Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[Sandisw]

I had a rental due to go this next week, David asked if I would be willing to cancel and refund, this was before closure was announced, I said I was willing to cancel and rebook but not refund. His employee wrote back thanking me and stated that I would still be paid on the original checkin date. I then cancelled the booking and now awaiting his instructions on any rebooking for the family or another person.

Keep us posted to what happens if you can’t get it rebooked and whether you are still paid, especially now that the resort is closed.

It seems from this thread that some of the changes in withholding that 30% happened after resorts were announced closed! Hopeful for your renters you can get them a new reservation.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

As an update to my situation, David’s paid me the 30% owing yesterday. I had written saying I was not prepared to re rent the points unless they fulfilled the original contract with me and with no guarantee I would get my money even if they are able to re rent. I had a nice personal reply (not cut and pasted standard bits like the last one!) and it has restored my faith in them as a broker. As a bonus, I also spoke to DVC again stating the notification regarding COVID on the website says borrowed points would be returned to original use year and was told that my points will be returned within 30 days. So once they are, David’s have the option to re rent 11 months out again, which I’m sure they will be able to do and refund the original renter without any cost to themselves. If DVC continue to allow wasted points to be used in this way moving forward, then the brokers may remain in business after all.

 

[Sandisw]

As an update to my situation, David’s paid me the 30% owing yesterday. I had written saying I was not prepared to re rent the points unless they fulfilled the original contract with me and with no guarantee I would get my money even if they are able to re rent. I had a nice personal reply (not cut and pasted standard bits like the last one!) and it has restored my faith in them as a broker. As a bonus, I also spoke to DVC again stating the notification regarding COVID on the website says borrowed points would be returned to original use year and was told that my points will be returned within 30 days. So once they are, David’s have the option to re rent 11 months out again, which I’m sure they will be able to do and refund the original renter without any cost to themselves. If DVC continue to allow wasted points to be used in this way moving forward, then the brokers may remain in business after all.

Glad to hear they handled it this way! I am not sure about the brokers because as an owner, you have been made whole, and are willing to re rent your points to help the renter to be made whole,

But, there are a lot of renters that may not be and I am not sure as many will jump back in..at least not in the immediate future,

I even read a post on the Resorts forum where a renter did have CFAR insurance and it does not cover this situation. So, they did what was advised, paid for insurance and is still out money.

Thanks for the update!

 

[McCrae]

Because you have a contract with Davids - the broker to find and facilitate a rental. But you also have a rental agreement (sent to you upon reservation confirmation, check your email. Subject: rental agreement) between you and the renter. It goes...

This electronic agreement is made on __________ by and between _______ ('Renter') and ___________ (together 'Member') by David Mullett ('Intermediary').

Think of it this way. You hire a real estate agent to sell your house. You even sign a contract. But the contract on the house isn’t between you and your agent, it’s between you and the buyer. The agent/broker is just a facilitator and that’s all the first contract is for

I sold a reservation, not a resort stay. No different from someone selling a dining reservation they have made at a top restaurant.

 

[TheWheel]

I sold a reservation, not a resort stay. No different from someone selling a dining reservation they have made at a top restaurant.

Your contract with David's is a "Rental Agreement" not a "Reservation Agreement"

 

[McCrae]

Your contract with David's is a "Rental Agreement" not a "Reservation Agreement"

Not quite I have agreed to supply a number of points and have been paid for supplying points.

 

[TheWheel]

Not quite I have agreed to supply a number of points and have been paid for supplying points.

This is literally the first line of the contract "Please find below your invoice including rental agreement."

 

[Sandisw]

Not quite I have agreed to supply a number of points and have been paid for supplying points.

You can’t sell something that has no value, Points only have value when they are attached to the reservation for a resort stay,

Using your dining reservation, if you paid for it and the restaurant is closed, you think your contract is fulfilled?

Again, owners with rentals can certainly want to stand behind the non refundable aspect of the contract, But then we shouldn’t have owners also demanding that DVC must fix the issue with expiring points when our contract clearly state the rules for those points,

If a renter isn’t entitled to a refund because the resort was closed, and signed a non refundable agreement then why would DVC owners be entitled to having their contracts amended because “this is not just a normal situation”.

 

[dclpluto]

I finally heard from David. Try calling but they wasn’t taking any more phone calls. Phone lines too busy. Sent them a email back saying I will be happy to make another reservation or reservations so they can get their money.

 

[Yinn]

Not quite I have agreed to supply a number of points and have been paid for supplying points.

I'll play along...

Your "Rental Agreement" literally states the following:

1) " in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at Disney's Polynesian Village Resort in a Studio - Standard View to arrive on _________, 2020 and depart on __________, 2020 with a confirmation number of _________________."

If the resort is closed, you no longer have a confirmed reservation. You have a cancelled reservation.

2) This is an agreement to rent points that represent accommodations only.

If you want to bend it to say you rented points out, fine. Those points have to represent accommodations as per the agreement. But the resort is closed and your points no longer represent accommodations.

