Does anyone else feel like a criminal when going through TSA?

Does anyone else feel like a criminal when going through TSA?


  • Total voters
    112
Did you actually read the article?
* All vehicles go through security before entering grounds
* Random requests to open email/facebook accounts of passengers
* Departing passengers questioned before even getting to check in desk
* Luggage and body searches possible
* Arrive 3 hours before your flight

This is Tel Aviv airport (and I'm assuming others).
Tel Aviv yearly traffic: 6.1 Million (Source)
That would put in #58 in the US (Source)

THAT'S what you think would make things "better"?
Other than the email, all of this is already happening at LAX. Israel has a little issue with their neighbors that makes this absolutely necessary. The US does not. If you wanted to profile, you could put a lot fewer people through a much higher level of scrutiny in less time. But no, we go through the motions with everyone instead.
 
Ok. So what should be done to catch the ceramic edged weapons/explosives?
For edged weapons, nothing. Let's harden the door into the cockpit further and let people take their pocket knives with them. I don't know if you flew much in that year after 9/11, there was always a group of people, generally youngish men but not always, that had an unspoken agreement that a hijacking wasn't going to happen on that flight. I think that mentality is still there, edged weapons aren't going to hijack an airliner again.

For explosives, I'd be amenable to passive chemical sensors that alert on explosive compounds, much like those the TSA is using in conjunction with the DC Metro in parts of their system.
 
Totally agree. Do you want to rely on that though?
Like it or not, we already do.

TSA is whatever it is, but it's all reactionary. We take off our shoes because one thing happened, we can't bring on fluids because another thing happened, and so on and so on. That's not going to stop the next thing because we don't know what that is. I go through the motions like everyone else and follow the directions and restrictions as closely as possible. Not because it makes me or anyone else safer, but so that I can do my part to keep the line moving. There is no sense in putting up a fuss.

As an aside, here's a dumb thing I experienced; DD plays lacrosse and was headed to a tournament out-of-state. DS also plays for UCSB and had just gone on a plane with his stick so we knew the drill; you can't bring the stick on the plane, it has to be checked in your bag. We saw a Mom for a girl on another team absolutely livid as she went through TSA because they had carried the stick on, bags already checked. She had to go back to the counter and check the stick through somehow. I don't know if you've ever held a lacrosse stick - they are very light. Nobody is going to do any damage with a lacrosse stick.

MEANWHILE...
We saw several people carrying on light sabers from DL SWGE on the same plane.

Is a 15-16 year old girl with a lacrosse stick really a bigger threat than a tourist with a light saber? According to TSA, that's where the line is drawn. Makes no sense to me.
 
OK, I'll bite. Here's what I'd like to see:

Pre-9/11 security. Metal detectors, bag x-rays, questions about if you packed your own bag and if you left it unattended. Anyone allowed to go airside.

PLUS:
Bomb-sniffing dogs at all airports, randomly checking both bags and people.
All checked bags thoroughly screened.
Random chemical tests for explosives (bags and people).
Air marshals on random flights.
Further hardening of cockpit doors.

And though I don't think it's necessary, I'd be OK with actual, highly trained behavioral profilers questioning people as needed. Don't really care if it's random, if it's based on suspicious behaviors in the airport or travel history or whatever. I don't mind answering basic questions from someone who actually knows what the heck they're doing.

The reality is, the 9/11 hijackers used box cutters. Because, as has been alluded to upthread, there was a general common wisdom about terrorists...that they didn't want to die, they wanted money or prisoner releases or to make some political point. So you go along, keep them happy, sit in some cell or warehouse for a few days while two countries negotiate, and you go home alive. 9/11 changed all that, and NOBODY is going to let a couple of guys take down an airplane with box cutters again. We need to stop overreacting to previous threats and start using our common sense here. And I've said that every day since 9/11.
 

I have figured out there are a few things that seem to prompt the search. I have thick-ish curly hair. If I wear my hair up in a messy bun, they will always ask me to take my hair down. If I already have my hair down, they always feel the need to touch it. I'm sure there are people who smuggle things in their hair, so I am sure that's why. The groin pat downs are typically if I am wearing a long flowy skirt. Once I was wearing leggings underneath and offered to take off the skirt to make it easier to check, but I think once I had been flagged they had to physically check.
I have the same issue with my hair. I get a hair pat down about half the time. I try to remember not to have it in a pony tail or barrettes in. That seems to trigger it more for me.
 
