Don't bring ammunition to Turks & Caicos

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Hope this new rule doesn’t bite them where it hurts - tourist money. Lots of other beautiful Caribbean islands out there without the long prison sentences.

I'm sure some will avoid them because of the rule. Some will also be more likely to travel there knowing they have a hard policy on guns and ammunition.

 

[longboard55]

I'm sure some will avoid them because of the rule. Some will also be more likely to travel there knowing they have a hard policy on guns and ammunition.

Interesting

• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2022 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2021.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2021 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2020.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2020 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2019.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2019 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2018.

 

[declansdad]

U.S. tourist number FIVE has been arrested after two rounds of ammo has been allegedly found in her luggage.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/another-american-detained-turks-and-caicos-airport-ammunition-luggage/

Stupid people doing stupid things. The statement from the NRA just proves they really don't care about responsibility.

Zero tolerance policies are rarely reasonable, let alone very reasonable. You don't severely punish people for an honest mistake that literally could have no negative consequences on anybody. Sounds like an island run by idiots.

More like idiots that don't take care of their ammunition and don't know how to check their own luggage.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Stupid people doing stupid things. The statement from the NRA just proves they really don't care about responsibility.



More like idiots that don't take care of their ammunition and don't know how to check their own luggage.

I'm just glad you are perfect and never made an honest, innocent mistake in your life.

 

[Disney Bobby]

I've said since the start of the thread that I also think 12 years is excessive. I've also suggested options that should get the point across. What are yours? What's "reasonable", but harsh enough that folks will be extra careful?

If they can determine an intent that wasn't nefarious, just a fine for the first offense. I mean, common sense.

 

[sam_gordon]

If they can determine an intent that wasn't nefarious, just a fine for the first offense. I mean, common sense.

And that's what it used to be. But people kept doing it. I agree with the fine, but IMO, make IT the outrageous part. Something like $10k for each piece of ammunition. If you don't want to pay the fine, THEN spend the time in jail.

 

[declansdad]

I'm just glad you are perfect and never made an honest, innocent mistake in your life.

Never said I was perfect but I know what's in my luggage when I travel. Don't you?

 

[Imzadi]

I saw a brief interview on the news, with the first two men being held in T&C while awaiting their trials. Even they were shocked that a fifth person has been arrested. They said the reason they came forward with their stories and the punishment is so others will be alerted to check their luggage and not accidentally bring in ammo. They thought their stories were well known by everyone by now.

 

[Imzadi]

Accidents happen. Some people hunt. I could easily see a stray bullet ending up in a pocket of some piece of clothing. I mean, how hard is it not to leave a pen in some article of clothing and how often does it end up in a washing machine. Different people have different lifestyles that could open themselves up to different risks. Doesn't make them an idiot.

Leaving a pen while doing routine laundry is not even of the same stakes as leaving ammo in pockets when traveling to Turks & Caicos.

Unless one goes to Turks & Caicos every week, checking for ammo isn't a routine task.

Do you accidentally forget your passport or plane tickets at home? Or do you check to make sure you have them before your trip? (This is assuming you can't re-print your tickets again.) And if you do forget your passport, do you stand in the airport blaming the airlines or the government of the country you are in for not letting you board - for YOUR mistake?

If you always bring your passport and plane tickets, it's because you know to check to make sure you have them. If you go to Turks & Caicos, then adding "Check for accidentally stowed ammo," should be number 3 on your checklist. It is YOUR personal responsibility.

If you have ADHD or some other condition or situation that makes you scattered and forgetful, then you need to have someone double check you luggage after you've packed. And if that is not possible, then yes, maybe Turks & Caicos is NOT a destination you should go to. Again personal responsibility.

Traveling to another country is a privilege not a right or entitlement.

 

[Imzadi]

If they can determine an intent that wasn't nefarious, just a fine for the first offense. I mean, common sense.

Who determines it was nefarious? Have you ever watched Shawshank Redemption or a cop drama? The running joke is that everyone in prison is innocent. There isn't a single prisoner that has done the crimes they were sentenced for.

How does the T&C government know that these prisoners didn't bring 20 rounds of ammo in and sold them to someone there and then forgot to give the 2-3 rounds left in their bag on the way back home?

