Doncha just hate it when you have to do the right thing?--UPDATE pg 5 #63

[minkydog]

If your daughter is doing well in dance maybe she should drop the algebra (I know, I know).

When I sit in the Opera House and watch the Australian Ballet perform I have never once wondered if the dancers passed Algebra.

this made me smile. I remember when DS23 was struggling with algebra and I finallly told him "Son, all you have to do is pass the class. I promise you, in your field(theater) you will NEVER use algebra again."

Is failing an F? or a D? or what?

An F is anything 69 or lower. She made a 65.

Do you think your DD did not do the work, did not complete homework or misbehaved in the class, if not what are you punishing her for? Not being able to understand or do one class in school, if so I hope you and your husband have never failed at anything in your lives.

No, I know she did the work because I saw her do it almost every night, including weekends.

I wonder if she was a boy would your husband make him quit sports because of grades? I say this because I have a friend whose husband fully supported their son in sports but refused to allow their daughter to go out for cheering or the dance team.

This is a good point. Dance is her "sports".

But the problem is that she will probably be applying to colleges soon and THEY will want to see her dance classes from 2nd semester Junior year. The OP may be throwing away a talent-based scholarship if she forces her DD to sit out the next semester. This isn't just a hobby that the DD likes. It is what she wants to do with her life. She will be at a severe disadvantage if she does not dance for the next semester. In addition, dancers are conditioned both in body and mind. Forcing to take 5-6 months off will also put her even farther back in dance as she will literally lose some of her ability during that time.

I agree. Dance is her fitness regimen, one she nevers tires of. I think if anything, she should be increasing and broadening her dance education now. DD is quite talented and she is often called upon to choreograph dances for her show choir. They did a Michael Jackson tribute this fall and she choreographed 3 of the 7 pieces.

And why are you just finding out now that she was failing and not getting help?

Oh no, we have known her grade was in trouble since about October. My husband spoke with the teacher several times and they exchanged emails. DH was NOT impressed with this teacher; said the man was arrogant and dismissive with him(I can't imagine what kind of pinhead teacher that made him!) DD did everything the teacher told her to do and it was never enough. She did reams and reams of extra work and he didn't even grade it(who knows if he even looked at it?) I don't think it was a "he just hates me" kind of thing. She often didn't understand things and when she would ask in class he would often make little snarky remarks(you know, a lot of HS teachers think this is an effective teaching method.) Well, it just shut her down. And then when she sought him out for tutoring(because he TOLD her to do that) often he wasn't there or had a prior commitment. She DID have a private tutor who was very patient and very good, and she responded very well with him. But then she would go to class and there was some disconnect.

DD feels strongly that she will do well in this online class. I think she will too. She's not a dummy. This is the first class she has ever failed. As to me and my husband, he failed 1st grade. I never failed anything until I was in my 3rd year of college(a night school psych class--really? I just wanted to hit the parties.) DS23 failed almost everything and we had to homeschool him through most of elementary, middle and high school. He barely graduated. Perhaps DH is over-reacting to DD because of DSs record of despair.

I think i am in agreement with most of you here. When I was her age I was all about band. Band is probably the thing that got me where I am today. It provided me several scholarships for college, cameraderie, a place of belonging. If not for band I would have been one of those girls who have low self-esteem, who latch onto the first bad boy who shows them any attention. No telling where's I'd be now.

I believe that taking away DDs dance classes will send a more punitive message than we want to make. Rather than saying "THis will help you pass your class" I think it will say " You really messed up so now we are PUNISHING you. There is nothing you can do about it. Your feelings don't matter because you CAN'T DO ALGEBRA!"

Okay, I'm going to talk to DH about this again. I think I'm going to have to take a stand.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Ahhh, I feel for you. It's good that you're wanting to stick to your guns, but I agree with everyone else. I'm usually not one to say "It's the teacher", but in this case, I think it might be. Your daughter sounds like a good girl and the punishment doesn't fit the crime as long as she was doing the best she could. It sounds like she did what she could at 16 (getting a tutor, doing her work) and it just wasn't clicking. I was a theater kid, and if it was taken away from me I would have been devastated. If she had been skipping class, not doing her assignments, or disruptive, then the dance class should have gone. But this doesn't seem the case. Hope all works out for you guys!

 

[declansdad]

Hope it all works out for your daughter. I'm still curious as to "everyone failing". If this is true, the administration should be all over this.

 

[minkydog]

Hope it all works out for your daughter. I'm still curious as to "everyone failing". If this is true, the administration should be all over this.

You and me both. I've sent her on a fact-finding mission today. I want names and grades of people that she knows failed that class. No way am I going to march into that school and start making demands. I know there are three sides to this story: her story, his story and the truth.

