Does anyone else stay in an unhappy marriage?

[Lewski709]

Danacara .....WOW...that's harsh.

Prove her wrong MPN. OH and remember, since you aren't giving in so easy...you've become his little challenge, his project or game if you will. You, my dear, will become the prize if you allow this to continue. STOP IT NOW!

 

[danacara]

Better she be pissed at me than she be in bed with him, eh?

- Dana (degree in engineering, job in finance - note I did not say degree in psychology, job in therapeutic social work)

 

[Lewski709]

Valid!

 

[Serena]

Dana, I want a copy of that book. Autographed of course.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Charade]

I'm kind of looking at one of these situations from the outside. I have been befriending a married man who claims to be in a loveless celibate marriage. He is 52 and their son is 20 and in college. We just started seeing each other around in strictly, social situations. I gave him my phone number so he talk to me because he asked for it.

I have grown to be really fond of this person, and I look forward to seeing him in our "social situation" once a week. He recently confessed to me that I have made him have feelings that he hasn't had in years. The weird thing is, is despite our age differences, I am kind of attracted to him. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not a man-stealer, and I would never think of doing anything with him while he is with her.

I do feel guilty just for having really deep discussions with him. He just asked me to go to lunch and calls atleast once a week. I wanted to confess this, even if no one reads it , cause it's started to weigh on my conscience. What would you do if you were me? Break off all contact? Keep hanging out?

Minnie, I beg you to leave this man alone to solve his own problems. This is a very similar thing that happened to my wife. It started as talking and then progressed (downward) from there. She is now with him and we are working toward a divorce. So once again, you aren't doing anyone any good by seeing this man no matter how innocent it apprears now.

Sorry to be so blunt but your message really hit home.

 

[septbride2002]

I am a long time member of the DIS, but changed my name for this thread because I have some RLF's that come here, and would hate for them to know how I feel.

Basically, I yearn for the day that my kids are grown up, and on their own so I can be single again. I would never leave my husband just because I am not as happy as I feel I should be, while the kids are young. We do not have a bad marriage. I think we have settled with each other. He has no sense of humor. I never laugh around him. If we watch something funny on TV, like stand-up comedy, I could be hysterical with laughter, and he will look at me like I have two heads. I have always been one with a great sense of humor, and I love to laugh. I don't think he loves me, and I can say the same about him.

For our anniversary, he got me a card that showed a rabbit and a cat hugging. It said "In our own weird way.." on the inside it said "we work"

To me, that tells me he has settled also. I am not miserable, but it is like I feel like am a strongly independent person being forced to live with a roommate.

If and when the day comes that I am on my own, that will be it, I will be on my own and loving it. I will not be looking for any man. I guess marriage does not work for me. It was something I always yearned for, but I didn't need it. Now, with the kids, I made my bed, I am going to sleep in it, for as long as I have to, so they can have a secure, happy upbringing.

Just wondering if other have BTDT?

The part in bold is B.S. and I will tell you why. You're children are miserable. I am a by-product of an unhappy marriage and let me tell you it is WORSE for your parents to divorice when you are "older and more mature" then it is when you are young. When you are young they make decisions for you. How holidays are spent etc... when you are older it is a constant tug of war with you being the "mature" adult and being put in the middle. You can swear on your first born that would never happen - but it is B.S. it will happen.

Not to mention your children will have to deal with you being unhappy and him being unhappy. Children can sense it - I was 10 when I first realized my parents were unhappy. They didn't divorce till I was 22 and my brother was 18 so we had to endure their unhappy marriage for 12 more years! The constant fighting and bitterness was unbearable so that when we were 16 and got cars we hardly ever came home.

Stop fooling yourself. Divorce is painful no matter what - but your kids shouldn't be made to endure your unhappy marriage.

Sorry to be so blunt.

Dana - need help writing that book?

~Amanda

 

[Jenn Lynn]

You know, with all of these threads lately, I feel like there is so much I need to teach my DD! I mean, who's Mom sat down with her and said, "don't date a married man. Here is what he will tell you to get you into bed with him....." Or "here is what marraige is REALLY like after 5, 10, 40 years."

Dana-start writing that book so I can have a reference/guide for DD! LOL!

 

[Somedaysingleagain]

Ok, here I am...sorry it took so long for me to get back here, but I got called into work this afternoon.

