Does DDP hurt regular diners?

[ReallyFunMom]

There's been references to increased prices and smaller portions. Not sure yet if its really true but if it moves that way, visitors not on the plan have a double whammy. And if ADRs are harder to get and wait times longer b/c of increased use in the plan, almost seems like offsite guests would give up and bring a cooler.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Okay, the dining plan doesn't increase prices - the economy does. But portion size, I don't know.

 

[lustergirl]

Portion size is the same no matter what- if you are on the dining plan or paying out of pocket. Nothing changes except for the fact of maybe not being able to book good dinner ressies but that hassle can also be spared if you book asap, getting the dining ressies that you want ahead of time.

 

[Pedler]

There's been references to increased prices and smaller portions. Not sure yet if its really true but if it moves that way, visitors not on the plan have a double whammy. And if ADRs are harder to get and wait times longer b/c of increased use in the plan, almost seems like offsite guests would give up and bring a cooler.

I think it does make ADR's harder to get at some times or at least make the TS places more crowded. We went at the end of August last year during the free dinning promo. For the most part the parks were not crowded problem. We recently watched some video from the last day and even an hour after opening there still wasn't a line for Dumbo. Still that day we wanted to change some things around and for that night we couldn't get a ADR for Chef Mickey's or the Whispering Cafe for anything earlier than 9:30. We may have been able to just walk up and get in but I wasn't going to risk it with the kids. We were able to get a ADR for the Liberty Tree Tavern and that was a big hit and a nice ending to the vacation. But even there on a night when we never waited more than 5 minutes it was filled up with over a 40 minute wait for people without ADR's when we got there.

 

[BlindTyldak]

I've never heard of it leading to smaller portions, but I think it had the effect on seating that they were looking for. My first trip there were CM's out in front of all the TS restaurants letting people know there was seating available. Now of course you have to sign up for seating ahead of time or risk a very long wait. I think prior to magical wishes and other dining plan incarnations they had trouble keeping the restaurants full. They sure don't any more!

 

[ElizabethB]

Quality has declined. We keep hearing that various entrees, mostly lobster apparently, have been removed from the menus. And, the quality of the experience declines immeasurably when every table is full and waiters are running like mad. Two years ago, our kids got so much individualized attention from waiters and waitresses, in particular at the Epcot WS restaurants and at CRT. Last year, we were there during free dining. No such attention, just waiters running like crazy to get appetizer, entree and dessert, plus drinks, on the table for huge family groups that already looked like they'd had way too much food.

Two years ago, the kids loved speaking with Cinzia at Alfredo's. She took time to teach them some Italian words and have her picture taken with them. A lovely waitress at Chefs de France set the boys up at their own table just so they could see Illuminations through the window. David at CRT spent a good deal of time pin trading with the boys and discussing school.

Such attention isn't possible anymore, at least in my experience. So, there's more food but much less magic, IMO.

 

[snowwite]

Can you still make ADR if you are off site? we plan to split the stay and will be off site 1/2 trip.
Thanks

 

[The Sweetness]

Last year, we were there during free dining. No such attention, just waiters running like crazy to get appetizer, entree and dessert, plus drinks, on the table for huge family groups that already looked like they'd had way too much food.

What a terrible thing to say

 

[JimMIA]

First of all, the dining plan was never designed to enhance the dining experiences of "regular diners." It was designed to bring people into Disney lodging and restaurants, and it's been a big success.

There's been references to increased prices and smaller portions.

We have made two recent trips: Dec OOP/DDE, and May on the dining plan. We saw absolutely no evidence of either higher prices or smaller portions on either trip.

Not sure yet if its really true but if it moves that way, visitors not on the plan have a double whammy.

If they reduced portions 10%, we'd probably all be better off!

And if ADRs are harder to get and wait times longer b/c of increased use in the plan,

No question that ADRs are tougher at certain times. But it has always been thus. ADRs are tough at Epcot during F&W. ADRs are tough at Epcot during the holidays because of the CP dining packages. And now, ADRs may be tougher sometimes because of the dining plan. That's a WIN for Disney -- it shows their promotions are working. For us, it just means we have to plan further ahead.

almost seems like offsite guests would give up and bring a cooler.

