Dog and Cat Fur. An appalling trade!

[momof2inPA]

That said, I followed the Hong Kong Disneyland thread a while back and re DawnCt1, I have to say that I was struck by what seems to be the hatred of anything China related and the Chinese community in general. I enjoy these boards and I can say that this is one of the few times I have been very uncomfortable about a posters particular views. Sure, I'm jaded because of Lily, but I'm not a fan of prejudice no matter the reason. China has millions of people and I would bet that some of those many people are just as sickened and offended by the animal practices are we are.

Aren't you the poster who received the hate e-mail on the illegal immigration thread that Dawn started? You don't actually think that was from Dawn, do you? I'm just wondering if the idea that she might have sent that e-mail is also jading you.

Because Dawn disagrees with some practices that are either common or uncommon in China, that doesn't mean that she hates the Chinese or believes Americans in general are smarter than Chinese. I must say that some uses they have for certain products (such as bear bile) seem ridiculous, even though they might be tradition. Why is it wrong to say that?

 

[Laura]

Aren't you the poster who received the hate e-mail on the illegal immigration thread that Dawn started? You don't actually think that was from Dawn, do you? I'm just wondering if the idea that she might have sent that e-mail is also jading you.

Because Dawn disagrees with some practices that are either common or uncommon in China, that doesn't mean that she hates the Chinese or believes Americans in general are smarter than Chinese. I must say that some uses they have for certain products (such as bear bile) seem ridiculous, even though they might be tradition. Why is it wrong to say that?

It isn't wrong to say that it's ridiculous. I think I've stated that skinning cats and dogs is much worse than ridiculous. But I can't say we're all that much better here, which is what Dawn is stating. Many animals in this country are treated quite inhumanely in massive numbers. An example is chickens in factory farms.

I think it's also because of past posts by Dawn about China and its culture that leads some of us to assume she has at least some Sino-phobic tendencies. If she doesn't and we're wrong, then great

 

[Deb in IA]

Aren't you the poster who received the hate e-mail on the illegal immigration thread that Dawn started?

No, I am not.

 

[cardaway]

I think it's also because of past posts by Dawn about China and its culture that leads some of us to assume she has at least some Sino-phobic tendencies.

And the French, the Middle East, Africa, and ...

 

[DawnCt1]

That she continues to pick out an isolated, limited practice to stereotype an entire nationality and culture with her myopic views.

That she refuses to accept diversity.

That her insistence on her own cultural superiority borders on fanaticism.

That she is totally incapable of any reflection, introspectioe on the basis of the actions of a few are indeed Sino-phobic, bigoted, and racisn, or even sensitivity.

That her continued attacks on Chinese culturt.



Since the OP continues to miss the point, I will try to state my points very simply.
1. Not everyone in China engages in this practice.
2. It is actually illegal in China.
3. Animal cruelty is NOT unique to China, and occurs daily right here in the USA
4. There are plenty of things in the American culture that China feels is equally, or more abhorrent, including our rates of homicide, drug abuse, domestic abuse, child abuse, and obesity, which are all much, much greater than in China.

For the record, I don’t wear fur, and we have a dog and 2 rescue cats.

Deb, there are certainly aspects of American culture that are very unattractive, as you have listed above. I do not take that criticism personally. The point of the discussion is that we were talking about the dog and cat fur trade. You state that it it actually illegal in China, however those reporting it, including the US Humane Society, state that it is rampant and wide spread. The criminal justice system in China is rather strict, so it seems unusual that there would be such wide spread criminal activity that is so visable to foreigners. Animal abuse does occur in the USA but it is always illegal and the perpetrators are always punished when caught.
In the context of the discussion, I do not feel that I have to be "sensitive" to any cultural aspects that involve animal abuse. I feel the same way about Spain and Mexico with bull fighting, Puerto Rico with **** fighting and the Philappines as well as China with dog and cat fur trade. If you would re read what I said, it was with regard to animal cruelty and I quote myself; "Does that make our culture "better" and their culture "worse" than ours, IN THIS CASE, you betcha!. " That is a big difference in your claiming that I am a "cultural superiority fanatic".
Perhaps you can point out to me where I "refuse to accept diversity". I refuse to accept that abhorant practices are acceptable, no matter where they exist and the excuse that they are "cultural", which several people have made, it only an excuse. If anyone is playing the "race card" here, it is you. Our circle of acquaintances is actually very diverse, and it includes people of all races, including Asian. Because there have been two discussions on this board that relates to China, one in which I have taken part and this thread which I have started, you have felt free to label me as "racist". You have accused me of implying that everyone takes part in this practice, which I did not. Perhaps you need to be a little bit more objective and a bit less defensive.

 

[Laura]

Animal abuse does occur in the USA but it is always illegal and the perpetrators are always punished when caught.

Not always. And some animals are not protected like others.

 

[DisMN]

As usual, you are missing the point. No one has said that anything the Chinese do has to be accepted by us. But we can't just dismiss the animal cruelty as backward if we want to stamp it out. We have to look at ways of convincing people that the need to slaughter dogs and cats or to siphon the bile from bears' gall bladders is not necessary in this day and age. If I were to tell you that vegetarians and vegans are superior to omnivores because we don't eat animals, would that spur you to stop buying meat?

There is a big difference between saying, "I don't care about the 'sensibilities' of the Chinese and that this may be 'culturally' acceptable to them" and asking how can we work within the culture to effect change?

Well said.
And you said it far better than I did what with my joking comments.

 

[DawnCt1]

Aren't you the poster who received the hate e-mail on the illegal immigration thread that Dawn started? You don't actually think that was from Dawn, do you? I'm just wondering if the idea that she might have sent that e-mail is also jading you.