 

[pens4821]

It's on them for going somewhere with idiotic rules. I don't care what anybody says, there is no justification to put someone in jail for 12 years minimum for a loose bullet. Not a weapon. No intent to smuggle ammo. Just an honest mistake. Ridiculous to even suggest that. If they aren't idiots, they should be able to easily determine intent and issue a reasonable punishment.

While I agree it’s too harsh, I don’t agree that you can just say it’s an honest mistake. Yeah, I’m sure all five of these people it was. At the same time how do you know that? Yes it sounds ridiculous that Americans would be smuggling ammo in a couple pieces at a time, but it could indeed happen. Some people smuggle in a couple rounds of ammo. Some people smuggle in a gun. Before you know it there are guns with ammo in the hands of the citizens that shouldn’t have it. Just because the US is ok with guns doesn’t mean every country is.

Not the same, but just like people coming to the US, taking flight lessons. Then using those lessons to crash planes into buildings in the same country they were taking the lessons. Who would’ve ever thought that people were going to flight school in the US for terrorist reasons?

I’ll give the first couple people, but anyone at this point has no excuse what so ever. It’s been on the news (tv and online) now when it happens.

I think the US should get a little more strict on guns and planes. This is NOT a gun control debate. You aren’t allowed a gun on a plane so that is what I’m speaking of. Clearly the punishment isn’t enough if it continually happens. A quick google search showed that they confiscated 6737 (6542 in 2022) guns at US airports in 2023. That is ridiculous. I could guarantee if they started sentencing people to 12 years for having a gun going through security in an airport that number would drop drastically.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Interesting

• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2022 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2021.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2021 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2020.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2020 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2019.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2019 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2018.

Yeah, that is interesting. Looks like they passed a nutty law to fix a problem that didn't exist. Reeks of the small towns that drop the speed limit to something absolutely low for revenue generation. I bet it costs a small fortune to local counsel and authorities to get out of it.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Who determines it was nefarious? Have you ever watched Shawshank Redemption or a cop drama? The running joke is that everyone in prison is innocent. There isn't a single prisoner that has done the crimes they were sentenced for.

How does the T&C government know that these prisoners didn't bring 20 rounds of ammo in and sold them to someone there and then forgot to give the 2-3 rounds left in their bag on the way back home?

Then prove that. But zero tolerance, severe punishment for something that is most likely a mistake is ridiculous.

 

[sam_gordon]

Interesting

• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2022 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2021.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2021 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2020.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2020 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2019.
• Turks and Caicos Islands murder/homicide rate for 2019 was 0.00, a NAN% decline from 2018.

hmm...
Some quotes from: https://www.visittci.com/travel-inf...rks and Caicos,and robbed of their belongings.

Muggings and armed robberies, where victims are confronted by one or more armed criminals, are somewhat common in the Turks and Caicos.

The Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police Force generally does not release crime statistics, so it’s hard to quantify risk. An estimate is that 0-10 home invasions involving visitors occur each year, where occupants are confronted by armed intruders and robbed of their belongings.

Remote and isolated areas in the Turks and Caicos may have an increased risk of crime, including armed robberies.

From: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/turks-and-caicos-islands/safety-and-security

Providenciales and Grand Turk have seen higher levels of gun-related crime than other islands.

If the quote saying they don't release crime statistics is true, the numbers @longboard55 don't mean there was no murder or homicides in those four years, just nothing was officially reported.

And I hope everyone knows that guns don't always lead to murder/homicides. They could be used in robberies and home invasions without a shot being fired.

 

[sam_gordon]

Then prove that. But zero tolerance, severe punishment for something that is most likely a mistake is ridiculous.

The T&C government apparently doesn't think so. BUT, based on ALL of the news surrounding this "ridiculous" punishment, if you own a weapon, why would you NOT double and triple check your bags to make sure you don't make a mistake?

Going back to leaving a pen in your pocket when you do the wash. Let's say, instead of just leaving ink all over the drum, if you wash a pen in the laundry, not only does it destroy the washing machine, but also is guaranteed to jam the intake open, flooding the room and destroying everything in it. Wouldn't you ABSOLUTELY make sure you don't accidently leave a pen in a pocket? Presumably you would check before putting your clothes in the hamper, and someone would check before putting the clothes in the washer.

