Doc office wants CC on file??

[kaytieeldr]

Most of the time when I have left a credit card on file with a doctor the paperwork said that you agree to allow them to run an authorization on your card to insure validity. Disney does the same thing when you check in and attach a credit card to your account. They don't charge anything, but run the number to make sure it is good.

Interesting... so, patients without any type of plastic are out of luck?

 

[NYCDiane]

To insure that they have some way to recieve payment before they treat you, should your insurance not be good, or not cover what they say they will.

That's what the co-pay is for. And it will be paid before I walk in the exam room. As far as them receiving payment? That's what the insurance is for. If they have an issue with billing, they need to address it with the insurance company not the patient unless the patient intentionally gives bad insurance info. The doctor's contract is with the insurance company.

Most of the time when I have left a credit card on file with a doctor the paperwork said that you agree to allow them to run an authorization on your card to insure validity.

I have NEVER been asked to do this at ANY doctor's office which is why I found it so strange.

Disney does the same thing when you check in and attach a credit card to your account. They don't charge anything, but run the number to make sure it is good.

All hotels do this in the event you trash the hotel room or order movies or room service or decide to stay longer. I've never had a doctor request to hold a credit card "on file".

If you are that opposed to them having your info and are willingto lie to them to get an appointment you are not likely to set up any degree of trust with these people. I would want to be able to trust my doctor. Especially a specialist. Why in the world would you use a mnoney order to pay a doctor bill?? Are you that concerned about them having any info on you??

I didn't "lie" to them... I gave her my debit card info but, after thinking about it and after speaking to my insurance company, I decided to cancel the card because it's not a "routine" thing for docs to keep your cc on file to charge you for things you shouldn't be charged for. The reason I was that upset about it?? The person on the phone (office manager?) was so adamant about having the card number and insisting that I couldn't get an appointment without it, etc.... Very strange if you ask me.

As I stated in my earlier post, I'm using a money order because I don't want them having my checking information. She stated they will "just charge" your card if there is any excess billing and would only call to let you know ahead of time if they're going to charge more than $250. Do you think I want her having access to my checking account to "just charge" things to my account???? I'll say it again: If there are billing issues, the provider's office is supposed to address it to the insurance company, NOT the patient.

I plan on having a talk with the doctor himself about all this before my exam starts. If he comes off the same way as his office manager did, I won't be seeing him again.

 

[tcp_dpm]

The doctor does have a contract with the insurance company and with that, we do agree to accept the negotiated fee and can not charge above and beyond that.

All of the examples that I gave involved situations where charges would be what the insurance did not cover including no show fees, bounced checks and insurance fraud.

The pre-authorization issue is directly with the insurance company. If you call them yourself and ask directly..."IS PRE-AUTHORIZATION A COMMITMENT TO PAY?" They themselves will tell you "NO". If they don't, they are not telling the truth, because as a provider, this is the last sentence they tell you when you are obtaining pre-authorization.

There are services that all doctors offer that ARE NOT covered by insurance. Insurance is not a get out of jail free card. It does not cover everything and this is not just in reference to plastics. They(insurance companies) are a business as well and they will look for any reason to deny charges thereby saving themselves money. Orthotics are traditionally not covered by alot of insurance companies. Other specialties have newer medications that aren't covered because they are in the investigational stage, injections, etc.

To clear something else up, next time you get an explanation of benefits (EOB) from your insurance company you might want to look very closely at it. The CoPay IS NOT on top of our fee. If the insurance approves $100, and your copay is $35, we don't make $135, we get $35 from you and $65 from the insurance company.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind and don't trust the doctor already. But you are asking him to immediately trust you. This is a two way street with trust being what that street is paved with. If you feel that your lack of trust in his financial practices will cloud your trust of him as a practitioner, then I would cancel the appointment and seek care elsewhere. Don't waste your time or his.

With dwindling insurance re-imbursement, it is imperative that doctors spend time doing what they do best and that is treating patients. We hire office managers and staff to develop paperwork and explain things to patients. Don't expect to spend your visit time discussing his financial practices with him because then you will lose time and not be able to discuss what really is the most important thing here to you and the doctor: your medical issue and getting better.

