning on having a need for those points next year so renting was something I considered, and am so far very happy with.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

I know I've only owned DVC since 2004, but I don't understand renting points at all. If for some reason (schedule, work, whatever) you can't take a vacation that year, why would you not just bank the points for next year? That way you could take 2 trips or stay longer, or get a bigger villa and take friends with you.

I rented out some of our points so that we can take a cruise and pay cash for it. We are still taking a Disney vacation and my points are paying for it. That is the best reason IMHO to rent points. They go much furhter by renting than they do by turning them over to Dinsey.

HBC

 

[LIFERBABE]

I honestly dont see how $10 per point will last much longer especially not for those renting out at 11 months. The resort prices are rising FAST!! Discounts are slim to none, and even US Resorts and S/D have substantially increased their rates and fees.

That's why there is so much activity on the RT boards. People are getting tired of waiting on measly codes.

Yesterday I was quoted $215 plus tax for a BCV studio for June and thats the discounted rate. $10 ppt. puts you in a studio for $120 tax included. I agree that even if you rented your points for $12-$15 that is still an incredible rate for the renter.

I am planning a Spring trip to Vegas and the resorts have what they call a NONREFUNDABLE rate. You pay for your room upfront (based on avail), you get a discounted rate and if you cancel you get a credit to use later. Sounds alot like point rental terms to me and although cheaper than posted rates, they are still not giving these rooms away. Im not saying that the risk should not be compensated, but why isnt $10 per point considered collusion or price fixing?

 

[tjkraz]

I honestly dont see how $10 per point will last much longer especially not for those renting out at 11 months. The resort prices are rising FAST!! Discounts are slim to none, and even US Resorts and S/D have substantially increased their rates and fees.

<snip>

Im not saying that the risk should not be compensated, but why isnt $10 per point considered collusion or price fixing?

I'm not an attorney, but my guess is that $10 can't be considered price fixing simply because no group has come together to artificially create that price point. It's not as if points rented for $9 per point last year, and those who controlled the marketplace agreed collectively to raise their price to $10.

You still see points rented for various fees ranging from $8 to 12 per point, but $10 is definitely the de facto standard.

As I see it, the problem is we have a free market system where everyone basically has the same product to offer. Yes, there are probably SOME folks who understand the system better and are willing to pay more than $10 per point to book 11 months out. But I believe the vast majority really don't understand the intricacies of DVC points, nor are they willing to book that far in advance.

We rented points a couple of times and foolishly inquired about Standard View rooms 3-4 months before our check-in date. When told that they weren't available, we happily took the OKW rooms.

I think there are owners renting points who are smart enough to get more than $10 per point, and there are consumers willing to pay that price. But with all of the owners trying to rent points these days (supply and demand), it's hard to say when that rental price might increase across the board.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I never have any points lying around to rent out. But any trustworthy member who wants to unload points at $5 or $6 feel free to let me know.

 

[NMW]

I rented out some of our points so that we can take a cruise and pay cash for it. We are still taking a Disney vacation and my points are paying for it. That is the best reason IMHO to rent points. They go much furhter by renting than they do by turning them over to Dinsey.

HBC

I see your point about the cruise thing. I don't think DVC gives it's members a very good deal using points for the cruises. Unless they change the # of poionts needed, I doubt we will ever go on a Disney cruise. We are a family of 5 and would need a cat 4 cabin. That's a lot of points! In general, I don't think cruises are very friendly to families with more than 2 children. The only people we know who cruise regularly are families with 2 kids! I can see how it would be worth it to rent the points and then put that cash towards the cruise for DVC members.

 

[ricapito]

Most price fixing elements I recall off the cuff, without opening books...

A qualifying relevant market,
A group of buyers/sellers with some sort of market power,
An expressed or implied agreement!!!,
To peg, fix, manage prices or restrict output...

Not a lawyer....yet, so this isn't legal advice! My comment was simply folks getting together here or anywhere and agreeing to charge $10 or whatever might be a bad idea as an early poster announced. A group can however, in a rational self-interested way, all try and get the same price, so long as its independent action.