 

[Disney Bobby]

While I agree it’s too harsh, I don’t agree that you can just say it’s an honest mistake. Yeah, I’m sure all five of these people it was. At the same time how do you know that? Yes it sounds ridiculous that Americans would be smuggling ammo in a couple pieces at a time, but it could indeed happen. Some people smuggle in a couple rounds of ammo. Some people smuggle in a gun. Before you know it there are guns with ammo in the hands of the citizens that shouldn’t have it. Just because the US is ok with guns doesn’t mean every country is.

Not the same, but just like people coming to the US, taking flight lessons. Then using those lessons to crash planes into buildings in the same country they were taking the lessons. Who would’ve ever thought that people were going to flight school in the US for terrorist reasons?

I’ll give the first couple people, but anyone at this point has no excuse what so ever. It’s been on the news (tv and online) now when it happens.

I think the US should get a little more strict on guns and planes. This is NOT a gun control debate. You aren’t allowed a gun on a plane so that is what I’m speaking of. Clearly the punishment isn’t enough if it continually happens. A quick google search showed that they confiscated 6737 (6542 in 2022) guns at US airports in 2023. That is ridiculous. I could guarantee if they started sentencing people to 12 years for having a gun going through security in an airport that number would drop drastically.

Yeah, sure. And let's do that for DUI too. And drug offenses. And actual gun crime here. I'm willing to bet some the folks here that are fine with throwing the book at these people would be protesting in the streets over who ended up in jail for 12 years.

 

[Disney Bobby]

The T&C government apparently doesn't think so. BUT, based on ALL of the news surrounding this "ridiculous" punishment, if you own a weapon, why would you NOT double and triple check your bags to make sure you don't make a mistake?

Going back to leaving a pen in your pocket when you do the wash. Let's say, instead of just leaving ink all over the drum, if you wash a pen in the laundry, not only does it destroy the washing machine, but also is guaranteed to jam the intake open, flooding the room and destroying everything in it. Wouldn't you ABSOLUTELY make sure you don't accidently leave a pen in a pocket? Presumably you would check before putting your clothes in the hamper, and someone would check before putting the clothes in the washer.

Just because a foreign government thinks something doesn't make it morally right. And some people don't drown themselves in the news anymore given the propaganda style delivery.

And even with your washing machine example, it could still happen. Humans aren't perfect, which is why there should always be exceptions based on intent.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yeah, sure. And let's do that for DUI too. And drug offenses. And actual gun crime here. I'm willing to bet some the folks here that are fine with throwing the book at these people would be protesting in the streets over who ended up in jail for 12 years.

You don't think that if a BAC of 0.09 (or higher) automatically equaled a minimum of 12 years in jail, the number of DUI incidents would drop? Who in their right mind would take a chance of having "one too many" if they knew it would result in 12 years?

Am I advocating for that? No. But it kind of makes you wonder. One of my former coworkers (of 30 years) was killed last Friday night after being hit head on by a drunk driver who had crossed the center line. I wonder if the guy (assuming) had a previous DUI. If he would have been in jail for 12 years, maybe my friend would still be alive.

 

[sam_gordon]

Just because a foreign government thinks something doesn't make it morally right. And some people don't drown themselves in the news anymore given the propaganda style delivery.

You didn't have to "drown yourself" in the news to hear about this story. It was posted all over the place. People were talking about it.

And even with your washing machine example, it could still happen. Humans aren't perfect, which is why there should always be exceptions based on intent.

Yes, it could still happen, and I could be called up to the 49ers to play QB.

 

[Disney Bobby]

You don't think that if a BAC of 0.09 (or higher) automatically equaled a minimum of 12 years in jail, the number of DUI incidents would drop? Who in their right mind would take a chance of having "one too many" if they knew it would result in 12 years?

Am I advocating for that? No. But it kind of makes you wonder. One of my former coworkers (of 30 years) was killed last Friday night after being hit head on by a drunk driver who had crossed the center line. I wonder if the guy (assuming) had a previous DUI. If he would have been in jail for 12 years, maybe my friend would still be alive.

Sure. And let's go all T&C and just ban the actual possession of alcohol altogether. Get caught with a single beer? 12 years. All least that would save actual lives and not take deaths from zero to zero.