Domestic park attendance down 4% in Q3

[rteetz]

It's a very ridiculous statement because there's a difference between enduring and managing crowds. Again, some Disney fanatics are pleased merely by being in the prospects, but the typical guest -- most of whom made some level of sacrifices to get to Disney -- isn't going to feel that way.

I am confused at what you are trying to get at here. Disney has crowds. Disney can be very crowded. People should know that. There will always be crowds whether you like it or not. Unless you make ticket prices $1000 a day you are going to have major crowds.

 

[rteetz]

Exactly. So more people are attending the Magic Kingdom, but wait times are stagnant. (And in many cases, shorter).

Proof that wait times are stagnant or shorter?

I gave you average crowd with average waits. You increase the crowd levels and the wait times go up even more. Do you have data besides your picture of a wait time board that shows me that wait times are stagnant or shorter than 20 years ago?

 

[DrunkJam]

We are disney visitors that will travel from UK very occasionally. (We are on 3 times in 7 years)
We know that the parks will be busy (especially as we go over actual Christmas)
We work out how to make what we want to do work, while minimising the impact of the crowds on our experience.
Disney is wildly expensive. We pay for it because it is more than we experience at a different theme park, it's a whole experience, and, lucky for them, they have tuned in whole generations to the idea of "Disney Magic" - now, we know this is marketing and spin and we are careful to make sure we feel we are getting what works for US value wise. BUT, we know we are paying a premium, for the "magic"
That said, Disney taught my autistic son not to be scared of Christmas, and they gave him a measurably better experience of being in a crowded park than ANY other busy "fun" place we have tried.
Of course, there is a limit. We won't pay any price. Our next trip is our last big family holiday anyway though, so, we won't have to make that choice.

 

[Kona65]

https://twitter.com/ocdisney/status/763121459535286273

Attendance woes continue.

When you increase prices, and decrease service, this will always happen.

 

[mcjaco]

That's a really deceitful and dis-truthful argument. At gate price, Six Flags' most expensive annual pass (Magic Mountain) is less expensive than one day's admission to WDW or DL. And if you buy during their perpetual sales, they'll throw in free parking, free admission for your friends on select dates and steep discounts if you purchase multiple annual passes.

Even if you wanted to attend Six Flags for just one day, you'd be foolhardy to pay gate price given that discounts amounting to 50% off are readily available. And if you drink Coke, you can usually score free tickets every spring by entering a few bottle caps.

It's not deceitful. That's actual price of a ticket, because the original argument was apples to apples in one day tickets. No fillers, blowbacks, deals, etc. Even at $45 (SFGAm deal right now), I wouldn't do it. Because, once again, I have to pay upcharges for a QBot to get on Raging Bull or Goliath or Batman in a respectable amount of time. So that's over $100 for the day....at Six Flags.

And trust me, I was annual pass holder there for years. I love SFGAm, I grew up going to that park, it's got sentimental value, but that only lasts so long. Again, if I'm going to go somewhere that I think my dollar is going to get more bang for an experience, it's Disney. Universal would be second....but I also have never read or watched Harry Potter, so that entire land means nothing to me (Pandora fits in there too for the Disney side).

 

[LAS2AMS]

It's not deceitful. That's actual price of a ticket, because the original argument was apples to apples in one day tickets. No fillers, blowbacks, deals, etc. Even at $45 (SFGAm deal right now), I wouldn't do it. Because, once again, I have to pay upcharges for a QBot to get on Raging Bull or Goliath or Batman in a respectable amount of time. So that's over $100 for the day....at Six Flags.

And trust me, I was annual pass holder there for years. I love SFGAm, I grew up going to that park, it's got sentimental value, but that only lasts so long. Again, if I'm going to go somewhere that I think my dollar is going to get more bang for an experience, it's Disney. Universal would be second....but I also have never read or watched Harry Potter, so that entire land means nothing to me (Pandora fits in there too for the Disney side).

It's very deceitful. You simply can't avoid Six Flags' coupons -- they arrive regularly through the mail (via various mediums), they're on products many of us by (such as Coke cans), discounted tickets are available & marketed heavily at drug stores / grocery stores / and even gas stations, etc. Heck, they offer discounted tickets AT THE GATE. And the retail price of Six Flags' most expensive annual pass is less than one day's admission to Disney.

 

[LAS2AMS]

You can assume that but unless you work for Disney you don't have access to those demographics.

Anybody who's been to WDW can make a fair observation that the majority of its guests are families. While not specific to WDW, Visit Orlando supports that the majority of Central Florida's visitors are families.

But you already knew this. Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.

I am confused at what you are trying to get at here. Disney has crowds. Disney can be very crowded. People should know that. There will always be crowds whether you like it or not. Unless you make ticket prices $1000 a day you are going to have major crowds.

Price is the backbone of basic supply-and-demand: raise prices enough, demand will fall. It's difficult to argue that Disney didn't realize that many of its unprecedented price hikes (AP, one-day, etc.) wouldn't impact its overall attendance.

Proof that wait times are stagnant or shorter?

I gave you average crowd with average waits. You increase the crowd levels and the wait times go up even more. Do you have data besides your picture of a wait time board that shows me that wait times are stagnant or shorter than 20 years ago?

Do have any proof that wait times are longer today than 20 years ago? At least I'm supporting my assertions, even if you want to reject the evidence as being weak.

You guys are bickering over nothing. Either get back on topic or stop talking about who knows something and who doesn't

By the way Lockedoutlogic did work for Disney at one point.

