Does owning DVC really save money?

[Dean]

What do you think they will really do with OKW once the DVC contract runs out? Does anyone really think they will knock it down and build something new?

I certainly don't see them running it long term as is. Maybe they'll offer extensions then we can have the discussion all over again in another 10-12 years.

 

[bpmorley]

I certainly don't see them running it long term as is. Maybe they'll offer extensions then we can have the discussion all over again in another 10-12 years.

Personally I like the feel of OKW. I wouldn't mind seeing it stay the way it is. But I remember being told by our guide that they would knock the resorts down when they hit 50 years. I wonder if they meant that for the non-DVC resorts too.

 

[DVC Grammy]

If DVD keeps building new DVC resorts, couldn't that help keep the values up a bit longer in any "older" resort ownerships? Until they actually expire, points could be used at the 7 month timeframe at any then-current DVC place (DL, CR, Hawaii, etc. ).

 

[bpmorley]

If DVD keeps building new DVC resorts, couldn't that help keep the values up a bit longer in any "older" resort ownerships? Until they actually expire, points could be used at the 7 month timeframe at any then-current DVC place (DL, CR, Hawaii, etc. ).

That definitely adds value to older contracts.

 

[Dean]

That definitely adds value to older contracts.

Somewhat. But new sales and ROFR likely add more than simple inclusion in the system just by owning at an "older" resort. I doubt it'll make much different though. Time will tell.

 

[sharp1r]

You are correct of course but I don't think it really applies. Any time someone asks is it worth it, I assume they are talking in relative terms. Of course the comparison is the question. The answer will be different if you are comparing to Disney Deluxe vs Disney Value. And it will be different for on site vs off site. But anyone who doesn't at least consider the cost is either very rich or a fool. As for DVC being worth every penny, that is a personal observation and the answer varies from one to another. Many people actually prefer staying off site and many Disney enthusiasts prefer non DVC options. Plus, one can stay at DVC easily without owning DVC and many times do so for less than the cost of ownership, sometimes far less.

I agree with this statement about the cost. It is relative to me. I know that vacation dollars are financially wasted dollars, but they are in exchange for living life and making lasting memories. We are not looking at this from an "investment" standpoint to make money. It is nice to think you could sell it if necessary or wanted in the future and recoup some or maybe even all of the purchase price, but even if it were less than that, you would have used the purchase for some entertainment at some point. I think the price has to decline as the expiration approaches. After all, you are buying "time", so the less time there is left, the less it is worth.

This is a good discussion. I am glad I asked the question. It seems that everyone has given some thought to this subject, which is what I would expect before making this decision. I don't think any of us would be here if Disney didn't offer something more than simple timeshare points. You also get Disney magic in every vacation, which is intangible.

I know it will force us to go on vacation more, which isn't a bad thing, and that may cost more in the end. What I meant by "does it save money?" was whether it made sense financially to buy it. I received a PM from another member with some figures added up. I thought it was very well thought out and informative. It was information they had used to make their purchase. I tried to add it to this post, but it keeps giving me a "URL" error that I can't find. I will try to post the information some other way when I can, it was useful. Thanks for everyone's input so far.

Spence Harper

 

[jade1]

Buying in to sell later at a profit would be very foolish IMO.

I wont disagree, but it has worked that way for me (thats for sure), and it may (or may not) work that way for the next 5 years. I think the only other thing that is for sure is if you do not purchase DVC and you go to WDW the next 5 years-you will NOT have any way to recover a penny of your accomodations. Even if your purchase goes down you could still recover something, which I think was why this reason was thrown out there for OP to consider.

 

[Dean]

I wont disagree, but it has worked that way for me (thats for sure), and it may (or may not) work that way for the next 5 years. I think the only other thing that is for sure is if you do not purchase DVC and you go to WDW the next 5 years-you will NOT have any way to recover a penny of your accomodations. Even if your purchase goes down you could still recover something, which I think was why this reason was thrown out there for OP to consider.

It was worked that way for me as well but I don't think that has much bearing on this discussion. The highest I paid per point is $54 at BWV. But it will only matter for those willing to pull the trigger and get out. When I sell, I will make a profit and have had the use in the interim. And I plan on actually doing that in the next few years. I'll do a smaller add on at one or more 2054 resort then let my current holdings go. No really because of the points value by itself but for the other benefits and partly due to my emotional attachment.

But buying in now is a MUCH different decision than buying 5 years ago was. The price is 30-40% more and the length of service 5 years less and 5 years closer to the time when things will hit the downside, likely between 26 & 28 years from the end, not that far away for the older resorts. Even for the 2054 resorts, I think we're pretty near the top of the cost benefit curve. My opinion of course.

 

[bpmorley]

Somewhat. But new sales and ROFR likely add more than simple inclusion in the system just by owning at an "older" resort. I doubt it'll make much different though. Time will tell.

I thought it added value in that DVC wouldn't stagnate. I wouldn't be "the same old resorts." Something new that everyone wants to try.