 

[minkydog]

Your daughter sounds like a good girl and the punishment doesn't fit the crime as long as she was doing the best she could. It sounds like she did what she could at 16 (getting a tutor, doing her work) and it just wasn't clicking. If she had been skipping class, not doing her assignments, or disruptive, then the dance class should have gone. But this doesn't seem the case. Hope all works out for you guys!

No, this girl has never skipped a class, cut school, or disrupted *anything*. I never have to prod her to get her work done. She is very self-organized, which is I believe a direct result of her dance & theater training. Perhaps if she can do well with the online class she can stay on track to graduate on time AND not have to drop out of any of her dance/show/theater things in her senior year. I know that *would* devastate her!

 

[declansdad]

You and me both. I've sent her on a fact-finding mission today. I want names and grades of people that she knows failed that class. No way am I going to march into that school and start making demands. I know there are three sides to this story: her story, his story and the truth.

Sounds like a good, rational approach to me.

 

[wdwfan16]

But the problem is that she will probably be applying to colleges soon and THEY will want to see her dance classes from 2nd semester Junior year. The OP may be throwing away a talent-based scholarship if she forces her DD to sit out the next semester. This isn't just a hobby that the DD likes. It is what she wants to do with her life. She will be at a severe disadvantage if she does not dance for the next semester. In addition, dancers are conditioned both in body and mind. Forcing to take 5-6 months off will also put her even farther back in dance as she will literally lose some of her ability during that time. I'm not sure how the dance program works at that level but I know that in other disciplines that classes have prerequisites and if she does not take a certain class next semester she may not be able to take a more advanced classes next year.

But that was the deal she had. If they did not want to do it then it should have never been an if your fail threat. A threat is only good if you follow through with it. If you make excuses, no matter how valid, then she will learn she can get her way in the end.

You and me both. I've sent her on a fact-finding mission today. I want names and grades of people that she knows failed that class. No way am I going to march into that school and start making demands. I know there are three sides to this story: her story, his story and the truth.

This is the correct next step.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

But that was the deal she had. If they did not want to do it then it should have never been an if your fail threat. A threat is only good if you follow through with it. If you make excuses, no matter how valid, then she will learn she can get her way in the end.

She is 16yo preparing for college. I know your kids are young so you don't quite understand the impact of the punishment.

Taking away dance would be correct IF she just blew the class off. The OP has stated that this is not the case. She tried.

So the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

 

[wdwfan16]

My DD16 is a dancer. She has been dancing about 18 hours a week. About 6 of those hours are with an outside dance studio. The rest is at school (she's in a show choir and various musical theater/dance productions.)

Last semester she failed Algebra 2. Well, in fact, everyone in her class failed, with the exception of one boy. She had issues with this teacher the whole semester. She went in for tutoring and he wouldn't show up or he forgot or some excuse. Now I'll grant you that she probably didn't prioritize her time as well as she should and we've always told her that if she fails a core class her dance classes will be going away. Now it's time to put our money where our mouth is. I hate to do it.

DH is ready to lower the boom on her. Because she failed her class she now has two options: take it online or in summer school for $550 or take it next year(12th grade) and give up show choir or theater(which is what she plans to major in.) DH wants her to go ahead and take the class now, while algebra is somewhat fresh. He refuses to let me take the money out of her small savings acct and I do agree with him. I just hate to be the baddy. So I'm signing her up in the morning and she will be allowed to go to dance on Thursday to say goodbye to the teacher and friends. I hate it for her because dancing is her LIFE. But school has to come first and it doesn't matter whether you "hate math" or have a "crummy teacher" or the moon and stars didn't align. If you fail you have to pay the piper.

Ugh. I hate being a grown up right now

She is 16yo preparing for college. I know your kids are young so you don't quite understand the impact of the punishment.

Taking away dance would be correct IF she just blew the class off. The OP has stated that this is not the case. She tried.

So the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

See above. She failed the class.

 

[robinb]

But that was the deal she had. If they did not want to do it then it should have never been an if your fail threat. A threat is only good if you follow through with it. If you make excuses, no matter how valid, then she will learn she can get her way in the end.

She can be "right" and "enforce her authority" but will that really get her the end result that she wants? Why in the world would you want to ruin her future just to enforce a "deal" and a "threat" that should have never been made in the first place? She obviously wants her DD to succeed in life, but to enforce this punishment would be to cut off her nose to spite her face.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

See above. She failed the class.

Her dd is 16 and preparing for college, not a preschooler. This needs to be addressed in a different manner.

 

[wdwfan16]

She can be "right" and "enforce her authority" but will that really get her the end result that she wants? Why in the world would you want to ruin her future just to enforce a "deal" and a "threat" that should have never been made in the first place? She obviously wants her DD to succeed in life, but to enforce this punishment would be to cut off her nose to spite her face.