And as far as appeals go, you can submit them until you are blue in the face. They can continue to deny. Again, your responsibility does not stop when you submit the insurance card. Sometimes, you have to get involved. You might have to write a letter or help get additional information from another doctor that now due to HIPAA we can't get without you. If someone failed to help with these matters, then why shouldn't the doctor be able to bill you. You wouldn't believe the # of people who suddenly get around to doing things that you've asked of them because you sent them a bill or in this case, noticed a charge on their credit card.

I know you are taking your copay with you, but there are people who don't. I have been to doctor's offices who state they will bill you your copay, but there will be an additional charge for that billing.

 

[bumbershoot]

The doctor has a contract with the insurance company as well stating he is only supposed to bill "x" amount of dollars for a visit, procedure, or whatever. They also get $35 from the patient for a co-pay. They can't charge more than what they've agreed to charge and then make the patient pay the difference. That, in and of itself, is fraud.

Exactly. If this doctor is a preferred provider, they are bound to their agreement.

I once had a call to the insurance company, when the MD I saw wanted me to pay the difference between what she charged and what insurance paid. Insurance company verified that she was a PP, put me on hold, called the MD office and reminded them what preferred provider meant contractually, and it was all taken care of.


This is NOT the norm, to need a CC, for doctor's offices. I'm sure many offices do it, but it's by no means normal at this point. I don't see many MDs (don't trust 'em one little tiny bit!), but of the ones I've seen and that DH has seen, and the kid's hospital ER for DS, none of them did that. We never have a proper copay; we always seem to have co-insurance, so it does require the EOB to be sent before anyone knows our percentage.

As for insurance companies not paying quickly...I've heard that line from a couple providers recently. Problem is, Aetna emails me the EOB about 2 days after the doctor submits the claim. And right on that EOB is the date that the doctor was paid. And they can tell when the check was cashed, too! Superfun to find that info out, IMO. I don't know about other insurance companies, but ours, at least, pays almost immediately. It's the offices that are the slowpokes!

 

[tcp_dpm]

WOW. 2 days is not the norm for insurance payment. They have had to pass laws regarding how long an insurance company has to make payment on a "clean claim" because they would traditionally delay payment.

I am, by no means, saying that all doctors are clean and there aren't bad apples out there.

This doctor is being criticized for covering himself and the OP is covering herself.

I do not take CC #'s, but I also am in a very rural area, not a big city. I don't fault him for taking the CC#, if he is doing so legally and for coverage of stuff that the insurance company doesn't cover in their contract and to prevent "bad debt". The old saying is "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me" and that MIGHT be what he is protecting against.

IF he is trying to scam people and charge them for what the insurance company says should be written off based on the contract, then shame on them.

I'm just trying to present reasons that there might be for his policies, but again if I'm defending a crook, I apologize.

As far as PP with co-insurance, then this is indeed a different beast altogether. There are work arounds to this though. IF the doctor knows his contractual allowances are and knows what code he is charging for office visits and procedures, then the staff should be able to figure out a co-insurance cost (ie 20% of approved charges). Again, to prevent bad debt, it would not be unusual to be asked for this at the time of visit. The costs of billing, re-billing, etc is more than people think. One bill alone could cost for envelopes, statements, time of re-billing, stamp, toner etc. For all of those with laser printers out there, you know that a refill can cost $100 or more for a new toner. Going through 12 a year in a medical practice is not unusual. It might be $3-4, which doesn't seem to be that much, but multiply that over 200-400 patients per month and you can see how it can add up. We're on the budget board for crying out loud, why can't doctors try to keep their costs down?

Again, just trying to help all of those with open minds see the other side of things.

 

[kaytieeldr]

To clear something else up, next time you get an explanation of benefits (EOB) from your insurance company you might want to look very closely at it. The CoPay IS NOT on top of our fee. If the insurance approves $100, and your copay is $35, we don't make $135, we get $35 from you and $65 from the insurance company.