 

[Dean]

I thought it added value in that DVC wouldn't stagnate. I wouldn't be "the same old resorts." Something new that everyone wants to try.

To a degree but it also emphasizes the difference between newer and older resorts including the different expiration. Not a big deal with 40 years remaning but more an issue wiht 25. It was better for VWL, BCV & BWV when the new resorts were less desirable overall, that will change with VAKL and ?CRV. EP would have been better for the value of the older resorts given the same retail price. One thing that could happen is that the prices could go up faster with the new resorts in question than say EP would have. Again, IMO.

 

[MikeSquared]

Although we sold our DVC for other reasons, when we add it all up we stayed for free while we owned it. The profit we made when we sold our 300 pt. at BCV more than covered the maintenance expenses over the years. We did tend to spend allot while we were there, especially at the Epcot F&WF. Some of the dinners we attended were very expensive. But why not, when the accommodations are free it leaves more for the fun stuff!

 

[tomandrobin]

Does owning DVC really save money?

No! But kind of yes?

It does allow you to lessen the overall cost of vacationing in Disney if........
You normally stay on-site,
You stay in moderate or deluxe resorts, for a week, at least every other year,
You require or want larger accomadations,
Don't travel at the peak weeks of the year.

It does make you plan and go more often. You will spend more at the parks and on food then you did before.

We love being in the DVC! We paid for our membership upfront which allows to only worry about the travel, tickets and food. But the biggest thing your are gaining are vacation memories and experiences. For us, those are the things that are worth the cost.

 

[Mtnman44]

I made some newbie spreadsheets to help me visualize the cost differences. Really, considering this is over 35 years, it doesn't add up to much of a differnce financially, although the thought of trying to arrange to rent points each year for 35years at the right place and time makes me tired just thinking about. Anyway, here is what i came up with bottom line. It's a simple calculation and doesn't take into account the time value of money or the opportunity costs associated with the lump up front purchase. It is also assumes a 7 night vacation every year in at the same level of accomodations.

Paying cash every year:
-assumed a $275 total per night cost with an adjustment of 3% inflation each year.
-by year 35 a seven night stay was up to $5,258.92
-Total cost of all 35 years: $116,389.51

Renting points (200) every year:
-assumes a $10 per point costs with an adjustment of 2% inflation each year
- by year 35 200 points will cost $19.61 per point, $3,921.35 for 200 points
-Total cost of all 35 years of renting 200 points per year: $99,988.96

DVC purchase of 200 points:
-assumes purchase @ $85 per point and a 4.69 main fee adjusted for 2% inflation per year.
-purchase price divided by 35 years = approx $485.71 per year
-Each year's vacation "cost" is equal to 485.71 + that years maint fee.
-by year 35, annual cost is $2,324.83
-Total cost for all 35 years of DVC use is $63,894.82

 

[sharp1r]

I made some newbie spreadsheets to help me visualize the cost differences. Really, considering this is over 35 years, it doesn't add up to much of a differnce financially, although the thought of trying to arrange to rent points each year for 35years at the right place and time makes me tired just thinking about. Anyway, here is what i came up with bottom line. It's a simple calculation and doesn't take into account the time value of money or the opportunity costs associated with the lump up front purchase. It is also assumes a 7 night vacation every year in at the same level of accomodations.

Paying cash every year:
-assumed a $275 total per night cost with an adjustment of 3% inflation each year.
-by year 35 a seven night stay was up to $5,258.92
-Total cost of all 35 years: $116,389.51

Renting points (200) every year:
-assumes a $10 per point costs with an adjustment of 2% inflation each year
- by year 35 200 points will cost $19.61 per point, $3,921.35 for 200 points
-Total cost of all 35 years of renting 200 points per year: $99,988.96

DVC purchase of 200 points:
-assumes purchase @ $85 per point and a 4.69 main fee adjusted for 2% inflation per year.
-purchase price divided by 35 years = approx $485.71 per year
-Each year's vacation "cost" is equal to 485.71 + that years maint fee.
-by year 35, annual cost is $2,324.83
-Total cost for all 35 years of DVC use is $63,894.82

This is simliar to what I was PM'd by another member. I tried to post it but it said I was trying to use a URL, which I could not find, so I didn't post it. The numbers were a little different, higher for the DVC total, but the logic was similar. I think some of the above posters are also accurate about if you sell it, you might break even or recoup some of the money spent. You certainly don't have that option if you simply rent or pay for vacations, so that might be the biggest advantage of all, the right to sell if you need or want to.

Does anyone know when the current Saratoga purchase incentive expires? Also, is your "home" resort simply any resort that you hold points at? If that is the case, wouldn't it be better to have small contracts of say 50 points at 4 or 5 resorts to lock in that 11 month window at all of them? I know you would need to buy resale to get those lower point contracts, but would it work that way if you did?


Thanks again.