That too has consequensences. When did the OP make that threat? Was it 5 years ago or at the begining of school? Did she tell her it was OK to fail as long as she tried? When did the daughter tell the OP she was failing? She knew she was in trouble months ago.

 

[wdwfan16]

Her dd is 16 and preparing for college, not a preschooler. This needs to be addressed in a different manner.

She needs to pass high school if she wants to go to college with a scholarship. The OP can bend the rules as she wishes but it seems her DH does not want to bend the rules.

What if the OP bends the rules and the daughter fails the class again? What is she graduates and there is no scholarship? Only time will tell if she made the right decision.

 

[shamrock30]

One of my majors in college was Theater, and I do think you should find another way for her to make up the class without dropping out of dance. However, some posters seem to be misinformed. In college, Theater/Dance majors DO have to take math. She won't need more advanced math such as Calculus, but depending on the school, Algebra II could prove to be fairly important. (Also, four year colleges require a certain amount of math just to be admitted.)

 

[BelleWDW]

She is 16yo preparing for college. I know your kids are young so you don't quite understand the impact of the punishment.

Taking away dance would be correct IF she just blew the class off. The OP has stated that this is not the case. She tried.

So the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I agree
If you have a bad teacher in math-you wont understand ANYTHING!


In college "I " was the only one getting "A";s in Trig-the rest was failing-so i can see this happening

 

[jeepgirl30]

My 10th yr of hs was horrid. My mom transfered me from a public school to a private school for 9th grade and then back into public. I had always been a good student and in 9th got mostly As. I had an A in Algebra 1.

10th rolls around and I can't get my head around Algebra 2. From day one I was struggling. I went to the teacher and asked for tutoring. She was appalled and made all kinds of nasty remarks about the A student not liking a bad grade and no way would she give me extra help as it would cut into her personal time. Most other classes they put me in with the 11th graders because i had already done 10th grade work at my other school so she was really nasty about that and how could i do 11th grade work in all other areas but math.

I went to our principal and our guidance counselor and finally got a teachers assistant to work with me. The Algebra teacher said the ONLY time she would allow it was during MY lunch! I agreed and she was pissed! She thought I'd say no. once the principal found out he stopped it but shows the support of one jerk teacher.

I passed but i think maybe C level. Can't remember it was way long ago

Next year I had her for Geo and was back to straight As.

In my day to day life I don't think I ever needed that Algebra 2 class. I still do eat lunch everyday though. My college degree has also gotten me in the door for employment. That class had no bearing on my college.

My long winded point is, the teacher may be the issue. There are great teachers and there are some not so great. If your DD has a talent that may get her a college sponsor why let one class screw up the rest of her life? Could she retake the class and keep dance? It seems like summer school or retaking is one punishment. Why give her two? Is there another punishment you could substitute?

 

[wvjules]

If you proceed with this harsh of a punishment for your DD for failing at something she really did try to pass, then I fear she may end up having the same relationship with you that your older DS has. She tried, she had tutoring, she did the work, and you are slapping her in the face telling her that her best isn;t good enough. Let alone the fact that this punishment might impact her future in college, life, etc. Figure out another punishemtn without taking away something so important.

 

[kacaju]

She needs to pass high school if she wants to go to college with a scholarship. The OP can bend the rules as she wishes but it seems her DH does not want to bend the rules.

What if the OP bends the rules and the daughter fails the class again? What is she graduates and there is no scholarship? Only time will tell if she made the right decision.

I think we can all agree that this child needs to pass her class.
Having a dd16 who is also a serious dancer I can say that my dd has basically the same rule. You need to keep your studies up or dance will be cut back.
That being said, there is a huge difference in a child who slacks off on studying because they are goofing off vs a child who is working hard in all of their classes and happens to hit one bad class.


The op's dd is doing well in all other classes, is not goofing off and tried to get help. She is willing to do the make up class.

 

[dakcp2001]

I would not believe the "everyone else failed too" excuse from your daughter unless it is confirmed by the school. My sister used that one too, and my mother bought it. It was not true.

 

[wdwfan16]

I would not believe the "everyone else failed too" excuse from your daughter unless it is confirmed by the school. My sister used that one too, and my mother bought it. It was not true.

Right now I am not believing that everybody else failed. If the OP finds out that everybody else failed then I would not pull her from dance. If the OP finds out that many did pass then I would pull her from dance.

ETA: The "everybody else" justificaton is as old as the hills. I used it as a kid. "Everybody else's mom is letting them go." "Everybody else is getting to stay home." Guess what. Neither was true.