:confused2: I don't understand why you would think anyone would assume the physician's office gets more than the negotiated amount. I think we all KNOW that, on a $100 visit, the physician gets the $35 co-pay (that, after all, being what a co-pay is) from the patient and the remaining $65 from the insurance company.

This doctor is being criticized for covering himself and the OP is covering herself.

So it looks like they're at an impasse.

The old saying is "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me" and that MIGHT be what he is protecting against.

So you're saying the OP is guilty until proven innocent - by bringing her copay, and by not bouncing a check, and by not having an insurance company that will refuse to pay any portion of the bill? That's a huge burden/accusation to put on someone with several medical conditions... it's a huge burden on anyone... and SHE hasn't fooled anyone. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with a doctor who doesn't trust the patients and their insurance companies to behave responsibly based solely on some others' past actions.

 

[akcire]

I told but the secretary and the doctor I wasn't comfortable giving out her CC info and why. I asked them what kind of security they had in place to protect that information. Was it under lock and key, would it be kept online, who has access??? The answers...they didn't know!!! Really?????

Okay. First of all I have a CC number on file with my primary (for missed appointments) not that she would ever charge me or would ever let me miss an appointment. Very small doctors office two employees doctor and receptionist, no kidding doctors husband calls to confirm appointments.

However, if you want to get a buzz going in the doctors office ask them if there general liability insurance covers identity theft and if they are currently PCI compliant. This will have the doctor on the phone, trying to figure out what he needs to do to cover himself. If anyone stores your information and the data is compromised electronically or hard copy they are liable.

 

[JLO]

Just my two cents. Why would the doctor check her CC before the appointment and not the insurance? I'm sure that is what they're most concerned about - getting payment from the insurance company.

I say, don't say a word about the debit card being invalid, let them hold it "on file" for as long as they want and pay your copay.

 

[Hannathy]

One thing the OP needs to remember is if this specialist is so in demand then he will simply tell her if she doesn't like their procedure then she needs to see another Dr. I'm sure he has no problem filling appointment slots!! This is not a GP who has problems filling his quota. I worked for a specialist who was in demand and we had folks waiting 6 months or more for a slot so it really was no big deal to have someone not book because they didn't like an office rule.

Do not count on having a long conversation with this Dr also over billing. I'm sure he will say talk to my office manager and not spend his heavily booked exam time on billing. He simply won't do it. I have seen the Dr's I worked with say this their scheduling just doesn't allow it.

I also wouldn't trust a Dr. with my life that I couldn't trust with my credit card!!!!

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I have no problem with this and have my credit card of file at 2 doctor's office.
These are premier docs with Northwestern who take months to get in to see.

The credit card is on file incase I miss an appointment without calling to cancel.

 

[JamesMom]

Slightly off topic but...
It is the patients responsibillity to pay - not the insurance company. Any paperwork I have signed said the patient must pay what the insurance company doesn't cover. If the office has a contract with an insurer then that is to taken into consideration but not necessarily at the time of the appoint.
In my case, our family has coverage under a High Deductible plan and we only see in-network participants. In the three offices where my family has been seen since we have had this policy has required FULL COST payment up front regardless of what the negociated rate is. So the doctor charges $175 for my child's visit - I pay it at check out on my HSA debit card or other card if I don't have funds in HSA. Then two weeks later I get the EOB from the insurance company saying they arranged with the doctor the negociated fee of $98. Then about a month later i get the $77 check from the doctor for the difference. The $98 I paid is credited to my insurance deductible. It is just part of the process.
Therefore assuming that you will pay only the insurance rate at time service is rendered is not always the case...

 

[pamjb]

Slightly off topic but...
It is the patients responsibillity to pay - not the insurance company. Any paperwork I have signed said the patient must pay what the insurance company doesn't cover. If the office has a contract with an insurer then that is to taken into consideration but not necessarily at the time of the appoint.
In my case, our family has coverage under a High Deductible plan and we only see in-network participants. In the three offices where my family has been seen since we have had this policy has required FULL COST payment up front regardless of what the negociated rate is. So the doctor charges $175 for my child's visit - I pay it at check out on my HSA debit card or other card if I don't have funds in HSA. Then two weeks later I get the EOB from the insurance company saying they arranged with the doctor the negociated fee of $98. Then about a month later i get the $77 check from the doctor for the difference. The $98 I paid is credited to my insurance deductible. It is just part of the process.
Therefore assuming that you will pay only the insurance rate at time service is rendered is not always the case...