BR

 

[pumpkinboy]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think this thread belongs on the DVC Community Board?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Most price fixing elements I recall off the cuff, without opening books...

A qualifying relevant market,
A group of buyers/sellers with some sort of market power,
An expressed or implied agreement!!!,
To peg, fix, manage prices or restrict output...

Not a lawyer....yet, so this isn't legal advice! My comment was simply folks getting together here or anywhere and agreeing to charge $10 or whatever might be a bad idea as an early poster announced. A group can however, in a rational self-interested way, all try and get the same price, so long as its independent action.

BR

this is just pure crazy talk. theres no set price. theres over 80,000 memebers who have the right to rent their points for whatever dollar value they see fit: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or whatever.

theres no implied agreement anywhere to rent points at $10, and the small group of members here renting points out are hardly a market power

 

[tjkraz]

this is just pure crazy talk. theres no set price. theres over 80,000 memebers who have the right to rent their points for whatever dollar value they see fit: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or whatever.

theres no implied agreement anywhere to rent points at $10, and the small group of members here renting points out are hardly a market power

Um...ricapito never implied that there was any price fixing happening. He was just attempting to define the concept in response to others' comments (theories?) as to whether it is or could happen in the future.

 

[JLS]

Every time this topic comes up, someone gets paranoid that a discussion here of what is a reasonable rental rate will equate to "illegal price fixing." Its a silly thing to worry about, for the reasons stated above (mainly, the fact that the posters on this board are nowhere near a market power compared to the number of people who have points to rent, as well as other factors that would play into the legal analysis).

That aside, I completely agree that the primary reason for more and more people renting points is that many are buying DVC with the idea that they will use many points for exchanges, cruises, stays at Disneyland or other Disney resorts, etc., and then it is disappointing to find the points needed for those exchanges so overinflated that it is not good value. We live near Disneyland and would love to use our points for exchanges, but never will because its a ripoff for us. I am not going to pay 45 points per night for a standard view regular room at the Grand Californian on a weekend when I could go on Expedia, or even through Disney, and rent the exact same room with NO DISCOUNT for $275 (and I can often get a better rate than that). Even at the low-ish going rate of $10 per point, I can get $450 for my 45 points, pay $275 per night to the hotel, and have a nice tidy sum left over to use for whatever I want. Just an example.

-Jenn

 

[ricapito]

this is just pure crazy talk. theres no set price. theres over 80,000 memebers who have the right to rent their points for whatever dollar value they see fit: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or whatever.

theres no implied agreement anywhere to rent points at $10, and the small group of members here renting points out are hardly a market power

Whoa, slow down and read my post trail. Someone early on posted about setting a price at $10 and I responded. I have never implied it was happening, merely spelling out what I believe to be the elements of the cause of action for all to see and stating my opinion that getting together to set rental prices is likely a bad idea.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Where did that magic number of $10.00 come from. I would think the point of renting is to get a deal!! Not pay close to what you would pay direct. Not that it even comes close, but if I can't use my points, and I want to rent them, guarantee a quick sale, and $6.00 covers my expenses, what's the problem.

Now of course you've taken into consideration the taxes you need to pay out of that $6.00 haven't you?

 

[bongo59]

renting only makes sense long term if you go to disney once in a while............we have always gone to WDW and DL 4 times a yr so buying made a ton of financial sense

 

[cruise-o-matic]

I could see where if:

a) You cannot plan far in advance

b) You can travel on short notice

c) You travel once a year or less to WDW (had to throw this one in...call it the "Bongo Rule" )

that renting distressed points would make more sense over buying points. Even if there is little availability at DVC resorts, you could use the points for a Mod or Deluxe and still be below rack rate.

Hey, if someone can get $15 or more per point, then more power to them. I can see BCV owners charging a premium at the 11 month window.

If you, for some reason, have points that are about to expire and can at least get back what you paid in maintenance fees, better than getting nothing.

 

[fkj2]

OK, so I'm curious; did anyone really try the shadydeal@hotmail.com address and receive a response?