What else do you want to stomp your feet about?

 

[Cyberc1978]

I'll play along...

Your "Rental Agreement" literally states the following:

1) " in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at Disney's Polynesian Village Resort in a Studio - Standard View to arrive on _________, 2020 and depart on __________, 2020 with a confirmation number of _________________."

If the resort is closed, you no longer have a confirmed reservation. You have a cancelled reservation.

2) This is an agreement to rent points that represent accommodations only.

If you want to bend it to say you rented points out, fine. Those points have to represent accommodations as per the agreement. But the resort is closed and your points no longer represent accommodations.

What else do you want to stomp your feet about?

I don’t know if it is as clear-cut as that. It might be but IMO I do t think it is.

You can argue both ways and as no one here is able to provide legal representation one argument is as good as the other.

 

[fsjking]

Not quite I have agreed to supply a number of points and have been paid for supplying points.

So you supplied the points to David's or the renter? If not, you are voiding the contract you are creating in your argument and need to send the money back.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t know if it is as clear-cut as that. It might be but IMO I do t think it is.

You can argue both ways and as no one here is able to provide legal representation one argument is as good as the other.

Which means to me if you can have this wide of an interpretation that Might require a legal judgement, these contracts will need to be revised in the future,

Its why I think it’s going to impact it because now that we have renters with such a difficult experience, there are going to be a lot more negative comments than in the past.

 

[fsjking]

Which means to me if you can have this wide of an interpretation that Might require a legal judgement, these contracts will need to be revised in the future,

Its why I think it’s going to impact it because now that we have renters with such a difficult experience, there are going to be a lot more negative comments than in the past.

I think that's the crux of this whole argument. The contracts are worded badly and leaves too many loopholes. We can get into the semantics of right and wrong, but the main issue will be what people are required to do. This will be further complicated by the 4th, 5th, and 6th parties(DVC, Insurance Companies, and CC companies) who aren't bounded by the contract doing their own thing.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Which means to me if you can have this wide of an interpretation that Might require a legal judgement, these contracts will need to be revised in the future,

Its why I think it’s going to impact it because now that we have renters with such a difficult experience, there are going to be a lot more negative comments than in the past.

it’s not that I don’t want to take the discussion but since this thread is about something else lets keep it like that and maybe start a new thread about the other subject.

 

[Yinn]

I don’t know if it is as clear-cut as that. It might be but IMO I do t think it is.

You can argue both ways and as no one here is able to provide legal representation one argument is as good as the other.

Oh it’s about as clear as mud. The multiple agreements themselves contradicts itself within the agreement.

There’s just not enough legal backing behind any of it. Money isn’t held in escrow. There’s no signatures on the agreement - an email reply isn’t ironclad enough compared to using a notarized or docusign signature. To sandisw’s point the whole thing will need to be reworked.

I’ve said several times but I think you can make a case for - and against all three parties here. It’s not as clear as I am ____ and I am owed money.

 

[Pluto777]

I received this email today from a broker (not David's) that I have used to rent points, and have some current rentals scheduled with (none for March, though):

Valued DVC Member,
Given the current outbreak of COVID-19 and the impact it’s having globally, we have numerous guests that are reaching out to us with concern about their upcoming Disney trips. We are closely monitoring Disney’s response to the virus and have communicated to guests that we will try to find viable solutions.
With that said, if you have an outstanding reservation that you’ve booked for a guest, there is a possibility that we reach out to you if your guest is concerned about traveling. This correspondence will simply be to see if we can work out a solution for the guests (i.e. moving dates, changing guest lists, etc.).
Rest assured, your payments are not in jeopardy, we will just work to find a solution that works for everybody.
Again, we value you as our members and our priority is open communication with you. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to us.
Take care,

Seems reasonable and I would certainly have no problem with trying to change dates etc. I would never attempt to make a windfall profit from this unfortunate situation.

Amen. This is a time for all of us to try and HELP each other, not take advantage of a tragedy.

 

[Sandisw]

Amen. This is a time for all of us to try and HELP each other, not take advantage of a tragedy.

I think most people on here as owners if they can will work with members, but there is still some disagreement in terms of the three way agreement if this situation changes the legality of who ultimately is responsible.

Owners hangs their hat on the term non refundable and in many instances, this is true. Renters hang their hats on the fact thst the consideration can’t be delivered and that if thst is the case, it voids the contract, The broker is caught in the middle with contract with both that can support both sides,

My own opinion was that the renter should win But there are lots of great points made by people who know a lot about the law that has muddied my own opinion. I am not convinced it’s still not true, but I know can no longer it Is,

 

[McCrae]

So you supplied the points to David's or the renter? If not, you are voiding the contract you are creating in your argument and need to send the money back.

Points are still available to be used.

 

[McCrae]

Amen. This is a time for all of us to try and HELP each other, not take advantage of a tragedy.

I agree and will help reschedule if asked.