If the providers are truly participating, they are not supposed to be forcing you to pay before it goes to your insurance. I have had a High deductible plan for 3 years and have never had to pay up front. In addition, I work for a major health insurer that administers high deductible plans. If you are paying the bill in full, the insurance should be sending the check to you, not the provider. It may be that your providers are misrepresenting the "assignment of benefits". If you have already paid them, they shouldn't be getting the money from the insurance.

 

[tcp_dpm]

:confused2: I don't understand why you would think anyone would assume the physician's office gets more than the negotiated amount. I think we all KNOW that, on a $100 visit, the physician gets the $35 co-pay (that, after all, being what a co-pay is) from the patient and the remaining $65 from the insurance company.

Sorry, I re-read the post that made me think that she thought the copay was on top of what the doctor already got, now that I looked again, it is more clear.

So it looks like they're at an impasse.

I agree, they have never met and are at an impasse. He has policies and she doesn't agree with them.

So you're saying the OP is guilty until proven innocent - by bringing her copay, and by not bouncing a check, and by not having an insurance company that will refuse to pay any portion of the bill? That's a huge burden/accusation to put on someone with several medical conditions... it's a huge burden on anyone... and SHE hasn't fooled anyone. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with a doctor who doesn't trust the patients and their insurance companies to behave responsibly based solely on some others' past actions.

I'm not saying that she is guilty, just that if you have a business and things go wrong once and you don't take steps to correct things so it never happens again, you won't be in business for long. If you own a shop and think someone is shoplifting in their backpack, wouldn't you put up a sign that says "no backpacks". Are we assuming that everyone with a backpack is stealing,...NO. We can't make rules and selectively apply them, they have to be blanket rules that cover everyone. I wish we could selectively apply rules to only the guilty. It would make life alot easier on us all. Another example: just because I go through security in the airport and I am checked and take my shoes off, etc. Am I guilty of being a terrorist...NO, we check everybody.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I so wanted to argue - I mean, discuss alternate point of view (no arguing on the DIS ) - with you. I can't. I don't agree with the policy, but you make ABSOLUTE sense.

 

[tcp_dpm]

I so wanted to argue - I mean, discuss alternate point of view (no arguing on the DIS ) - with you. I can't. I don't agree with the policy, but you make ABSOLUTE sense.

Thank you. I don't intend to argue, I (originally) was just trying to help others see why the policy would be in place for reasons that they might not be aware.

I don't agree either, as I stated in a previous post, this is not my policy at my office, but I have been burned in the past.

As a society, I don't like the fact that rules are made to cover everyone, when only a handful are the sole reason for the rules. Punish them, not me.

 

[Pigeon]

It is not the norm with any of my docs, nor would I provide a cc number.

There have been several instances of medical office employees commiting fraud or identity theft in my area. Things can and do happen, so I see no reason to make life easier for potential criminals.

As for the charge for cancelled appointments, I certainly wouldn't want them to have a cc number for that. Dh recently had a procedure done. After the procedure, the Dr. told him he could cancel his follow-up appointment, which he did. A bit later, he got a reminder call about the appointment. After spending a great deal of time on the phone with the office, it seems that the staff didn't cancel the appointment in their computer system. He could have been charged for an appointment that he had cancelled in plenty of time. Medical office staff screw ups are not all that uncommon.

 

[tcp_dpm]

It is not the norm with any of my docs, nor would I provide a cc number.

There have been several instances of medical office employees commiting fraud or identity theft in my area. Things can and do happen, so I see no reason to make life easier for potential criminals.

