Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[KellyNY]

Sorry if I misunderstood, but the way you worded that post seemed to imply that we were just discussing the same points, and so it has made for an old and tired discussion that is no longer valid or relevant.

On the contrary...we are still discussing as we have ideas to share, trip reports or new policy changes (monorail closure, addition of wifi in deluxe resorts), for example. For those of us who have read each and every post in this thread, it is still a relevant discussion, so why not continue to discuss with each other?

Sure there is some overlap or duplication, but that is bound to happen when people are very passionate about something.

We will have to disagree about people becoming bored - so many DIS members don't read the threads they are posting on, and many of them don't continue on if the discussion gets too long. Sure some people move on once they've made their point, but so many get bored of topics very easily and move to another discussion. This thread is huge, so that will scare so many people away from it, which is sad, because there is lots of good info and opinions in here!



I am not saying that Disney should be complacent and arrogant and not offer discounts, but what I am saying is that Disney is the competition that the other hotels are competing with. All of the off-site hotels are trying to secure business from Disney, and they must secure business from Disney as there are far fewer hotels within each brand. The off-site hotels will suffer more with empty rooms than Disney, as Disney has far more rooms, and many different price points for guests to choose. Plus Disney has a pretty much 100% occupancy Vacation Club, which is great for their business.

Your opinion is that on-site hotels are not that amazing, but for millions of guests, on-site is very amazing. Like I said, we know people who only stay on-site, and pay whatever price Disney is asking. Brand loyalty and brand integrity is still pretty high for many guests. This is why we, and many others we know purchased DVC.

You are correct that the Orlando market is vastly different than it used to be, but Disney is still the leader in Orlando. Sure there are lots of other hotels and houses to choose from, but Disney is the competition that all of the other hotels are trying to topple. Honestly, despite what people on this thread believe, it would take a lot to topple Disney in terms of hotel occupancy. So many people will stay at Disney, and only Disney, although there are more empty rooms than before, but that is also because there are more Orlando off-site rooms than ever before too. I wonder when Orlando, including Disney, will reach its hotel saturation point?

Despite all of the competition in Orlando, Disney's hotel rates continue to climb, and I firmly believe that is because they are still getting a huge number of guests staying on-site. We go for 2 weeks each July during peak season, and being DVC, we have stayed everywhere, especially Deluxe resorts that are both cash/DVC, and they are always sold out both cash and DVC. Guests are staying on-site especially during peak seasons. The past few years they have been securing these guests with lots of promos, especially Free Dining, but it works! Just visit the Resort forum when FD comes out, and you'll see the hysteria, and read about sold out resorts within a few days of the FD promotion starting.

Competition makes for a better consumer experience, so it's great that there are lots of Orlando hotels, including Disney, at varying price points. It would be great if Disney room rates were lower across the board, all year round as a direct result of off-site rooms, but there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation during certain times of the year, eg. peak seasons, as Disney still gets guests to pay astronomical rates for Christmas or NYE.

It's all so interesting, and I would love to see the actual numbers! Tiger

Hi Tiger,

Sorry, I think I originally missed this post.

You are right about Disney rooms sold out during specific busy times and we all know why, when parks close to capacity on busiest days you better be onsite guest or you will not get in. Also extra hours are essential during those times.

As for free dining panics, you just confirmed my point, every time this promotion comes out people just book like crazy, it is sale and everyone wants to take advantage of it, exactly what Disney expects to happen. And when there is no discounts, many stay off site. I do not have numbers but I can tell strictly from observations of empty rooms from year to year at CBR, it is just not as busy as it used to be.

I do not own DVC, but if I wanted to buy I would also go with Disney but not because I am so loyal or I would pay anything just to be onsite, it is not a privilege. I would buy from Disney simply because it is investment, 40 years, no less investment, and I would go with a company that I know was in business so long that I will feel that my investment is secured. I could save with offsite vacation club, but in a long run, I would loose as offsite clubs sometimes go down and may not survive 40 years mark. So I can not answer for everyone but many have exact same attitude when it comes to investments and it has nothing to do with loyalty.
Anyway, because DVC is reather consideration of what WILL happen, instead of what IS happening now, I do not feel that DVC members in any way can be a good support for Disney price raise. Consideration is to those families who want to spend or save today on those 7 days in Disney and many switch from onsite to offsite because price raise.

 

[blondietink]

I would have to disagree that FD promotions fill up the hotels on-site. We did the FD promotion in August 2009 and 2010. At POP in 2009, half the resort ws empty. If you drove around to the 80's and 90's buildings they were completely empty and the parking lots had no cars in them. At CB in 2010, we stayed in Aruba, which was only maybe 1/2 filled, and Jamaica section was also almost empty. We drove over to Port Orleans to eat and talked with the CM's there and they said they were only about 1/2 - 2/3 full. So, I would disagree that FD fills up the resorts.

