does this itinerary violate the jones act

[jack87891]

i would like to take the 5 night San Juan to FLL repositioning cruise and then go on the Fll to Bahamas cruise leaving later that day. i have read about the Jones Act and i think this itinerary isn't allowed. is that correct?

 

[jack87891]

i would like to take the San Juan to FLL 5 night cruise and then go on the FLL cruise to the bahamas later that day. i seem to remember something about the Jones act and how it impacts itineraries without foreign ports of call. would this back to back be a problem?

 

[soniam]

Does DCL give notification if it does? Celebrity does notify you, but it can take some days after booking before they figure it out. Not sure if this is a problem or not though.

 

[happycamper47]

i would like to take the 5 night San Juan to FLL repositioning cruise and then go on the Fll to Bahamas cruise leaving later that day. i have read about the Jones Act and i think this itinerary isn't allowed. is that correct?

You just need to get off the ship and go through customs as I understand it. If won't be a back to back.

 

[Sykes]

The PVSA (which is authoritative here rather than the Jones Act) has an exception that allows travel from Puerto Rico to the continental US, so you should be fine here. (Getting off the ship and going through customs alone doesn't relieve DCL of making sure the full trip complies with the PVSA.)

 

[Clarkson U]

Yes you would actually need to pack up tske all your luggage off the ship and technically “go home” then recheck your baggage with porters and go back and check in and back through security and back on board when your new boarding group is called!

 

[AgentMama]

If you book it and its in violation, they'll notify you. I don't believe its immediate.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

It is actually the PVSA - the Jones Act is cargo, PVSA is passenger traffic.

IANAL but because there is an exception for Puerto Rico to FLL, and the FLL cruise is closed loop, you should be fine.

46 U.S.C. § 55104- Transportation of Passengers between Puerto Rico and Other Ports in the United States A vessel that is not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade may transport passengers between a port in Puerto Rico and another port in the United States until such a time as a finding is made that a qualified U.S.-flag passenger vessel is available for such service.​

 

[JWelch62]

There are a few experts on here, but as I recall the Passenger Vessel Service Act applies to trips that start and end in different US ports. In those cases you need a "distant foreign port" between the two US ports. This is why you couldn't do Hawaii to Vancouver to Hawaii B2B.

And I was typing this @_auroraborealis_ gave the definitive answer.

It is actually the PVSA - the Jones Act is cargo, PVSA is passenger traffic.

IANAL but because there is an exception for Puerto Rico to FLL, and the FLL cruise is closed loop, you should be fine.

I was searching for Puerto RIco exceptions when you replied.

 

[CM Dad]

There are a few experts on here, but as I recall the Passenger Vessel Service Act applies to trips that start and end in different US ports. In those cases you need a "distant foreign port" between the two US ports. This is why you couldn't do Hawaii to Vancouver to Hawaii B2B.

And I was typing this @_auroraborealis_ gave the definitive answer.



I was searching for Puerto RIco exceptions when you replied.

I don't think Hawaii-->Vancouver-->Hawaii would be a problem, since that combination would start and end in the same US port. My wife and I did the Vancouver-->Hawaii-->Vancouver B2B this past year with no problem.

 

[Marc D]

To determine if any itinerary is legal, you have to look at the embarkation and disembarkation port of the entire trip, meaning all legs combined. If they are different US cities not covered by an exception, the trip is illegal unless a stop at a foreign distant port is included (Curaçao, Bonaire, Aruba or anything south of Mexico for North-American cruises)

In your case, you would be doing a San-Juan - FLL cruise. San Juan has an exception, so the trip is legal. The San Juan exception allows DCL to reposition ships between east coast ports. That’s why Dream will be doing a NYC - San Juan voyage after doing her Bermuda cruises in the fall, and Magic will go there after her stay in New Orleans. Both ships will then head to their home ports in Eastern Florida.

This year however, it’s not possible to book an illegal B2B on those ships, even when combining a lot of legs, because both ships will include a stop to the ABC islands during their San Juan stay. You could therefore do New-York to Fort Lauderdale on Dream between Nov 6 and 20 by combining 3 cruises. It’s also impossible on Magic, regardless of the fact there’s a hole in her schedule after her NOLA run for a possible dry dock, because she will also visit an ABC island.