Don’t like TSA? Simple, don’t travel by air.
Or we could actually improve travel, make things safer and not expose people to potentially harmful radiation for no tangible gains.

You know that you could say that about a lot of things right? I'm sure I could hit a few of your personal beliefs but I'd end up with points again for doing so.
 
Or we could actually improve travel, make things safer and not expose people to potentially harmful radiation for no tangible gains.

You know that you could say that about a lot of things right? I'm sure I could hit a few of your personal beliefs but I'd end up with points again for doing so.
Sure, I don’t like the policies of a few businesses and industries so I don’t patronize them.

Feel free to hit a few of my personal beliefs if you know what they are. I won’t cry. Have you received points for responding to me before? If so, I certainly didn’t squeal.
 
Don’t like TSA? Simple, don’t travel by air.
I don't, when I can possibly avoid it. But that doesn't mean I don't get to think it's insane. Or that I don't get to worry about the freedom we've given up in the past 20 years. The whole point of terrorism isn't to kill people. It's to make them afraid. And they won that battle a long time ago and are continuing to win it every day.
 
Sure, I don’t like the policies of a few businesses and industries so I don’t patronize them.

Feel free to hit a few of my personal beliefs if you know what they are. I won’t cry. Have you received points for responding to me before? If so, I certainly didn’t squeal.
If this was a policy of the industry I would agree, but it's not. It's a government fiat. The government isn't an industry that we have a choice in patronizing.

I don't think I've gotten points for responding directly to you, but I know I would get points and this thread shut down if I started down that road.
 
I don't, when I can possibly avoid it. But that doesn't mean I don't get to think it's insane. Or that I don't get to worry about the freedom we've given up in the past 20 years. The whole point of terrorism isn't to kill people. It's to make them afraid. And they won that battle a long time ago and are continuing to win it every day.
I'll bite. What freedom was given up? I agree TSA and airport security has been reactive. I personally like some of the ideas presented in this thread. I'm not sure TSA has been successful, but a) it's kind of hard to prove a negative b) it's the current system we have (and as others have said other countries are MUCH stricter in their security methods), and c) I don't see it as giving up "rights" or "freedoms".
 
I'll bite. What freedom was given up? I agree TSA and airport security has been reactive. I personally like some of the ideas presented in this thread. I'm not sure TSA has been successful, but a) it's kind of hard to prove a negative b) it's the current system we have (and as others have said other countries are MUCH stricter in their security methods), and c) I don't see it as giving up "rights" or "freedoms".
Right to privacy. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. Innocent until proven guilty. And from the airlines' perspective, the right to set their own standards and business practices.

I have no idea how old you are, but I'm assuming at least old enough to remember life pre-9/11. So think back. Really try to remember who you were and how you felt as an American on January 1st 2001. Now tell that guy that in a few months we're going to start down a path that's going to end up with full body scans and invasive patdowns and tiny liquid bottles, just to get on airplane. Would pre-9/11 you REALLY not have seen that as an incredible encroachment on basic civil liberties? Or have you just become so conditioned to it in the past 20 plus years that you now see it as normal and okay?
 
Right to privacy. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. Innocent until proven guilty. And from the airlines' perspective, the right to set their own standards and business practices.
Here's why I disagree with you... it is a CHOICE to purchase an airline ticket, it's not a right. Don't want to go through TSA? Don't fly. There's trains, busses, cars, bicycles, and your own two feet. Need to get there fast? You can hire a private plane.

Ever go through a DUI checkpoint in a car? How about one of the "citizenship" checkpoints hours from the Mexican border?
I have no idea how old you are, but I'm assuming at least old enough to remember life pre-9/11. So think back. Really try to remember who you were and how you felt as an American on January 1st 2001. Now tell that guy that in a few months we're going to start down a path that's going to end up with full body scans and invasive patdowns and tiny liquid bottles, just to get on airplane. Would pre-9/11 you REALLY not have seen that as an incredible encroachment on basic civil liberties? Or have you just become so conditioned to it in the past 20 plus years that you now see it as normal and okay?
As I said earlier, while I do remember being able to go "airside" without a BP, I also remember security (granted, just metal detectors, but I do remember them).
 