They are welcome to do that, but they'll have to eat in the parking lot. Offsite guests get their Disney value from their park tickets and all that goes with them. Onsite guests get other benefits: DME, dining plan, free parkiing, etc. Offsite guests choose to stay offsite to save money on lodging -- it's their choice to forgo the onsite benefits. It's not Disney's bad.

Also, offsite guests have the same ability to book 180 days out that onsite guests do. They just can't do the 180+10 (which I have never found to be any benefit at all, FWIW).

 

[Uncleromulus]

Don't think it really "hurts" us regular diners.
But I think it has made many (if not most ) WDW restaurants a lot more crowded than they ordinarily might be. I suspect that many folks on the DDP are folks who might not ordiarily eat "out" at WDW so much, but on the DDP they do.

 

[bicker]

It isn't really clear what is responsible for the fact that some of the finer restaurants are reducing their portion size. It does seem plausible that Disney is doing so to encourage guests to order appetizers and dessert, however, many of the finer restaurants in the country are reducing their portion size to encourage guests to order appetizers and dessert, so I don't think we can really attribute the trend at WDW just to the Dining Plan.

 

[Lewisc]

The popularity of MYW Dining probably contributes to the crowding of the restaurants. It's one of the reasons some of the more expensive entrées were removed from the menu depriving cash guests of options. It was posted that restaurants were reducing portion size as a direct response to the dining plan. One of the posters said the restaurants had the responsibility of getting the food costs in line with what they're being paid. Bicker is right, it's possible some of the restaurants might have done this anyway but clearly desserts and appetizers that were almost large enough to share have been reduced but cash customers are paying the same or more.

 

[mommiepoppins]

i have bee haviing a hard time with my adr

 

[ReallyFunMom]

They are welcome to do that, but they'll have to eat in the parking lot. Offsite guests get their Disney value from their park tickets and all that goes with them. Onsite guests get other benefits: DME, dining plan, free parkiing, etc. Offsite guests choose to stay offsite to save money on lodging -- it's their choice to forgo the onsite benefits. It's not Disney's bad.

Umm, gee, just a thought. Not implying Disney's bad. Just noting that a typical visitor might get discouraged from dining. Maybe because they thought they were Disney smart about PS's and called 2 months out to learn they are ADRs and nothing available when they wanted. Or maybe they just think you can show up and eat and are a little dissappointed to have only CS available so pack some pb&j's for the kids the second day. I'm not saying portions have changed, just read a bit of speculation about it here. If its true, it might be something that goes into the equation when a typical OOP guest looks at how much they paid for what they got and factor in the wait time and how it all compared to their last trip 3 years ago. Restaurants will be full so its not a problem Disney needs to solve. Just might make some more inclined to really go all in or all out. Either stay onsite and do DDP or stay offsite and brown bag it and hit International drive for dinner enroute back to condo.

 

[laceemouse]

Can you still make ADR if you are off site? we plan to split the stay and will be off site 1/2 trip.
Thanks

Yes, anyone can call and make ADR's at the appropriate time. Many local residents eat out at WDW too!

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't think it hurts the cash customer as much as the casual (non-)planner; whether on the dining plan or not, becuase the Plan certainly seems to have increased traffic at table service restaurants. Those customers who don't plan *well* in advance will not be eating at many of the more popular table service restaurants, and there have been times when, say, every TS restaurant in the Magic Kingdom has been fully booked. I'd wager that this is more of a problem for Plan customers. A cash customer can just pay an appropriate amount for a CS meal instead. A DDP customer must either go somewhere else, or use a TS credit for a CS meal.

The one potential problem for cash customers is that restaurants are being under-compensated for DDP customers relative to cash customers. For Disney-owned restaurants, that probably doesn't matter, because it is all one pot of money at the end of the day---the sharp-pencil boys set the prices of the plan so that the right thing happens. For outside vendors, it may matter---the restaurant may not feel able to withdraw from the Dining Plan (and lose all plan customers), and instead consider cash customers a way to supplement the too-low reimbursements from the plan. But, there are enough outside vendors that don't participate that I'm not sure this is that big of an issue. I don't know that there has been that much of a change, though. These places were already expensive. I don't mind reductions in portion size, because they were generally more than I ate in any event.