As for the charge for cancelled appointments, I certainly wouldn't want them to have a cc number for that. Dh recently had a procedure done. After the procedure, the Dr. told him he could cancel his follow-up appointment, which he did. A bit later, he got a reminder call about the appointment. After spending a great deal of time on the phone with the office, it seems that the staff didn't cancel the appointment in their computer system. He could have been charged for an appointment that he had cancelled in plenty of time. Medical office staff screw ups are not all that uncommon.

I agree that with this, but as was earlier stated, are we to assume all medical office personnel are criminals, just because of a few bad apples? No, just as we shouldn't assume that all doctors who ask for CC #'s are using them for fraud, all patient's will have bad debt and be hard to collect from.

Exercise caution, but don't let it hinder your progress. Ask questions about security of your personal health information and vital information like CC#'s to make sure that everything is on the up and up.

Regarding the PP who said that an appt was made and then cancelled. Yes this happens and I can only hope that if you had been charged on your CC, then it would have been reversed. Mistakes happen in everyday life. The key is to apologize, correct the mistake that has been made, take responsibility of your error and move on.

We are talking about doctor's offices making mistakes, committing fraud, etc. Doesn't this happen in every field. Don't we all make mistakes in our jobs?

 

[Pigeon]

I agree that with this, but as was earlier stated, are we to assume all medical office personnel are criminals, just because of a few bad apples? No, just as we shouldn't assume that all doctors who ask for CC #'s are using them for fraud, all patient's will have bad debt and be hard to collect from.

Exercise caution, but don't let it hinder your progress. Ask questions about security of your personal health information and vital information like CC#'s to make sure that everything is on the up and up.

Regarding the PP who said that an appt was made and then cancelled. Yes this happens and I can only hope that if you had been charged on your CC, then it would have been reversed. Mistakes happen in everyday life. The key is to apologize, correct the mistake that has been made, take responsibility of your error and move on.

We are talking about doctor's offices making mistakes, committing fraud, etc. Doesn't this happen in every field. Don't we all make mistakes in our jobs?

I don't deal with any business that wants my credit card number "just in case." Time to find a different doctor, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[tcp_dpm]

I don't deal with any business that wants my credit card number "just in case." Time to find a different doctor, as far as I'm concerned.

You'd be shocked at the number of businesses that have your credit card on file without your knowledge, including online retailers. I agree with all of this in regards to protecting your CC#'s. As I previously said, I have been a victim of identity theft and can certainly understand the concern.

How many times do we hear of an online retailer being compromised by hackers?

One of the MAJOR insurance companies in my area that I have a contract with contacted the office to say that they were compromised and my information may have been leaked. This is a multi-billion dollar insurance company that was hacked, so yes, it can happen to anyone.

Mistakes do happen, and we think that some are bigger than others, but what about when we go through the drive through and they don't put your sandwich in the bag? Seems like a little mistake that is inconvenient, but I always wonder would it be so small if while pulling out of the parking lot and back in again that same person were killed in a traffic accident. Would that same small mistake be viewed as small after that?

 

[Pigeon]

You'd be shocked at the number of businesses that have your credit card on file without your knowledge, including online retailers. I agree with all of this in regards to protecting your CC#'s. As I previously said, I have been a victim of identity theft and can certainly understand the concern.

How many times do we hear of an online retailer being compromised by hackers?

One of the MAJOR insurance companies in my area that I have a contract with contacted the office to say that they were compromised and my information may have been leaked. This is a multi-billion dollar insurance company that was hacked, so yes, it can happen to anyone.

Mistakes do happen, and we think that some are bigger than others, but what about when we go through the drive through and they don't put your sandwich in the bag? Seems like a little mistake that is inconvenient, but I always wonder would it be so small if while pulling out of the parking lot and back in again that same person were killed in a traffic accident. Would that same small mistake be viewed as small after that?

You seem to have some need to justify a practice that many of us find obnoxious, unnecessary and detrimental to the doctor-patient relationship. Fabulous.

Yes, problems happen in many situations in life. That doesn't mean I'm going to willingly additionally expose myself to ridiculous, unnecessary risk for the convenience of a doctor. Your fast food analogy is just bizarre and irrelevant.