Dog and Cat Fur. An appalling trade!

[Chris2597]

I have heard of this and it makes me sick....but you know it goes on in our own country, just different animals....We were in San Fransico a few years ago and went to China Town and found the produce market street and it was horrible what they do....live chickens piled in cages, live frogs heaped on each other, fish flipping on ice.....Obviously I find the abuse of dogs and cats in China far worse....but it is true that different cultures treat animals differently and as sickening as it is to most of us cats and dogs are used for purposes other than pets in some foreign countries.....I think the big issue is the torture that these poor animals receive...they are not humanely killed....for food, clothing, ect....Just as the produce in SF was not treated humanely. I also agree with another poster that stated that even humans are not treated well in China....

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I understand the points some posters are making. However, I have to disagree that what occurs in the US is not anything remotely as cruel as that which occurs to animals in China.

I know many people did not care to open the links which I posted earlier. If that is the case than I believe you are not fully understanding the issues which are being discussed. In post #25, I included a link on Bear Bile Farming in China. Granted, slightly OT, however it illustrates the inhumanity which an accepted part of the culture in China.

Bears are kept in captivity their whole lives for the purpose of harvesting their bile. Their abdomens are cruelly and primitively cut and kept open in order to obtain their bile which the Chinese use for "medicinal" purposes, despite the fact there are better options available and the bile they harvest is loaded with pus and other impurities from the conditions under which it was harvested. The bears are kept in cages which are too small for their bodies in deplorable living conditions. They suffer this way for years, then are killed or starved to death. They live a life of unimaginable pain.

Can anyone who has read the entire article tell me that inhumanity of those proportions goes on legally in the US? I think not. As much as I am sickened as well over the horrific abuses the dogs and cats suffer, at least thier suffering is short lived.

In reading this thread, it's unfortunate that some have detracted from the discussion at hand to talk about Alec Baldwin's politics or say we should not be involved in the practices of the Chinese. Gee, last I heard, the US was a free country and we could "pick and choose" the causes we want to support or boycott as we wish. These issues are not new, they have been going on for years. It's easy to not read about them because they are uspetting. But maybe if more people were aware then they, too, could make more informed choices of who they wish to buy their goods from. JMO.

 

[DawnCt1]

Can anyone who has read the entire article tell me that inhumanity of those proportions goes on legally in the US? I think not. As much as I am sickened as well over the horrific abuses the dogs and cats suffer, at least thier suffering is short lived.

In reading this thread, it's unfortunate that some have detracted from the discussion at hand to talk about Alec Baldwin's politics or say we should not be involved in the practices of the Chinese. Gee, last I heard, the US was a free country and we could "pick and choose" the causes we want to support or boycott as we wish. These issues are not new, they have been going on for years. It's easy to not read about them because they are uspetting. But maybe if more people were aware then they, too, could make more informed choices of who they wish to buy their goods from. JMO.

ITA. Not only can we pick and chose but our government decided that the practice is abhorant enough NOT to allow imports. To assert that we aren't "culturally sensitive" because we are able to identify these practices as cruel and inhumane is ridiculous. Not all cultures are on the same level. I know that is "Un PC" but it is indeed a fact.

 

[momof2inPA]

Let me get this straight. When we buy goods from China, we are not only supporting a government which promotes and condones Communism, forced abortions, Christian abuse, and prisoner abuse, but animal cruelty, also? Hmm, why do we buy their stuff, then? Has everyone been checking their Christmas presents to make sure we aren't sending our hard earned money to these Chinese pet terrorists?

 

[Chris2597]

Linda
I am with you all the way on the horrible abuse that is deemed as culture....I get the idea that because it is culture related, then it is ok....I was stating the abuse that goes on in the US (China Town), not to try to compare it to the abuse that goes on in China...only to say that if you or I were displaying live fish on ice, frogs piled high and chicken stacked we would have the Animal Rights agencies on it in a heart beat, but because few, especially gov agencies want to step on toes when the culture card is thrown in....they get away with it....I think our animal protection agencies should look into the live produce conditions in the US...I am sure it goes on in most large cities. I know this is only the tip of the iceberg but our gov has to make a stand....if only to say this type of animal abuse is not tolerated.
I am one that can not bring myself to look at the websites listed.....I may be a wuss for not reading but just the thought of some of those things is enough for me to have nightmares....It sickens me to think of poor animals (wild or domestic) being treated this way....
I would never buy real fur or faux fur looking attire but other than boycotting...what can we do??.....