 

[Tiger926]

Hi Tiger,

Sorry, I think I originally missed this post.

You are right about Disney rooms sold out during specific busy times and we all know why, when parks close to capacity on busiest days you better be onsite guest or you will not get in. Also extra hours are essential during those times.

As for free dining panics, you just confirmed my point, every time this promotion comes out people just book like crazy, it is sale and everyone wants to take advantage of it, exactly what Disney expects to happen. And when there is no discounts, many stay off site. I do not have numbers but I can tell strictly from observations of empty rooms from year to year at CBR, it is just not as busy as it used to be.

I do not own DVC, but if I wanted to buy I would also go with Disney but not because I am so loyal or I would pay anything just to be onsite, it is not a privilege. I would buy from Disney simply because it is investment, 40 years, no less investment, and I would go with a company that I know was in business so long that I will feel that my investment is secured. I could save with offsite vacation club, but in a long run, I would loose as offsite clubs sometimes go down and may not survive 40 years mark. So I can not answer for everyone but many have exact same attitude when it comes to investments and it has nothing to do with loyalty.
Anyway, because DVC is reather consideration of what WILL happen, instead of what IS happening now, I do not feel that DVC members in any way can be a good support for Disney price raise. Consideration is to those families who want to spend or save today on those 7 days in Disney and many switch from onsite to offsite because price raise.

Not sure what you mean by this?

I would have to disagree that FD promotions fill up the hotels on-site. We did the FD promotion in August 2009 and 2010. At POP in 2009, half the resort ws empty. If you drove around to the 80's and 90's buildings they were completely empty and the parking lots had no cars in them. At CB in 2010, we stayed in Aruba, which was only maybe 1/2 filled, and Jamaica section was also almost empty. We drove over to Port Orleans to eat and talked with the CM's there and they said they were only about 1/2 - 2/3 full. So, I would disagree that FD fills up the resorts.

It depends upon the time of year though, as mid to late August is not busy as most schools are back in session. Since FD, that time of year is more busy than it used to though, and if you go in September when FD is on, it's quite busy!

Disney has already said that FD has been very successfull overall. They don't give specific numbers, but they mention certain promos by name in their quarterly and annual reports. It fills the resorts more than they were filled before, during what used to be dead periods. And yes, there will be times when the resorts are only half full, due to the time of year, but those same resorts were mostly empty before FD. As well, FD rooms only make up a certain percentage of each resort - once those rooms are sold out, than that is it for that promo rate at that resort. So, the other rooms you saw that were empty would be cash rooms at rack rates Disney only holds a certain percentage of rooms for discounts/promos, whether it's AP rates or FD promo, for instance.

Disney has admitted that FD has been a great promo for them across the board, on a consistent basis, but it doesn't mean that all resorts will be 100% full all year long though. So when we say fill the resorts, we don't necessarily mean 100% occupancy all year long, but more full than before FD.

Talk to CMs during FD periods, and they will tell you that FD has brought about a whole new dimension of crowds during what were essentially dead seasons, and that is exactly why Disney is having a heck of a time letting this promo go.

Tiger

 

[BigGreen73]

Wow, this thread is still going?..

Still love Disney & WDW but I have no idea when we are going again, with less discounts, the cost of airfare etc a trip to WDW just isn't worth what we have to pay. We may wait an try another trip once the fantasy land expension etc has been completed. Not enough has changed for the better to warrant paying the increased costs w/ less for your money year over year.

And we didn't even use discounts our first few trips either so discounts weren't even a huge selling point at first, but with so many changes (not for the better), we don't see the value at regular cost anymore.

 

[KellyNY]

Not sure what you mean by this?

I mean that DVC use points, no matter how high price is, you do not pay more for room and therefore not really affected. DVC already invested in a future trips, and already part of Disney scheme. Disney cannot rely on DVC members when price goes up simply because it does not affect DVC in any way.

Non DVC visitors however consider current price, not points and price raise affects them greatly, to the point of changing preferences and staying off site, and this is category of visitors Disney need to think about.

As DVC, unless you sell your membership, you stuck, they got you and your money anyway. As non DVC, I have a choice where to bring my money and there are not many who will pay just anything to stay onsite, esp. when offsite hotels are same or better, comparing category by category and costs much less.