So, first let me thank all of you for the great advice. But I do have to say, I am a bit shocked at how many people feel that waiting for the kids to be older to leave would be worse on them if I left now. Divorce hurts anytime, waiting until they are in their 20's, they can understand the reason's, and not blame themselves. I know some people have mentioned themselves or someone they know blaming themselves for their parents unhappy marriage once they found they stayed together for the kids. This amazes me. I will not have my kids come from a broken home just because I think I should be happier than I am.

My OP must of sounded really depressing, because some of you nice people make it sound like I am truly, deeply miserable, and that is not the case at all. I have a social life away from my DH, we do go away once a year alone, sans kids, usually around our anniversary, and DH and I do share ONE passion, and that is Disney. We love our Disney vacations.

I know deep down we need councelling. Communication is our biggest hurdle. My DH is the poorest communicator I have ever known. He thinks I should be able to read his mind. If I have to confront him about anything, he denies it. To the point where he will blame the kids if he has to. I can't stand the lying. It is for no reason. This has bugged me for years, and I finally found out through his brother that their mom used to blame everything on the kids when they were growing up. So I guess that is all he knows, the kids did it. I tell you though, if the kids tell me one thing, and he say another, I go with the kids story. One part of the councelling that has me worried is I would have to confess my feelings for him, and I don't know if I would want to hurt him like that. I am also a little afraid of what he might say about me. Communication is our biggest problem, but our sex life is it's own problem.

He is the least assertive man I have ever known also. To give you an idea of what sex is like in my house, I feel like a grown woman showing a shy teenage boy what sex is all about. He will not initiate sex at all. I will go weeks without initiating it, just to see if he will "break". The thing is, I end up feeling guilty that he hasn't had it in so long, I will initiate it. He always wants it, he just won't ask for it. I, on the other hand would be happy to live out the rest of my days without it. No big deal. It gets exhausting being the one to always decided when to have it, HOW to have it. Yes, he won't even make a move in the heat of passion. I have to tell him every step of the way what I want.

Part of my fantasy of being single is that he will be as happy as I am as a single person. I might be wrong. But we have at least 15 years to work on our marriage, alot can happen in that amount of time. So who knows where I will be in 15 years. I also think that my desire to be single isn't so much I don't want to be with HIM, but that I don't want to be with anyone. I am truly starting to believe that I was a way too independent person for marriage and all the responsibilty that comes with it. (not counting the kids, they are my life).

 

[caitycaity]

You know, with all of these threads lately, I feel like there is so much I need to teach my DD! I mean, who's Mom sat down with her and said, "don't date a married man. Here is what he will tell you to get you into bed with him....." Or "here is what marraige is REALLY like after 5, 10, 40 years."

my mom and i have become especially close since i've been married, and we talk about this kind of stuff now, but it would have been nice to have a little more guidance when i was younger - even if i know i would have rolled my eyes when she was saying it.

when i was debating whether or not dh and i should get married, i had the, "but sometimes love is not enough" conversation with my mom and she was like, i'm glad you're thinking about this. i guess i should have talked to you more about that kind of thing...

 

[Tiggeroo]

I don't think divorce is wrong. In fact sometimes it's wrong not to get one. But if you are struggling and unhappy and your kids are young you owe it to them to try very hard to fix things first. Divorce brings alot of changes into young kids lives and complicates things quite a bit. My sons are in hs and alot of their friends parents are divorced. And alot of the dads live in different towns from the moms. Most hs kids want to spend their free time with their friends. They also have alot of school/sports/activity commitments. So they don't want to go to their dads on weekends and in the summer. And alot of times the boys I see go into a teen rebellion mode with their moms which leads them to living with the dads who frequently have different rules and values then the moms. (if a teen boy requests it most judges say yes)
So exhaust the other possibilities first. Your dh should be doing this, but since he isn't the ball is in your court. You don't need to get all lovey and romantic. Just try to reconnect as friends first. Watch some shows with him. Try to get him to go to some things with you outside of the house, away from the tv. Even if it's things he likes more then you. Examples might be sporting events, local pub to watch mon. night football, drink a beer eat some hotwings. If things improve with the marriage he might be less snappy with the kids. Remember, as lonely as you are he is too. Guys just deal with lonely differently then women and frequently don't even realize that is the problem. While you are doing this you can also get your financial house in order in the event it doesn't work.
Because you honestly try and try, it might take some time for him to accept this new you, and he doesn't care I wouldn't stay. Again it might take a year, although you should see improvements sooner, because it took things a long time to get to this point.