It's disappointing that you choose not to say anything thing earlier when he took several unprovoked shots at me. Nor am I arguing that I know more than somebody -- you may disagree with my opinions and positions, but at least I'm one of the few people on here supporting them in some way or another. Working for Disney doesn't give credibility when you're relaying information that can easily be refuted.

 

[Roxyfire]

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

If you buy it full price, sure it's a bad deal. They always have deals on their gold passes toward the end of the year, effectively pricing them (with parking) around that price or a bit more. As the previous poster said, sometimes kids don't really care. Plus living within an hour makes it easy to go up there on a whim and spend a summer evening that we otherwise would've just been watching television. It's not for everyone and I wouldn't recommend buying a day pass + parking, that's just insane.

 

[rteetz]

Anybody who's been to WDW can make a fair observation that the majority of its guests are families. While not specific to WDW, Visit Orlando supports that the majority of Central Florida's visitors are families.

But you already knew this. Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.



Price is the backbone of basic supply-and-demand: raise prices enough, demand will fall. It's difficult to argue that Disney didn't realize that many of its unprecedented price hikes (AP, one-day, etc.) wouldn't impact its overall attendance.



Do have any proof that wait times are longer today than 20 years ago? At least I'm supporting my assertions, even if you want to reject the evidence as being weak.



It's disappointing that you choose not to say anything thing earlier when he took several unprovoked shots at me. Nor am I arguing that I know more than somebody -- you may disagree with my opinions and positions, but at least I'm one of the few people on here supporting them in some way or another. Working for Disney doesn't give credibility when you're relaying information that can easily be refuted.

You haven't given me any evidence to prove that wait times are stagnant or lower than they were in the past. At least I went and found the average wait times for attractions today. I'm not rejecting any evidence because you haven't given me any.

If you feel attacked or feel that a poster is doing something wrong hit the report button on the post and myself or someone else will take care of it. I don't see everything unfortunately.

 

[jade1]

You haven't given me any evidence to prove that wait times are stagnant or lower than they were in the past. At least I went and found the average wait times for attractions today. I'm not rejecting any evidence because you haven't given me any.

I missed that sorry, was that average wait time for SB? Or the overall average wait with FP guests included.

 

[rteetz]

I missed that sorry, was that average wait time for SB? Or the overall average wait with FP guests included.

I believe its just average standby wait times since we were comparing wait times pre FP. I used touring plans data.

 

[jade1]

I believe its just average standby wait times since we were comparing wait times pre FP. I used touring plans data.

So if half are FP, the wait time is about half of that.

 

[OldsDr]

Everyone on this thread is wrong. It is not Any Disney park, it is not any six flags park, not Busch gardens. We all need to go pay to get into Quassy(sp?) spend the day and then return to this discussion.

(I would have used Lake Compounce, but I recently discovered I like it there after not going for 14 years)

 

[rteetz]

So if half are FP, the wait time is about half of that.

We don't know if half are FP. We also don't know if the if you take out FPs the wait time would be cut in half. That is all assumption without any fact.

 

[jade1]

We don't know if half are FP. We also don't know if the if you take out FPs the wait time would be cut in half. That is all assumption without any fact.

Correct, but it could be 90% FP as well.

Only thing for sure is its far less than posted SB now when FP and/or FP+ guest wait times get factored in, compared to the past when SB was indeed the only metric.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Please wear a lockedoutlogic badge in case I am that lost looking tourist doing it all wrong, then I can say hi.

Anyway, as you were.

Just make sure it's before lunch...I tend to get sloppy

 

[rteetz]

Correct, but it could be 90% FP as well.

Only thing for sure is its far less than posted SB now when FP and/or FP+ guest wait times get factored in, compared to the past when SB was indeed the only metric.

True. This is starting to make me believe we don't need FP at all. I'd really like to see wait times without any FP today.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's a really deceitful and dis-truthful argument. At gate price, Six Flags' most expensive annual pass (Magic Mountain) is less expensive than one day's admission to WDW or DL. And if you buy during their perpetual sales, they'll throw in free parking, free admission for your friends on select dates and steep discounts if you purchase multiple annual passes.

Even if you wanted to attend Six Flags for just one day, you'd be foolhardy to pay gate price given that discounts amounting to 50% off are readily available. And if you drink Coke, you can usually score free tickets every spring by entering a few bottle caps.



You bemuse me, it's like talking to a used car or timeshare salesperson. "Yeah, I know the warranty says it doesn't cover repairs to the transmission, but you have to trust me on this. I know things you don't! Wink, wink."

Facts? Meaningless. Annual report? That's child's play!

At least it's entertaining .

It's not that...it's that you quote economics principles about supply and demand...but can't expand the thinking.

I read the annual reports every year...I'm waiting for that "it's just supply and demand" blip to show...

They musta been too busy...

I also understand SOME of the nuances...particularly in Florida...you can reject the existence of such things if you want. I guess...denial is a personal choice.

But my young friend is right...it's out of hand. I will yield what ever groundless quip you choose to repeat

 

[lockedoutlogic]

True. This is starting to make me believe we don't need FP at all. I'd really like to see wait times without any FP today.

Nobody ever considered that it's all a shell game?

And that the only way to increase the product for consumer is to add things to do? Not repackage and redistribute?

Hmmm...

 

[Nazran]

I totally expect Free Deluxe Dining and 50% Deluxe Room Discount when I return after Thanksgiving 2017... #AMIRITE