I understand all the perks(although I do not find many of them that essential) and 24/7 surrounding by Disney(although only value resort have true Disney surrounding) but everything got a price and today many just do not see how it worth all the extra money they spend onsite.

 

[Albytaps]

Wow, this thread is still going?..

LOL I was thinking the same thing!

Well, I don't see Disney going anywhere but up hill from here. I'll be there in 8 days, so I'll have another first hand view on this topic.

Considering the new Fantasyland and the plans for Avatar, I don't see how this topic is still being considered.

 

[brerdawg]

LOL I was thinking the same thing!

Well, I don't see Disney going anywhere but up hill from here. I'll be there in 8 days, so I'll have another first hand view on this topic.

Considering the new Fantasyland and the plans for Avatar, I don't see how this topic is still being considered.

Agree!

 

[Tiger926]

I mean that DVC use points, no matter how high price is, you do not pay more for room and therefore not really affected. DVC already invested in a future trips, and already part of Disney scheme. Disney cannot rely on DVC members when price goes up simply because it does not affect DVC in any way.

Non DVC visitors however consider current price, not points and price raise affects them greatly, to the point of changing preferences and staying off site, and this is category of visitors Disney need to think about.

As DVC, unless you sell your membership, you stuck, they got you and your money anyway. As non DVC, I have a choice where to bring my money and there are not many who will pay just anything to stay onsite, esp. when offsite hotels are same or better, comparing category by category and costs much less.

I understand all the perks(although I do not find many of them that essential) and 24/7 surrounding by Disney(although only value resort have true Disney surrounding) but everything got a price and today many just do not see how it worth all the extra money they spend onsite.

I'm thinking you may have misunderstood what I wrote.

This is all true what you wrote, but I wasn't discussing DVC. I mentioned that being DVC, I've stayed at all hotels, especially Deluxe with both cash and DVC rooms, and they are sold out during peak season. I'm not talking about DVC being sold out, as it pretty much is, year round. I was talking about the cash rooms, especially at those hotels where we share the same check-in desks. We've tried to add cash rooms before to a DVC point stay, and none were available.

Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, Tiger

 

[Planogirl]

LOL I was thinking the same thing!

Well, I don't see Disney going anywhere but up hill from here. I'll be there in 8 days, so I'll have another first hand view on this topic.

Considering the new Fantasyland and the plans for Avatar, I don't see how this topic is still being considered.

We'll just have to see how the new areas look. I'm personally underwhelmed (but hopeful) when it comes to the Fantasyland expansion. The indignation over the new Avatar area is amusing. I don't join in that because I like Avatar but so many people keep griping.

But we'll see.

 

[flicx]

LOL I was thinking the same thing!

Well, I don't see Disney going anywhere but up hill from here. I'll be there in 8 days, so I'll have another first hand view on this topic.

Considering the new Fantasyland and the plans for Avatar, I don't see how this topic is still being considered.

There are quite a few other issues on here that are being debated other than future projects.While these are exciting ,I am just hoping I am not priced out till they do open!

 

[nytimez]

Wow, this thread is still going?..

LOL I was thinking the same thing!

Careful... you can get in trouble around here for saying that.

 

[KellyNY]

I'm thinking you may have misunderstood what I wrote.

This is all true what you wrote, but I wasn't discussing DVC. I mentioned that being DVC, I've stayed at all hotels, especially Deluxe with both cash and DVC rooms, and they are sold out during peak season. I'm not talking about DVC being sold out, as it pretty much is, year round. I was talking about the cash rooms, especially at those hotels where we share the same check-in desks. We've tried to add cash rooms before to a DVC point stay, and none were available.

Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, Tiger

I see, sorry I misunderstood you. I agree about busy season as I said before, but at the same time are those hotels busy because of discounts, and how busy they are without them. In fact last August CBR was seriously empty, not regular off season empty, I go in August all the time, so I can tell difference. And it was fd time.
Question is if fd is what fills rooms now, what will happen when they stop offering it. I really doubt picture will be good.

Thank you for interesting disussion btw, really enjoy it.

 

[Tiger926]

I see, sorry I misunderstood you. I agree about busy season as I said before, but at the same time are those hotels busy because of discounts, and how busy they are without them. In fact last August CBR was seriously empty, not regular off season empty, I go in August all the time, so I can tell difference. And it was fd time.
Question is if fd is what fills rooms now, what will happen when they stop offering it. I really doubt picture will be good.

Thank you for interesting disussion btw, really enjoy it.

Good point about being busy, as Disney doesn't release specific and detailed occupancy rates to the public.