Because Dawn disagrees with some practices that are either common or uncommon in China, that doesn't mean that she hates the Chinese or believes Americans in general are smarter than Chinese. I must say that some uses they have for certain products (such as bear bile) seem ridiculous, even though they might be tradition. Why is it wrong to say that?

Thank you for raising this issue. I have NEVER sent anyone hate mail. I think that you have stated the situation accurately. I am commenting on this subject alone. If someone were to post that many Asians do better academically as a group on standardized tests and grades than Americans do, I could hardly disagree and I certainly wouldn't say that the "writer" of that opinion hated the American culture and was just using the discussion as an opportunity to attack me or my culture personally. I would assume that we were having a discussion on Academic performance in the USA. Some things are true, regardless if we like the questions or the answers.

 

[DawnCt1]

And the French, the Middle East, Africa, and ...

Again Cardaway, you limit the discussion with regard to international issues if you ignore the cultural aspects that limit the discourse. With regard to African circumcision of women, and societal and educational restrictions place on women in the Middle East, is that just a "cultural norm" that we have to accept as correct? And if we don't we are all racists?

 

[cardaway]

The point of the discussion is that we were talking about the dog and cat fur trade. You state that it it actually illegal in China, however those reporting it, including the US Humane Society, state that it is rampant and wide spread. The criminal justice system in China is rather strict, so it seems unusual that there would be such wide spread criminal activity that is so visable to foreigners.

The list of things that are illegal, yet widespread, would be longer in the US than it would be in China.

Animal abuse does occur in the USA but it is always illegal and the perpetrators are always punished when caught.

Wrong. Check out the website ran by Alec's friends and you'll find a group that is sick of the US ignoring the rampant abuse in the food processing, science, and entertainment (circus) industry. All bodies acting within the law. Laws that PETA want changed.

 

[goofygirl]

For the record, I don’t wear fur, and we have a dog and 2 rescue cats.

Oh really? Interesting, since this is coming from someone who had a quote that said "all cats should be exterminated" (or something of that nature) in their signature at one time.

Or was that supposed to be funny?

 

[momof2inPA]

No, I am not.

Not you, Deb. I was asking happybratpak.

And for the record, I have yet to see a cat that could rescue anything but a little gerbil. If you are depending on those rescue cats to pull you out of a freezing lake or from flood waters, I think you should really consider a St. Bernard.

 

[DawnCt1]

The list of things that are illegal, yet widespread, would be longer in the US than it would be in China.



Wrong. Check out the website ran by Alec's friends and you'll find a group that is sick of the US ignoring the rampant abuse in the food processing, science, and entertainment (circus) industry. All bodies acting within the law. Laws that PETA want changed.

I really don't know what your obsession with Alec Baldwin is. I am not a fan of Alec Baldwin. If there are a list of things that are illegal, then the perpetrators are violating the law. If a complaint is filed, then charges would be filed. There have been several animal abuse sentences recently handed down in our own state. PETA has their own version of what they consider "rampant abuse" and they are usually dangling out on the extreme fringe.
Note; I am eating a fish taco in the picture. Fishing is unacceptable to PETA.

 

[Galahad]

"all cats should be exterminated"

Not all cats.....just the "breeders"......

 

[cardaway]

I really don't know what your obsession with Alec Baldwin is. I am not a fan of Alec Baldwin.

You're the one who brought the thoughts of PETA (Alec) to this board.

If there are a list of things that are illegal, then the perpetrators are violating the law. If a complaint is filed, then charges would be filed.

The primary beef of many of Alec's friends is that the US violators are NOT charged and brought to justice. Check it out.

Note; I am eating a fish taco in the picture. Fishing is unacceptable to PETA.

While you're checking them out be sure to copy where this came from. What I have read about their feelings on fishing isn't the broad statement you just made.

 

[DawnCt1]

You're the one who brought the thoughts of PETA (Alec) to this board.



.

I think I have told you repeatedly that I never thought I would be on the same page as Alec Baldwin. I don't like Alec Baldwin. I didn't like Alec Baldwin when I ran into him in Hawaii. But.....I wouldn't have been aware of this issue if Alec Baldwin hadn't been on the Larry King show, so therefore, that is why I brought up Alec Baldwin. You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. I don't need to agree with someone on EVERYTHING to agree with them on something. Everything isn't always black and white!

 

[happybratpack]

Aren't you the poster who received the hate e-mail on the illegal immigration thread that Dawn started? You don't actually think that was from Dawn, do you? I'm just wondering if the idea that she might have sent that e-mail is also jading you.

Ummm, I AM the poster that rec'd the nasty mail, but never thought or insinuated that it was from Dawn.

 

[happybratpack]

Thank you for raising this issue. I have NEVER sent anyone hate mail. I think that you have stated the situation accurately. I am commenting on this subject alone.

Once again I want to stress that I NEVER thought or insinuated that Dawn sent me that email. I'm upset that the poster even suggested it and stirred that pot. I didn't even remember that Dawn was involved in the Illegal Immigrant conversation, I specifically just remember the HK Disneyland one.

Fact is, Dawn says whatever she wants on the boards and I can't see someone like her hiding behind a fake email address. (not saying this in a negative way, Dawn) My observations were based on previous posts (some that I had nothing to even do w/ the thread) where comments have been made. Apparently I'm not imagining things since there are a number of other people commenting on it as well.

 

[Deb in IA]

And for the record, I have yet to see a cat that could rescue anything but a little gerbil. If you are depending on those rescue cats to pull you out of a freezing lake or from flood waters, I think you should really consider a St. Bernard.

A rescue cat is a cat that has been abandoned, later found and adopted as a pet.


LOL, Galahad!!