I typically stay offsite in a pool home, and even onsite, do not purchase the dining plan. It doesn't provide good value for my family's dining habits at WDW. But, I don't begrudge folks for whom it does provide value, and I don't feel as though I'm being shortchanged because of it.

 

[JimMIA]

Umm, gee, just a thought. Not implying Disney's bad. Just noting that a typical visitor might get discouraged from dining. Maybe because they thought they were Disney smart about PS's and called 2 months out to learn they are ADRs and nothing available when they wanted. Or maybe they just think you can show up and eat and are a little dissappointed to have only CS available so pack some pb&j's for the kids the second day. I'm not saying portions have changed, just read a bit of speculation about it here. If its true, it might be something that goes into the equation when a typical OOP guest looks at how much they paid for what they got and factor in the wait time and how it all compared to their last trip 3 years ago. Restaurants will be full so its not a problem Disney needs to solve. Just might make some more inclined to really go all in or all out. Either stay onsite and do DDP or stay offsite and brown bag it and hit International drive for dinner enroute back to condo.

Yes, I agree it probably is discouraging for "typical" visitors, if there is any such animal. I've seen the disappointed faces being turned away from Le Cellier and CRT (!). I've also seen some angry visitors who thought Disney should have anticipated their walk-up and had a table waiting for their party of 19.

The whole WDW experience is very, very complicated because there are so many choices...so many ways to spend money! And Disney wrote the book on what marketing geeks used to call "penetration," which means getting more business from existing customers.

I really feel sorry for first-timers, and we help at least one every visit with some little tip like how to be a monorail co-pilot, or what a FastPass is, etc. The good thing is you can just show up with no planning whatsoever and still have a great time.

But do things which fill the restaurants (and there are many others, in addition to the dining plan) make life more difficult for folks who don't even know they can or should plan? Sure they do.

Disney's hope is that those disappointed people will ask, "Okay, what do I do so I'm not disappointed next time?" And hopefully, some alert CM will tell them about the benefits of onsite.

If there's one weak link in the system, it's that missed marketing opportunity when the unsuspecting and disappointed visitor could be educated by the CM who has the unpleasant task of turning them away. Somebody should take the opportunity tell them they can stay in a Value possibly cheaper than they are paying off-site, AND have FREE dining or very cost-effective dining, AND get DME free, AND have free parking at the theme parks, AND...

 

[JimMIA]

I don't think it hurts the cash customer as much as the casual (non-)planner; whether on the dining plan or not, becuase the Plan certainly seems to have increased traffic at table service restaurants. Those customers who don't plan *well* in advance will not be eating at many of the more popular table service restaurants, and there have been times when, say, every TS restaurant in the Magic Kingdom has been fully booked. I'd wager that this is more of a problem for Plan customers. A cash customer can just pay an appropriate amount for a CS meal instead.

Brian's got a great point. We were last there in May -- which is a slow visitation period -- and just about every day we went to MK, ALL of the TS restaurants were completely booked. We had our ADRs, so we were fine, but we saw a number of irate visitors...and ALL of them were dining plan folks.

I'm sure the Dining CMs suggested ADRs to them when they signed up for the DP, but many of them didn't hear that part of the conversation, because we often heard, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I NEED RESERVATIONS!!!???"

 

[robinb]

I think it's a lot harder to make ADRs with the Dining Plan in place, especially the free dining.

I made an ADR for Alfredos for 8/20 a full 2 months in advance for 3 people and the best time I could get was 7:45 PM. I called last night (6 weeks in advance) to see if Coral Reef was open that same night so I could switch my CR lunch with Alfredos and then go to dinner at CR. There was no availability at Coral Reef that entire evening!

I feel very sorry for the people who will be at WDW with no ADRs at all!

 

[mickeyfan2]

Many local residents eat out at WDW too!

Say it isn't so!