Like I mentioned above, Disney only allots a certain number of rooms for discounts/promos, and FD sells out during most, if not all time periods, according to wording in Disney's reports. Maybe they are embellishing, but none of us know for sure? Based on the hysteria on the Resort Board though, many DISers report that most, if not all Values sell out, and many moderates. Deluxes are last to sell out, as they are more expensive, so the FD promo isn't as great in that respect as the other resort categories.

FD is doing a pretty good job of filling rooms, but as you mentioned, cash rooms are still empty during FD, so that would indicate that guests are looking for discounts. Disney knows this, and that is why they are not getting rid of this promo, despite making public reports to the contrary.

Enjoying the discussing, Tiger

 

[flicx]

I would have to disagree that FD promotions fill up the hotels on-site. We did the FD promotion in August 2009 and 2010. At POP in 2009, half the resort ws empty. If you drove around to the 80's and 90's buildings they were completely empty and the parking lots had no cars in them. At CB in 2010, we stayed in Aruba, which was only maybe 1/2 filled, and Jamaica section was also almost empty. We drove over to Port Orleans to eat and talked with the CM's there and they said they were only about 1/2 - 2/3 full. So, I would disagree that FD fills up the resorts.

I agree with most of this post.Disney has seriously started to lessen the value of free dining.I personally have never done the free dining as it would have never been a value for my family of three.The room discount was always a better option for us.I personally think the reason disney is more crowded in the off season right now is that it is the only time alot of people can truly afford to go anymore.They have compacted the value season way down and jacked rooms way up in the last decade,so if you want to stay on site and you are on a tight budget the window of oppurtunity is way smaller.I remember years ago when value season was months longer.So I don't necessarily buy into the diniing theory.I think it is more price related!

 

[danielephant]

am i think only one that thinks avatar is stupid...this is the first mentioning of this i have seen on the dis, so that is why i mention it. My hubby told me about it..and i was like woopdeedoo! (in a sarcastic way! LOL)

 

[Albytaps]

am i think only one that thinks avatar is stupid...this is the first mentioning of this i have seen on the dis, so that is why i mention it. My hubby told me about it..and i was like woopdeedoo! (in a sarcastic way! LOL)

My wife is not fond of the idea either, and made a poopie face when I told her. I didn't get too excited even though I loved the movie. But to think of the possibilities of what they can do with it, it is very intriguing.

 

[BigGreen73]

My wife is not fond of the idea either, and made a poopie face when I told her. I didn't get too excited even though I loved the movie. But to think of the possibilities of what they can do with it, it is very intriguing.

I loves Avatar and am really looking forward to see what Disney can do with the franchise in Animal Kingdom. Animal Kingdom has plenty of room and I think an Avatar themed land would be very cool if done right.

BUT..alas this will be just another exuse to increase prices. By the time this opens, single day tickets should be in the $100+ range by then.

Just looked at the prices for DDP 2012 prices, room rates etc just in case we can swing a trip, which I doubt. Wow...just wow...the savings for the DDP are pretty much non-existant now..why even bother..don't even get me started on room rates...

 

[Albytaps]

I loves Avatar and am really looking forward to see what Disney can do with the franchise in Animal Kingdom. Animal Kingdom has plenty of room and I think an Avatar themed land would be very cool if done right.

BUT..alas this will be just another exuse to increase prices. By the time this opens, single day tickets should be in the $100+ range by then.

Just looked at the prices for DDP 2012 prices, room rates etc just in case we can swing a trip, which I doubt. Wow...just wow...the savings for the DDP are pretty much non-existant now..why even bother..don't even get me started on room rates...

Yea but how does increased prices mean that Disney is going downhill? The ticket prices are ridiculous, and so is everything else in WDW. However, everything else in the world (the real world, not Disney) is increasing in prices as well. They will keep improving Disney to make people want to keep coming back. I don't see how any of this could be considered "going downhill."

 

[blondietink]

The FD promotion works for us, because we are a 4 adult aged family. FD for 4 adults is virtually the same as the price for a room, so you can figure that either one is "free". We go whenever the FD promotion fits in our schedule.

 

[Texas Rob]

When I was going to WDW as a child we would stay off property and eat most of the time off property. We would occasionally partake in one of the meals at the parks, but not often. Now fast forward about 25 years and my family stays on property and we all eat on property. We park our car and never move it until we are ready to leave. Things have changed. With this change is I am sure an increase of population in the parks on the resorts. I agree with several posters that our society have demanded a decrease in service/quality "if anything". I don't see it decreasing at all, just changing to suit a different population in the parks and on the resorts. I am glad for the changes and I am glad they offer value resorts for those of us who can't afford the moderate to higher end hotel resorts. It is a great time every time for us.