 

[Pea-n-Me]

other than boycotting...what can we do??.....

For others who are truly concerned, there is the World Society for the Protection of Animals, here is the website. In addition to articles on the Chinese fur trade, you'll see they are working to develop alternatives to the Bear Bile harvesting practices. I'd say that's being pretty culturally sensitive.

http://www.wspa-international.org/site/index.php?page=257&ilocale=1

Let me get this straight. When we buy goods from China, we are not only supporting a government which promotes and condones Communism, forced abortions, Christian abuse, and prisoner abuse, but animal cruelty, also? Hmm, why do we buy their stuff, then? Has everyone been checking their Christmas presents to make sure we aren't sending our hard earned money to these Chinese pet terrorists?

Cute.

 

[momof2inPA]

Cute.

I know, but I'm partly serious. If you don't agree with the way China operates, don't buy their products. It's easy to SAY you are against forced abortions, Communism, animal abuse, but when it comes down to ACTION, there is no follow through. We don't like to deprive ourselves of thier cheap products. Oh, we'll pick and choose, no cat fur under $150 for instance, but shouldn't we stop buying all of it, at least as long as the Chinese stance on childbearing and Christianity (and dog and cat fur) is what it is?

 

[Deb in IA]

I don't need PETA or Alec or Heather, to know that skinning a dog or a cat alive is hidious. I am glad that the United States has banned these products. I don't care about the "sensibilities" of the Chinese and that this may be "culturally" acceptable to them. It isn't culturally acceptable to the most of the Western World, particularly if they knew the details of the fur warming their cheeks. Does that make our culture "better" than theirs and their culture "worse" than ours? In this case, you betcha!

Actually, Dawn, I think what you are really saying is that you don't need Alec or Heather to spill more of your venomous, Sino-phobic rhetoric. You are a bigot and a racist.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I know, but I'm partly serious. If you don't agree with the way China operates, don't buy their products. It's easy to SAY you are against forced abortions, Communism, animal abuse, but when it comes down to ACTION, there is no follow through. We don't like to deprive ourselves of thier cheap products. Oh, we'll pick and choose, no cat fur under $150 for instance, but shouldn't we stop buying all of it, at least as long as the Chinese stance on childbearing and Christianity (and dog and cat fur) is what it is?

I agree with you.

 

[Deb in IA]

Racism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
Racism is the belief that people of different races differ in value, that these differences can be measured on a ranked, hierarchical scale, and that result in the social, political, and economic advantage of one group in relation to others.
In general, racism separates groups of people on the basis of race with the intent of viewing one race as more valuable and others as less valuable.

 

[Laura]

If you don't agree with the way China operates, don't buy their products.

 

[Cindyluwho]

I'd like to put in my two cents worth on this. In the early 90's I sold furs at Frederick & Nelson, a large department store in Seattle. In order to work in the Fur Salon you had to take classes, visit fur farms and attend the fur exchange where skins are sold. Being raised on a farm I know first hand what animals are raised for, ie: cows are for milk, beef, leather, etc. - dogs are for working/hunting, cats are for catching mice, chickens are for eggs & meat. You get my drift. We had dogs and cats in our home and they were loved and pampered, but they did have jobs. So, back to my fur story. Anyway, you would not believe how the mink on farms are raised. They live in perfectly temperature controlled cages, they are seperated from each other so they cannot fight and ruin their fur, they are fed special diets. By the way, their special diet is all those chicken guts, etc that come from the factories where chickens are butchered, so now you know where that pleasant stuff goes (ewwww, but better than the landfill or my dog's food). All in all, compared to farm animals, they're pretty pampered, and compared to chickens on a chicken farm, mink live in the Taj ma hal! They also demonstrated how they are killed. A metal rod is touched to their forhead and a "live" rod is touched to their backside. Much more humane than how they kill cows or chickens. In other words, these little creatures live a much better life and death than the cows and chickens that you're buying from the grocery store or wearing on your feet, etc. Oh, and after they take their fur, they use the meat, guts, etc for your dog and cat food. Ever wonder why canned pet food smells so darn strong? Mink is a musteloid, smelly little buggers with their musk glands!

Now, that being said, over in Asia the animals they are killing are NOT being raised in these conditions! It is a brutal, messy business. And yes, I learned when I worked at the fur salon that those "raccoon" collars on leather jackets are really shepherd. It's been around for years! You're much better off, if you like the look of fur, the buy a coat with a FARM RAISED fox collar. I'm not against fur at all, I have a closet full of them, but it should be as humanely raised as possible. Only free range chickens in my fridge too and our beef comes from a farm here in Western Washington where we know the owner and his wife.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with this information, but I think it's always good to have an inside scoop, so to speak.

