Domestic park attendance down 4% in Q3

[lockedoutlogic]

Including my family who are more spontaneous than MDE allows us to be. Before, we would walk in and do whatever. Now, we pick one thing to do and then see what happens from there, but I still have to figure out what time I can do that ONE thing. It's ridiculous. I'm not waiting on SB for these experiences more than 10 minutes. They've completely ruined anything being spontaneous about a Disney trip. My husband and I have gone to Epcot for the day where we didn't ride ANYTHING and just wandered around. We had a pretty good time too.

Oh sister, we've all been there...

 

[dlavender]

It's $99 to get into that rat hole. I hate that place

Whoa...I love me some WDW, but calling Busch Garden's a "rat hole" is a little extreme......I love that place as well. 5 amazing roller coasters, and other awesome rides. Can't wait til my kids are tall enough to really enjoy that place.

Back to the issue at hand....but I had to stand up for BG.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not true at all. The average guest arrives around noon, certainly not RD.

Plus hoppers and arrival days.

However the early group indeed loved FP, can't blame them they obtained 90% of the good ones, at least busier weeks.

No offense...but you made that all
Up.

The heaviest volume of arrivals are 30 minutes to 90 minutes after the posted opening times...

Fastpass was very much still in play then. And since you weren't gonna leave at 3 o'clock (like me...or you)...what Did matter if you had a 6:15 fastpass to splash mountain that you could use till close?

You want easy going touring...I like to drink and give directions to people
Who look lost...

We are not the "majority"
Here.

 

[disneyseniors]

Jade,
You and I want to wander into parks when we feel
Like it...take it or leave it...

But the majority go in early and stay damn near the whole day...it's limited time and/or dollars...

So the old fastpass system wasn't the major obstacle for them as if it you or I.

The 100% requirement to predeciding times now is just as big of a nuisance for many now

The requirement of predecide adr's (I know you don't have to),and fp's is a PIA! You hit the nail on the head.

And what do you do when you try to use the Disney site for my experience (which is already pre-set with adr's), to try and set up FP's at 60 days out, when the site won't. let. you. in.!!!! grrr................It won't accept my PW, because "it is already registered to (my name)". Yea, right, I am the one trying to get in.
Very frustrating, guess I'll have to call direct and enjoy that experience!

 

[jade1]

No offense...but you made that all
Up.

The heaviest volume of arrivals are 30 minutes to 90 minutes after the posted opening times...

Fastpass was very much still in play then. And since you weren't gonna leave at 3 o'clock (like me...or you)...what Did matter if you had a 6:15 fastpass to splash mountain that you could use till close?

You want easy going touring...I like to drink and give directions to people
Who look lost...

We are not the "majority"
Here.

You can cling to your distribution facts if you want. But then nobody should be complaining about the FP being distributed ahead of time correct?

Hmm I feel like a heard that a lot, I used to get more FP than I do now. I wonder why would that be?

You avoided hoppers and arrival day guests by the way.

 

[Madonna3]

Whoa...I love me some WDW, but calling Busch Garden's a "rat hole" is a little extreme......I love that place as well. 5 amazing roller coasters, and other awesome rides. Can't wait til my kids are tall enough to really enjoy that place.

Back to the issue at hand....but I had to stand up for BG.

opinions/experiences may vary.

 

[mcjaco]

Majority of People don't make more now than they did 10,20,30 years ago based on purchasing power...

So While crap like great adventure is $69.99...a similar day at magic kingdom can be $125...

And local amusement parks offer bounceback, two day deals, or cheap Annual upgrades...Disney offers nothing of those prior to a significant, 4 day investment in tickets...

...It's possible that things do change...unlikely as it may have looked a few years ago.

And would you really do a bounceback, two day deal, of annual upgrade at Great Adventure? I stopped renewing my SFGAm annual pass five years ago. There was no value to me, and I live ten minutes from it, so it's not like I wasn't doing multiple visits a year. Three hour lines (unless you paid the $100 upcharge for a QBot).