 

[Lewski709]

I am not going to start a war, but unless you are a child who has been through divorce twice .... once at a young age and once at an older age, how can you say one is worse than the other? Neither is good and both cause a tremendous amount of chaos regarding mother/father relationships and children.

Marriage is work! If you think it's always going to be roses and candy, don't get married because you are in for a real disappointment. We don't need any more statistics. That's MY advice to the singles out there. To the person who said marriage is unnatural, that's hogwash. Plenty of marriages work. Marriage is a life long committment and both parties have to be willing to commit. Listen to the vows carefully. They are truly meaningful!

 

[caitycaity]

Marriage is a life long committment and both parties have to be willing to commit.

and compromise, and right now somedaysingleagain it sounds like you are the one doing the majority of compromising. i truly think talking to dh about this and going to counselling could help (assuming your dh wants to work on it too).

 

[septbride2002]

Ok, here I am...sorry it took so long for me to get back here, but I got called into work this afternoon.

So, first let me thank all of you for the great advice. But I do have to say, I am a bit shocked at how many people feel that waiting for the kids to be older to leave would be worse on them if I left now. Divorce hurts anytime, waiting until they are in their 20's, they can understand the reason's, and not blame themselves. I know some people have mentioned themselves or someone they know blaming themselves for their parents unhappy marriage once they found they stayed together for the kids. This amazes me. I will not have my kids come from a broken home just because I think I should be happier than I am.

My OP must of sounded really depressing, because some of you nice people make it sound like I am truly, deeply miserable, and that is not the case at all. I have a social life away from my DH, we do go away once a year alone, sans kids, usually around our anniversary, and DH and I do share ONE passion, and that is Disney. We love our Disney vacations.

I know deep down we need councelling. Communication is our biggest hurdle. My DH is the poorest communicator I have ever known. He thinks I should be able to read his mind. If I have to confront him about anything, he denies it. To the point where he will blame the kids if he has to. I can't stand the lying. It is for no reason. This has bugged me for years, and I finally found out through his brother that their mom used to blame everything on the kids when they were growing up. So I guess that is all he knows, the kids did it. I tell you though, if the kids tell me one thing, and he say another, I go with the kids story. One part of the councelling that has me worried is I would have to confess my feelings for him, and I don't know if I would want to hurt him like that. I am also a little afraid of what he might say about me. Communication is our biggest problem, but our sex life is it's own problem.

He is the least assertive man I have ever known also. To give you an idea of what sex is like in my house, I feel like a grown woman showing a shy teenage boy what sex is all about. He will not initiate sex at all. I will go weeks without initiating it, just to see if he will "break". The thing is, I end up feeling guilty that he hasn't had it in so long, I will initiate it. He always wants it, he just won't ask for it. I, on the other hand would be happy to live out the rest of my days without it. No big deal. It gets exhausting being the one to always decided when to have it, HOW to have it. Yes, he won't even make a move in the heat of passion. I have to tell him every step of the way what want.

Part of my fantasy of being single is that he wil be as happy as I am as a single person. I might be wrong. But we have at least 15 years to work on our marriage, alot can happen in that amount of time. So who knows where I wll be in 15 years. I also think that my desire to be single isn't so much I don;t want to be with HIM, but that I don;t want to be with anyone. I am truly starting to believe that I was a way too independent person for marriage and all the responsibilty that comes with it. (not counting the kids, they are my life).

Then buck up and go to counseling. I'm sorry to be so blunt - but it aggravates me to see you trying to convince yourself is better for the kids. Whatever. It isn't. Not to mention that you are denying yourself the chance to find true happiness. Either with your husband or with someone else. I am 25 my Dad is 55 this year he got sick, really sick, and I was so angry with my Mom for leaving him just 3 years ago because now I had to make the touch choices for him if he had to go into surgery and something bad happened. Possibly he could have met someone else 12 years ago and had been happy. I was angry at her for leaving my Dad and basically making me have to deal with him being sick by myself. Irrational? Yes - but I couldn't help the way I felt. When my parents split up it was awful and we as children never REALLY understand the reason. Especially when you put up the facade for so many years. The worse part - having to explain to other parents who thought my parents were "happy."