 

[Marc D]

Yes you would actually need to pack up tske all your luggage off the ship and technically “go home” then recheck your baggage with porters and go back and check in and back through security and back on board when your new boarding group is called!

There’s no loophole in the act based on the behavior of the passenger during turn-around day. They look at where the passenger boarded and finally left the ship to determine compliance with the PVSA. The fact that you go through customs and visit the intermediary port, with bags or not, changes nothing. That’s why DCL and all other cruise lines will prevent you from continuing with an illegal route after booking, by forcing you to cancel one of the legs to render your trip legal.

As I wrote in the other thread, the proposed voyage is legal because of the San Juan exception.

 

[European]

So this combination is allowed as well?

4-10nov NY-San Juan
10-17 nov Southern Caribbean from and to San Juan
17-20 nov San Juan -Fort Lauderdale

 

[Marc D]

So this combination is allowed as well?

4-10nov NY-San Juan
10-17 nov Southern Caribbean from and to San Juan
17-20 nov San Juan -Fort Lauderdale

Yes, that’s the combination I was writing about. I initially wrote Nov 6 but Dream leaves NYC on the 4th (corrected in previous post - inverted the date and length of cruise).

NY to San Juan in itself is legal because of the San Juan exception. NYC to FLL becomes legal because of the Aruba and Curaçao stops in the middle leg.

 

[Darren1969]

I don't think Hawaii-->Vancouver-->Hawaii would be a problem, since that combination would start and end in the same US port. My wife and I did the Vancouver-->Hawaii-->Vancouver B2B this past year with no problem.

I think it was those wanting to do San Diego - Vancouver - Hawaii that fell foul of PVSA.
There was a bill tabled to modify/repeal the PVSA but not sure what happened to it.

 

[holula]

I think it was those wanting to do San Diego - Vancouver - Hawaii that fell foul of PVSA.
There was a bill tabled to modify/repeal the PVSA but not sure what happened to it.

There was also that year when Disney sailed from Seattle and people tried to do San Diego-Vancouver-Seattle and it didn’t meet the criteria.

 

[happycamper47]

There’s no loophole in the act based on the behavior of the passenger during turn-around day. They look at where the passenger boarded and finally left the ship to determine compliance with the PVSA.

Even without the exception, wouldn't the fact that they end up in FLL after both cruises be the control? SJ to FLL, FLL Bahamas cruise back to FLL.. Their final destination remains the same, there is no other US port where they disembark. So it is not using any loophole

 

[ScooterScott44]

Even without the exception, wouldn't the fact that they end up in FLL after both cruises be the control? SJ to FLL, FLL Bahamas cruise back to FLL.. Their final destination remains the same, there is no other US port where they disembark. So it is not using any loophole

Not sure what you are saying here but the start and end point are what matter. The OP is starting in San Juan and ending in FLL. SO the first qualifying question about PSVA compliance is "Does this itinerary start in a US city and end in a different US city?" Technically, yes, this fits that criteria, so now you can start looking for "exceptions/loopholes/caveats" to make this a "legal" cruise.

 

[Marc D]

Even without the exception, wouldn't the fact that they end up in FLL after both cruises be the control? SJ to FLL, FLL Bahamas cruise back to FLL.. Their final destination remains the same, there is no other US port where they disembark. So it is not using any loophole

For the purposes of the act, OP is proposing a San Juan to FLL cruise. The second leg of the B2B is of no consequence in this case since it is a closed-loop cruise. Without the exception, DCL picking up a passenger in San Juan and letting him off in FLL, either at the end of the first or second cruise would be illegal since it is considered a passenger transport between two US ports by a foreign-flagged ship.

 

[happycamper47]

For the purposes of the act, OP is proposing a San Juan to FLL cruise. The second leg of the B2B is of no consequence in this case since it is a closed-loop cruise. Without the exception, DCL picking up a passenger in San Juan and letting him off in FLL, either at the end of the first or second cruise would be illegal since it is considered a passenger transport between two US ports by a foreign-flagged ship.

Thanks