If I'm investing my money in a trip to a theme park, I'm going to Disney. And I'm going to do it for more that four days. So the value to me is better. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[mikepizzo]

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

I 100% agree with you.

My fiancee coaches cheerleading. They had a competition at Six Flags New England earlier in the year (we live in Connecticut). I used to get a season pass when I was in middle school cause that was the thing to do. I'm 26 now, and I'm thinking it was 10+ years since I stepped foot into that park. I was embarrassed to be there.

Regularly, tickets are about $65 but are now currently on sale for $50. Tack on $20 for parking, that's, as you said, $70 dollars for a daily ticket. The park was filthy, it looked like the buildings hadn't been painted in YEARS, and the employees were either apathetic or rude...leaning towards the latter.

A lot of people complain about College Program kids, but from my experience the majority of Cast Members I've interacted with had pride...or at least put up a good front. The majority of the Six Flags employees I experienced looked visibly upset to be there.

The value just doesn't even come close.

 

[jade1]

No offense...but you made that all
Up.

The heaviest volume of arrivals are 30 minutes to 90 minutes after the posted opening times...

Fastpass was very much still in play then. And since you weren't gonna leave at 3 o'clock (like me...or you)...what Did matter if you had a 6:15 fastpass to splash mountain that you could use till close?

Heaviest yes but what's your point. Even if it's the "majority" or over half the guests.

But lets say its true by 10:30 AM, and of course FP was still in play then duh.

You still have 24,999 guests that will arrive over the next say 13.5 hours correct? 9AM to midnight.

Fill in your best guess of the "average arrival time" for the entire 50,000 guests.________________

You don't believe that average could move an hour and a half (noon) for the average? Probably closer to 1PM or 2PM actually.

Regardless, even the guest arriving at 6PM should have a shot at good FP as well IMO. Paid for a ticket.

 

[DrunkJam]

I like to drink and give directions to people
Who look lost...

Please wear a lockedoutlogic badge in case I am that lost looking tourist doing it all wrong, then I can say hi.

Anyway, as you were.

 

[Madonna3]

Regardless, even the guest arriving at 6PM should have a shot at good FP as well IMO. Paid for a ticket.

This.

"Sorry you didn't get here at opening. Please stand in line for the remainder of your short time at the park. Please don't shop or have dinner, just stand in line"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And would you really do a bounceback, two day deal, of annual upgrade at Great Adventure? I stopped renewing my SFGAm annual pass five years ago. There was no value to me, and I live ten minutes from it, so it's not like I wasn't doing multiple visits a year. Three hour lines (unless you paid the $100 upcharge for a QBot).

If I'm investing my money in a trip to a theme park, I'm going to Disney. And I'm going to do it for more that four days. So the value to me is better. No ifs, ands, or buts.

No...and I'm not saying that's a better value..

I'm saying there is definite, widening gap in approach...

$100 for an annual down the street says "we want you here"

$125 ticked, $550 annuals, $55 at chef mickeys and $225 rooms at Dixie doesn't say that...

"It says "how much do you want it?" and "have credit...will travel"

 

[mshanson3121]

28 hours?!?

Are you coming from Venus?

Tell the plane to land the FIRST time it flys over MCO

I meant a 28 hour drive or a plane ride.

 

[mshanson3121]

I gues

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

Guess it depends where you go. Where we went, admission was only $28 pp (with free parking) and that got us 1.5 days, for almost 40 rides/attractions. If you buy one of the local attraction pass cards, then admission works out to $10 pp. The parks were very clean and bathrooms impeccable (with the largest public bathroom stalls I've ever seen, seriously, I was a bit shocked). We didn't eat their food since we packed a lunch, so I can't compare that. But the rides were good, typically longer than what you would get at Disney, and for the most part, were all rides that were identical or similar to what you'd get at Disney (ex. tea cups, splash mountain, kali rapids, small(er) coasters, Dumbo/Magic Carpets, Jungle Cruise etc...). The theming/paint work was not on par with Disney, definitely not, but the kids could care less about that. They just want the ride to be fun, and they were.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Don't crowds and capacity work hand in hand though?