 

[Laura]

I hope I haven't offended anyone with this information, but I think it's always good to have an inside scoop, so to speak.

It is good to know how we obtain meat/leather/fur, etc. from animals, and then leave it up to individuals to decide what they approve/disapprove of. Unfortunately, a lot of people are kept in the dark about the practices of the meat industry in this country. They pick up a few chicken breasts at the supermarket and don't put another thought into it. And why should they think about it? People believe that the chickens they eat roam around a chicken coop scratching for bugs, they think pigs are outside playing in the mud.

And it's not only meat and leather and fur. That cute puppy in the store, where did it come from? That lotion you're buying, was it needlessly tested on an animal? Those eggs--does it say "cage free" on the box? What kind of life does a circus elephant have? Not everybody knows about the issues behind these things.

http://www.hsus.org/

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A metal rod is touched to their forhead and a "live" rod is touched to their backside.

That sounds very gentle. In reality, however, mink are killed by anal electrocution so as not to damage the pelts. That means a rod rammed far up their butts followed by a lethal shock.

The realities of fur farming: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/programs/fur/fur-farms.html

 

[Meezers]

I don't know how I feel about this issue.

I don't wear fur...unless you count carrying a cat on my shoulders. But then I don't live in Siberia either....

I don't eat veal and am thinking about giving up my one lamb chop meal a year.

I would like to be able to buy all my meat and vegetables from someone I know but that is just not an option at this time....I do wonder about the cattle and poultry that I buy....I don't agree with what is done but just not ready to become a vegan yet....

It would be nice if we could argue emtional issues with logic...but that just doesn't work in the real world.

 

[Cindyluwho]

That sounds very gentle. In reality, however, mink are killed by anal electrocution so as not to damage the pelts. That means a rod rammed far up their butts followed by a lethal shock.

The realities of fur farming: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/programs/fur/fur-farms.html

That is a very melodramatic way to put it but is "literally correct". The metal rod that is touched to their rear hole (trying to be "pc" here) is the conductor for the electricity so it is as quick as it can be. Death is never pleasant for any animal or human but compare it to chicken factories and cattle stations and you'll see an immense difference. I believe that everyone who consumers meat, wears leather or fur, etc. should visit slaughter houses of all kinds of animals. It doesn't have to mean that you won't ever eat meat again, it just means that you'll be more aware and may choose to buy your meat from local farms where the slaughtering of the animals may be done one on one and be done more humanely. And I truly believe that before people step up on a soapbox and give their opinion, it should be an educated opinion. Of course, that's not the way it is in everyday life but I believe that's the way it should be. Pea-n-me took the time to look up the info on a website and get an educated view, not everyone takes that kind of time before forming an opinion.

 

[Beth76]

I was reading one of those Touch-and-Feel books to my son. You know the ones that have different textures for the kids to touch. Well, this one was about horses and had a few different types of "fur" to touch. After reading this thread the other day and then looking at this book, I had a bad feeling. I turned the book over and it was made in, you guessed it, China. Oh gosh, I don't even know what to make of this.

 

[Planogirl]

China might theoretically have the right to do as they wish in their own country but we have the right to not buy dog or cat fur. We also have the right to protest the torture of animals anywhere IMO. And it being Alec Baldwin who's talking about it is irrelevant in my view.

 

[cardaway]

So the solution is what? Buying products made in the USA with synthetics?

The manufacturing of sythetics creates huge amounts of polution and waste products. Guess who suffers the most from those...

Wildlife (Animals).

For others who are truly concerned... In reality, however...

The reality is that people can be concerned without having the same concerns as you.

 

[DawnCt1]

Actually, Dawn, I think what you are really saying is that you don't need Alec or Heather to spill more of your venomous, Sino-phobic rhetoric. You are a bigot and a racist.

Deb, I don't know if you are of Chinese decent or you just have adopted your child from that country or whatever your situation is. But to accuse me of being venomous and sino-phobic because I find these particular animal abuse practices abhorant is PRETTY OVER THE TOP! Being cruel, skinning animals alive is not a genetic trait but a learned, cultural behavior. One can have control over that. Just because you have a "connection" with China, does that make them above criticism in your book? Maybe you need to "get over it" and remove those rose colored glasses. Edited to add; I am not the only poster in this thread that is repulsed by this practice, in case you haven't noticed.