does this happen alot, people who make reservations only to sell then?

[Dean]

Jeannette, why is it wrong for someone to rent what they own. It's not the way I've done things but I can't blame someone who does. It's their's to rent and I don't feel they owe you are I anything as long as they got the reservation that was available to everyone else. The lottery or special season priority list would be different to a certain extent. If they don't get enough to make it worthwhile, they will quit.

 

[newt1912]

Originally posted by Dean
Jeannette, why is it wrong for someone to rent what they own. It's not the way I've done things but I can't blame someone who does. It's their's to rent and I don't feel they owe you are I anything as long as they got the reservation that was available to everyone else. The lottery or special season priority list would be different to a certain extent. If they don't get enough to make it worthwhile, they will quit.

Dean, please remember I am still very new with DVC, having just bought in Jan. and I am still learning so much from these boards. I was so pleased to learn about the Rent/Trade Board and see that there is actually a market for renting out points that a member is unable to use. My hesitation in joining DVC had to do with what do we do with this investment if something in our lives changes and we cannot get to WDW some years because of business, illness, etc.? To learn that I could rent my points to a willing buyer at the going rental rate gave me an added feeling of having made the correct choice with DVC.

Sorry, but what I saw on EBay just bothers me. Perhaps my feelings will change in the future but I sure hope not. I sure hope I never feel it is fair to wait by your phone first thing in the morning 11 months in advance of prime holiday seasons to book your home resort, only to turn around and sell that resort stay to the HIGHEST BIDDER. This is so much different than what goes on in the Rent/Trade area of these boards. What I saw on Ebay was selling prime holiday season vacation to the Highest Bidder.

Hey, I love living in America and I guess in America this type of free enterprise goes. As a DVC member I guess I will just have to learn to accept this practice as something that some members decide to do with their points.

 

[DisneyCrazy]

Originally posted by Dean
The problem is that any rule must be the same for everyone, in this case DVC and CRO would have to follow the same rule

Dean,

I agree with you on the whole renting issue, but I disagree on this statement. The 4% DVD holds is not in member inventory, therefore they would not need to abide by the same rules - correct?

Now I would think the points CRO has from exhanges would need to follow the same rules.

But, I've been wrong before (or so I've been told )...

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by DisneyCrazy
I agree with you on the whole renting issue, but I disagree on this statement. The 4% DVD holds is not in member inventory, therefore they would not need to abide by the same rules - correct?

Now I would think the points CRO has from exhanges would need to follow the same rules.

The point was that the basic chance to rent must be the same, same number of days, firm restrictions, etc. Rules that a system puts on themselves like cancellations, deposits, etc can vary. It's just that DVC can't tell a member they can't rent when they themselves are doing so.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

There is a lot of language in the contracts warning against anyone trying to go up against Disney in the hotel rental business.

Agreed. Trying to claim that it would be illegal for Disney to enforce this language is distorting things a bit and certainly isn['t a stated fact. They may not choose to enforce it, but it is not illegal for them to do so. Continually making reservations at peak times with no intention to stay and with only the intent of renting the points to others could easily fall under the description of commercial use as described in the agreement.

...one would need to be obviously and repetatively renting to trigger this clause

Agreed, when using the term "scalpers", the folks falling under both the description above are the ones I'm talking about. The terms "obviously and repetitively" apply, and I would also throw in during peak times, but that's just because that is probably the most harmful to those using DVC for the intended use of thier own stays.
I don't think anyone here is talking about the occasional renting of points to prevent a loss or recoup a year when vacationing isn't possible, its those setting it up as a regular business venture. I've rented a few extra points to extend a currently scheduled vacation before, and was glad they were available.

While subletting timeshare weeks might be fine with other timeshares where weeks are purchased and exclusions are not described in the purchase agreement, with the DVC point system and the system of balancing of points and seasonal/holiday demand, in my opinion, scalping practices in the DVC point system hurts fellow members, and deprives them of availability that the balance of the point system and design of the model would otherwise have available. Commerical use as described above detrimentally skews the point model. I guess it is like many things, someone tries to take advantage and abuses a weakness or area of lack of enforcement they have found in the system to the detriment of others. Such are the practices of the local pool crashers, whom Disney is apparently not actively enforcing. Just because they get away with it and it's not being enforced, doesn't make it right.

That's probably all I'll have to say on this, I was planning to stop with the last post, but thought some statements were being presumed as facts, that really aren't.

Happy DVC stays, all.

 

[DisneyCrazy]

There are, what, over 1000 rooms available at the three WDW DVC resorts?? How many 'peak period' ressies have been for sale here or on eBay, maybe 10? So 1% of the available rooms are not available to members wishing to stay on points. OF the hundreds of thousands of points in the DVC system how many are used this way? Is this REALLY a pervasive problem, I think not.

 

[Peterd]

DisneyBunny great Post! It reminds me why I would only exchange with other members. I believe in the future, as the economy turns around, the for rent posts will become less frequent. As for your card stating DVC member so you can get all the benefits you deserve, I recently had a discussion with a higher up at DVC. Because of some complaints by members, in the near future only the members themselves will have DVC on their keys, not the people they sell, I mean rent out their points to. I like to forward the posts from renters on these boards to him from time to time to show some of the abuses that should be changed.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Peterd
It reminds me why I would only exchange with other members.

Frankly, I think you give members too much credit. While ALMOST everyone I've dealt with about rental questions have been extremely nice, my experience overall has been more positive with non members than members. The one truly negative I've had was with a member and members seem to be far more willing to low ball on price, at least in my limited experience.

As for your card stating DVC member so you can get all the benefits you deserve, I recently had a discussion with a higher up at DVC. Because of some complaints by members, in the near future only the members themselves will have DVC on their keys, not the people they sell, I mean rent out their points to. I like to forward the posts from renters on these boards to him from time to time to show some of the abuses that should be changed. [/B]

If they can find a way to enforce the rules as written and eliminate the extra benefits for renters, that's very appropriate. The trouble is defining between guests and renters and guests are definitely entitled to all member benefits except the 10% UMP discount and the cash rental discount.

While they may start to enforce this one provision, I can tell you that overall DVC does not care about the renting situation and will not go to great lengths to enforce the appropriate rules much less putting themselves out on a limb by trying to put up any roadblocks. Much of the anti renting sentiment here is just wishful thinking and much is trying to read something into the rules that is not truly there form a legal standpoint. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on it but overall it's more of a legal discussion of what can DVC legally do and within that framework what does the rules say specifically and enforceably. I've already stated what I feel the rules say and DVC could AND COULD NOT legally do if they wanted.