I love when people bring up AK because I love that park and I feel it has plenty to do. It isn't your typical theme park isn't all about rides. No theme park is all about rides. You want rides? Go to that amusement park. Theme parks have a lot more to offer and AK in my opinion is a full day park and possibly a park I can go to more than one day.

Joe Rohde was certainly concerned about the lack of attractions & entertainment at the AK's opening and his concerns were validated when the public response to the AK was lackluster. People attend theme parks for the attractions and entertainment. The AK may have been a beautiful, glorified zoo but few people are interested in spending several hundred dollars to spend the day at a zoo.

I realize that Disney fanatics get a warm & fuzzy feeling that makes even walking around the parks worth the price of admission, but recognize that you're outliers. A trip to WDW is a huge investment for the typical guest and they're not looking for a "walk in the park."

You experience crowds everywhere. You don't like crowds? Don't leave your house. Crowds are at the grocery store, your state fair, your zoo, sporting events, etc. if you go to WDW not expecting crowds then something is wrong. It's going to be crowded that's just a given.

This is a ridiculous statement. Let's use a non-Disney analogy: Last Holiday season, my family stayed at an all-inclusive in Los Cabo. Because it was the Holidays, I anticipated it'd be crowded -- and it was, but the resort was enormous and could easily handle the crowd. However, the facilities could not. This was best exemplified by the dining -- reservations were filled by its vacation club members, limiting us to the buffet, which was quite good but the resort couldn't keep up with its guests so section was very limited. Beautiful resort, but we didn't pay nearly $700/night to enjoy the grounds.

Do you have numbers from 1996? I'd like to compare those wait times to today's. You only get three FPs too so you can have space, splash and big thunder but then what about mine train, Peter pa, or pirates? You're waiting in long lines for those in the summer.

I have several pictures of the MK's wait board (and a few of the Studio's) taken in the late 1990s that I'll scan and share later. 90-minute (and typically 120) were the norm for the Mountains, and 60+ was expected on the more popular attractions. You'd expect the MK to have longer waits today given the larger crowds, but that's not the case.

 

[rteetz]

Joe Rohde was certainly concerned about the lack of attractions & entertainment at the AK's opening and his concerns were validated when the public response to the AK was lackluster. People attend theme parks for the attractions and entertainment. The AK may have been a beautiful, glorified zoo but few people are interested in spending several hundred dollars to spend the day at a zoo.

I realize that Disney fanatics get a warm & fuzzy feeling that makes even walking around the parks worth the price of admission, but recognize that you're outliers. A trip to WDW is a huge investment for the typical guest and they're not looking for a "walk in the park."



This is a ridiculous statement. Let's use a non-Disney analogy: Last Holiday season, my family stayed at an all-inclusive in Los Cabo. Because it was the Holidays, I anticipated it'd be crowded -- and it was, but the resort was enormous and could easily handle the crowd. However, the facilities could not. This was best exemplified by the dining -- reservations were filled by its vacation club members, limiting us to the buffet, which was quite good but the resort couldn't keep up with its guests so section was very limited. Beautiful resort, but we didn't pay nearly $700/night to enjoy the grounds.



I have several pictures of the MK's wait board (and a few of the Studio's) taken in the late 1990s that I'll scan and share later. 90-minute (and typically 120) were the norm for the Mountains, and 60+ was expected on the more popular attractions. You'd expect the MK to have longer waits today given the larger crowds, but that's not the case.

Do you have Joe Rohde quotes from articles or something to prove that? Yes AK without some of the things originally planned but that is because of the budget overruns. Shanghai opened that same way.

Several hundred dollars to go to a park for one day? Last I checked its just over $100 for a one day ticket and a multi-day ticket is cheaper per day for each day you add on.

Why is that a ridiculous statement? Because its true? When you pay for a ticket or vacation to Disney you should expect crowds just like you expected crowds at Los Cabo. If you think there won't be crowds you might be living under a rock.