Go to counseling and try to make your marriage work. Either that or seperate put pretending to be something your are not will not fool your children. If you would like further information about how awful it was for me, my brother, my DH, and some of my friends - please PM me.

~Amanda

 

[Lewski709]

going to counselling could help (assuming your dh wants to work on it too).

Counseling brings a third party to the table which will allow your DH the freedom to speak things you may have never heard before, trust me. It can be very very good.

Many places of employment cover sessions of counseling and after so many insurance picks a portion of the costs up. You should check into it. If you are willing to go to a male counselor, it may make your DH more comfortable and open up.

Again

 

[Cinderellagrl]

I will not have my kids come from a broken home just because I think I should be happier than I am.

They will still have both their parents, just not together. The kids can and will sense the tension between you and your husband. They will not necessarily be better off with the two of you together. They will, however, be better off if they see both of their parents truly happy, even if that means apart.

How old are your children? When they are old enough to really understand that their parents aren't happy, there is a possibility they could start to blame one of you for the unhappiness in your marriage. That could cause a great rift between you & your children or your husband and your children.

 

[septbride2002]

I am not going to start a war, but unless you are a child who has been through divorce twice .... once at a young age and once at an older age, how can you say one is worse than the other? Neither is good and both cause a tremendous amount of chaos regarding mother/father relationships and children.

Marriage is work! If you think it's always going to be roses and candy, don't get married because you are in for a real disappointment. We don't need any more statistics. That's MY advice to the singles out there. To the person who said marriage is unnatural, that's hogwash. Plenty of marriages work. Marriage is a life long committment and both parties have to be willing to commit. Listen to the vows carefully. They are truly meaningful!

Good Questions. Most of my friends parents are divorced and DH's are also. Some when they were kids and some when we were older. We all sat around one night talking about our experiences and the ones who were younger said they got the better deal.

When you are 20 and getting a divorce parents tend to use children more as a sounding board with this "Your father....or Your Mother..." conversations. When you are young they protect you from that - usually. Again I state things like living arrangements, holidays, birthdays are decided for you when you are young. Some of my friends at 17 had to choose which parent to live with - how do you think that made the other parent feel? How much stress do you think that gave the 17 year old? My brother and I refused to choose between our parents - he went away to school and I moved into an apartment with my boyfriend (who I later married). These were not easy decisions and put me and my brother into a financial windfall. Holidays - all families have their traditions - now you are trying to figure out where you are going to go and when. What time will you open gifts with Dad? And what about Mom? It is worse then having in-laws.

Neither one is the best arrangement obviously. The stress of being 22 and watching your parents divorce is one that is hard to describe. I had to watch the house I grew up in be sold, I had to help move both my parents into their respective apartments, I had to teach my Dad how to grocery shop and pay bills. I had to listen to my Mom talk about going out dancing and being on dates. It is a very bizzare world.

~Amanda

 

[Somedaysingleagain]

Minniepumpernickel..I wanted to share my sister's story with you.

She was 19 and worked at a local supermarket. She befriended a co-wprker, and became her babysitter. The co-worker had a 3year old daughter. Through their friendship, obviously because she babysat, she met the woman's husband. Things started to look suspicious, and soon we discovered my sister and this man were having an affair. His wife was pregnant. He left her when she was 8 months pregnant for my sister. My sister, who was once friends with this poor woman now had nothing nice to say about her. The woman would call my mom and cry on her shoulder. My mom was so mad at my sisterm she talked it out with this woman. My siater complained to me one day about her calling our mom. I asked her what was she supposed to do, she is 8 months pregnant and her husband left her. My sister's brilliant response? "get over it" This woman, according to my sister was supposed to "get over it."

Not too much later, my sister found out she was pregnant. So, her son is 18 months younger than his half sister. They got married and had another child. Things seemed to be going good. My brother's would find my BIL out in bar rooms with other woman, but could not prove anything, and when they mentioned it to my sister, she would not hear it. They were lying,ect.