Spence Harper

 

[sharp1r]

I am going to reply to my own thread, lol. I had searched for the answer to my question about points for the last few days, but I couldn't find it, then I just looked and there a a couple of threads that answer it. You can book out 11 months to any resprt you own points, but you can only reserve up to the point total you have. Then, you would have to wait to that 7 month window to book the rest. If I had a 50 point contract, I could bank this year, then borrow 2008 points to vacation at 150 points in 2007. Then, owning other resort(s) at smaller contract, I could do the same thing, which seems like it should work just fine for an every year or every other year vacation depending on how many total points and resorts you owned. Seems like 3 contracts of maybe 75 or so points at 3 home resorts could give a nice vacation each year, at a different resort, by banking and borrowing. Does this sound correct?

Spence Harper

 

[Disney Doll]

Good information. We are not looking at this as an investment to make money on. Obviously, the investment, in the end, is financially worthless because it expires. We enjoy Disney and that is why we are looking. We know it will cost us money in the end, like a car, but you can't buy memories anyway, so we intend to vacation at Disney despite the costs. The timeshare is one way we are looking at it to possibly save money and/or help us afford to go there more often.

Our last Disney World vacation, we stayed at the Animal Kingdom. I thought the room was too small for our family (5) in the end, so maybe we need a 1 BR or bigger, but we would have needed 2 rooms to stay at the other resorts according to the booking agent we used. It cost us about $4000 to stay there for the week (7 days), not including food and other stuff, so it wasn't cheap. That got us thinking that if we did that a few more times, even at other resorts on Disney property, we would have paid for the timeshare. That doesn't factor in the annual fees, but even if that were $1000 per year, and we could go every other year, we would still be 1/2 of what we did pay to stay last time. At 20k investment, pay off would be in about 10 years, giving us another 20 or so years of reduced cost before it expires. That is my current logic anyway. Does anyone agree / disagree? Are there other factor I need to look at that I don't know?

It always helps to talk to people who have done it before jumping in. There are always things you don't look at or expect, and only someone who has been there can tell you about it. Keep it coming, I'm all "ears", lol.


Spence Harper

Your logic is actually reasonably good, and sort of what we relaized, somewhat after the fact.

We went to WDW on our honeymmon. I wanted ot buy DVC. DH thought we should buy a house first. So, for 6 years we went to WDW once or twice per year, stayed in the onsite hotels, depending on price, discounts, and the "occasion" (anniversary trips warranted a deluxe, regular trips got us a moderate). Finally, in 1997, we bought, and we realized that for what we had spent in the last 6 years of vactioning at WDW, we could have bought the DVC in 1991 and it would have been paid for by 1997! live and learn.

For us, there is more to the investment than the finances. Granted, one has to look at finances, but we also enojy the more relaxed pace of the vacation, we enjoy "spreading out" in the unit, we enjoy the fact that we don't have to come up with the big "chunk of change" to pay for our accomodations. For us, it's much easier to come up with a smaller monthly payment. We have had our DVC initial financing loans paid off for about 5 years now, so all we have is the dues payment. Our total dues payment is somewhere between $1800-$2000 per year, which last year got us 21 days in a 1BR or larger at OKW & BWV. So, about $100/night. Not bad for deluxe level accomodations.

 

[drakethib]

If your goal is to save money, then never go on vacation, never purchase anything you absolutely need, just stay home and work. And when you are old, you will look back on your life and say, why? You only live once, why not take advantage of it while your young, purchase DVC and enjoy many, many years of Disney vacations to come. You can probably guess, I have lived my entire life day to day, week to week; but I try to enjoy it as much as possible even without a huge income. Is my philosophy wrong, could be, but I cringe every time people mention savings and Disney. They just don't go together, and that includes DVC. A Disney vacation is a big expense, no matter how you go about it, but it is worth every penny. This is of course JMO, and I will get down off my soap box now. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Well Said

 

[graygables]

Conceivably, though, you could rent part of your points, yes? Enough to cover your dues for the year, then just be "out" your initial investment which you use the unrented points for your own vacation? I understand it isn't an "investment", per se, but with the proper point/renting management, it seems like a win-win to me.

 

[JandD Mom]

Yes we go to WDW more, but DVC has allowed us to be able to afford to go to WDW more, and stay in deluxe resorts.

It also allows us to bring other family members to have a "grand gathering."

Sure we are going and we are spending money. Would we be able to do this without DVC? Probably not. It just would not have been affordable for everyone without DVC.

So Yes, we are spending more money and going to WDW more. But we are spending far less than we otherwise would have without owning DVC. And we are providing our children and our extended family (and ourselves) with experiences they otherwise would not have available to them.

 

[jarestel]

No. Not in my case. We've spent more on airfare, park tickets, and food than we ever would have had we not joined DVC. But for me, DVC isn't about saving money, but rather spending some wonderful time with friends and family. In that regard I feel I have definitely received more than the mere dollar cost.

Good luck with your decision.