In the summer and busier times like spring break and the holidays the mountains are still routinely at 75+ minutes. Look here at touring plans data. https://touringplans.com/magic-kingdom/crowd-levels

Crowd level 5 is what is considered average. Big Thunder waits range from 40-65, Space 49-91, Splash 52-76, Pan 58-95. Looks like things haven't changed much since the 90s...

 

[LAS2AMS]

I can't tell you how many times over the years, I'd get blasted on Disney boards by Disney fans complaining about how crappy the value of a local theme park (ie: Six Flags) compared to Disney....not we've flip flopped? WTH.

A one day ticket at my local Six Flags is regularly $69.99. The park is not clean, the ride ops are terrible, and the over park is just meh. I'm a fan of any and all theme parks, but the value.....it's not at my local parks compared to Disney.

That's a really deceitful and dis-truthful argument. At gate price, Six Flags' most expensive annual pass (Magic Mountain) is less expensive than one day's admission to WDW or DL. And if you buy during their perpetual sales, they'll throw in free parking, free admission for your friends on select dates and steep discounts if you purchase multiple annual passes.

Even if you wanted to attend Six Flags for just one day, you'd be foolhardy to pay gate price given that discounts amounting to 50% off are readily available. And if you drink Coke, you can usually score free tickets every spring by entering a few bottle caps.

You continue to prove me right with your general lack of knowledge on this one...

Shouting theory from the prairie or something...there's a difference between theory and application. That will be covered in the second half of the semester.

Have you ever worked in a business unit at a company that's a major theme park operator? Honest question...

You bemuse me, it's like talking to a used car or timeshare salesperson. "Yeah, I know the warranty says it doesn't cover repairs to the transmission, but you have to trust me on this. I know things you don't! Wink, wink."

Facts? Meaningless. Annual report? That's child's play!

At least it's entertaining .

 

[rteetz]

You bemuse me, it's like talking to a used car or timeshare salesperson. "Yeah, I know the warranty says it doesn't cover repairs to the transmission, but you have to trust me on this. I know things you don't! Wink, wink."

Facts? Meaningless. Annual report? That's child's play!

At least it's entertaining .

You guys are bickering over nothing. Either get back on topic or stop talking about who knows something and who doesn't

By the way Lockedoutlogic did work for Disney at one point.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Do you have Joe Rohde quotes from articles or something to prove that? Yes AK without some of the things originally planned but that is because of the budget overruns. Shanghai opened that same way.

http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2001/01/01/309.aspx

BTW, The woes of the Animal Kingdom were discussed heavily on these very forums in the early 2000s and can be accessed via the archives.

Several hundred dollars to go to a park for one day? Last I checked its just over $100 for a one day ticket and a multi-day ticket is cheaper per day for each day you add on.

The last time I checked, most of the people attending Disney were families, not singles. What do you think that adds up to for a family, paying for multi-day passes, parking (if applicable), captive food/drink prices, etc.?

Why is that a ridiculous statement? Because its true? When you pay for a ticket or vacation to Disney you should expect crowds just like you expected crowds at Los Cabo. If you think there won't be crowds you might be living under a rock.

It's a very ridiculous statement because there's a difference between enduring and managing crowds. Again, some Disney fanatics are pleased merely by being in the prospects, but the typical guest -- most of whom made some level of sacrifices to get to Disney -- isn't going to feel that way.

In the summer and busier times like spring break and the holidays the mountains are still routinely at 75+ minutes. Look here at touring plans data. https://touringplans.com/magic-kingdom/crowd-levels

Crowd level 5 is what is considered average. Big Thunder waits range from 40-65, Space 49-91, Splash 52-76, Pan 58-95. Looks like things haven't changed much since the 90s...

Exactly. So more people are attending the Magic Kingdom, but wait times are stagnant. (And in many cases, shorter).

 

[rteetz]

The last time I checked, most of the people attending Disney were families, not singles. What do you think that adds up to for a family, paying for multi-day passes, parking (if applicable), captive food/drink prices, etc.?

You can assume that but unless you work for Disney you don't have access to those demographics.