The day finally came when he left her. Any guesses to why he left her? One guess...... yup, another woman. He worked with her. She was married also. the funny thing is, my sister was SHOCKED. I had to laugh. I am sure he had cheated on her their entire 9 years of marriage, only he got caught. When he got caught, rather than try to work it out with my sister, he just moved on. I am sure he would still be with his 1st wife he he never got caught with my sister.

No matter what this guy tell you, he is still married. If he truly is telling you the truth, then before this relationship goes any further, he needs to leave his wife. If he it truly worth waiting for, than you can wait for the divorce to be final. But then if he hooks up with you, could you ever truly trust him? I am a strong believer in "once a cheater, always a cheater" and I know if I got involved with someone who was married when I met him, they guy would not be able to look crosseyed at a woman without me wondering why he was looking at her like that.

I hope you take all the advice you have been given. I may seem hard now, but if you can break away from him, in the future you will look back and thank God you were able to do it.

 

[leighe]

I am going to be very blunt. Obviously, anyone who wants may disagree with me - but . . . . here's what I think.

People are not prepared for what marriage is really like. I know there are people out there who have great marriages, but I don't believe that fabulous marriages happen without A LOT of hard work.

Since I've been married - 2 and a half years - it's like I've been invited into this club. I am a teacher and I can name probably 20 other women I teach with whose husbands have cheated. We have a teaching staff of about 90 - probably 2/3 of which are women. I am now privy to all these awful marriage horror stories. Why didn't anybody tell me this before? (Of course, the answer is - I wouldn't have believed it anyway.)

I had the huge storybook wedding - all the showers, parties, china, crystal, extravagent honeymoon - everything. My mom sat me down before my wedding and gave me this big speech. The marriage is the important part, you have to be willing to compromise, marriage is hard work, etc. She really tried to prepare me. Of course it all flew over my head. We are in love, how could we ever be unhappy? How do you have to work at something that is so right, so natural?

Well, we made a MESS of our first year. He had an affair. We live in a small town. It became very public. It was awful. I had no idea what to do. It is hard. I don't even know why. It's even harder because we were supposed to be young and fun and have the perfect life. One day one of my new teacher friends who I had gotten really close to (she had been married about the exact same amount of time) came into my classroom and said, "I hate being married." I said, "me too" and we had an instant bond.

OK - this has really rambled. The point is - I don't hate being married. I was just in no way prepared for the realities of it. I'm kind of glad DH and I had such a rough time in the beginning. It taught us to perservere and helped us understand what was really important in life. I just hope I can do a better job of helping my children understand what it is really like to share a life with someone else.

Sorry to ramble but it felt soooo good to say all that!

 

[Lewski709]

Again I state things like living arrangements, holidays, birthdays are decided for you when you are young. Some of my friends at 17 had to choose which parent to live with - how do you think that made the other parent feel? How much stress do you think that gave the 17 year old?

But when the younger kids got older and had lived with the one parent most of their life, some (most) of them decided to "try" it out at the other parents house when they could vocalize themselves. That makes it stressful and hurtful for the children and parent who is losing the child, maybe temporarily.....maybe permanently.

Holidays - all families have their traditions - now you are trying to figure out where you are going to go and when. What time will you open gifts with Dad? And what about Mom? It is worse then having in-laws.

Not all families have traditions. Throw Moms, Dads, MIL's, FIL's, StepMIL's, StepFIL's, StepSIL's, StepBIL's and all into the picture oh and just when you think you've covered all the bases, you have kids. Whether you are of a young age or an older age, it isn't easy and Holidays are no picnic.

The stress of being 22 and watching your parents divorce is one that is hard to describe. I had to watch the house I grew up in be sold

No different than age 8, 9, 10, etc....

I had help move both my parents into their respective apartments

Mmmmmmm, still no different

I had to teach my Dad how to grocery shop and pay bills.

Different and honestly, sad.

I had to listen to my Mom talk about going out dancing and being on dates.

Sorry you had to do this, but I'd rather do this than see my mom unhappy.

Sounds like you may have some anger about the whole thing. I'm sorry you felt like you took on a burden you shouldn't have had to. Counseling may be good for you, too.

 

[Crankyshank]

It really sounds like your husband might be depressed. I have to agree regarding counselling. You'd be amazed how much having an unbiased 3rd party to listen and offer suggestions helps. Take it from someone who knows.