Here's why I disagree with you... it is a CHOICE to purchase an airline ticket, it's not a right. Don't want to go through TSA? Don't fly. There's trains, busses, cars, bicycles, and your own two feet. Need to get there fast? You can hire a private plane.

Ever go through a DUI checkpoint in a car? How about one of the "citizenship" checkpoints hours from the Mexican border?

As I said earlier, while I do remember being able to go "airside" without a BP, I also remember security (granted, just metal detectors, but I do remember them).

Sure, it's a choice to buy an airline ticket. But we also have the right to freedom of movement and, like I said before, companies also have the right to set their own standards and procedures. So the TSA infringes on both individual rights and corporate rights.

I don't think DUI or citizenship checkpoints are a fair comparison, because you can still DRIVE around them. You don't have to take an entirely different mode of transportation. Though I'm not a big fan of either.

My dad remembers going airside, and all the way onto planes, with zero security. I don't, but I think there is a WORLD of difference between walking through a metal detector manned by a private security company and going through a body scanner and/or invasive patdown by a pseudo-paramilitary government agency. I can't believe you can't see that difference.
 
No, I’ve never been bothered by the TSA process other than the sometimes very long lines.

Occasionally I wish some cute TSA agent WOULD cop a feel. ;)
 
Remember a few years ago people who came through with candy from the Halloween party, TSA was testing every piece?

We had one trip with our DS and family,we had to remove any food from carryon. Both my DDIL and myself had enough food for small country. No liquids, but chips, cookies, candy, crackers……. We had no idea. Last minute, digging all the stuff out.
 
Sure, it's a choice to buy an airline ticket. But we also have the right to freedom of movement and, like I said before, companies also have the right to set their own standards and procedures. So the TSA infringes on both individual rights and corporate rights.
OK, please show where "freedom of movement" includes the method of movement.
I don't think DUI or citizenship checkpoints are a fair comparison, because you can still DRIVE around them. You don't have to take an entirely different mode of transportation. Though I'm not a big fan of either.
You don't have to take an entirely different mode of transportation though. You can charter a plane and not go through TSA. You can learn to fly yourself. Yes, you can go around the checkpoints, but that's taking you out of your way (adding time and money), sort of like the alternatives I suggested to flying.
My dad remembers going airside, and all the way onto planes, with zero security. I don't, but I think there is a WORLD of difference between walking through a metal detector manned by a private security company and going through a body scanner and/or invasive patdown by a pseudo-paramilitary government agency. I can't believe you can't see that difference.
There is not a world of difference when it comes to rights IMO. You're fine with being stopped and inspected (the private security company with a metal detector), but not when it's being done by the government? And why do you say "pseudo-paramilitary"? What about TSA is close to military? Pseudo-police?
 
UP against the wall, feet back, and spread um….

How could anyone not feel like a criminal…

However, my personal favorite.

One Federal agency, the TSA, has different policies and procedure for different locations.

How does that work?

Make me fly privately when ever I can!
 
As an aside, here's a dumb thing I experienced; DD plays lacrosse and was headed to a tournament out-of-state. DS also plays for UCSB and had just gone on a plane with his stick so we knew the drill; you can't bring the stick on the plane, it has to be checked in your bag. We saw a Mom for a girl on another team absolutely livid as she went through TSA because they had carried the stick on, bags already checked. She had to go back to the counter and check the stick through somehow. I don't know if you've ever held a lacrosse stick - they are very light. Nobody is going to do any damage with a lacrosse stick.

MEANWHILE...
We saw several people carrying on light sabers from DL SWGE on the same plane.

Is a 15-16 year old girl with a lacrosse stick really a bigger threat than a tourist with a light saber? According to TSA, that's where the line is drawn. Makes no sense to me.

They needed a Disney themed lacrosse stick, problem solved. :)
 












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