Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[Magicbus]

As for Pleasure Island, the 2 main reason I've heard was "families wanted more family things to do" and it turned into a local riff raff hotspot.

Those may or may not be the reasons, but like any successful business, it's all about the bottom line. So let's not forget that first and foremost Disney is a business.

 

[cm8]

Tony67, you make some great points and you bring up a personal peeve of mine. I get tired of seeing people post their thoughts and experiences and then see so many show up to tell them that they're wrong. No, they are not wrong. This is what they think and this is what they experienced and that can't be wrong. One is their opinion, good as anyone else's, and the other is just what they personally experienced, also as valid as anyone else.

Now, if they are stating untruths, that's different. However, usually it's just someone telling what happened and the vultures immediately start circling. I still don't think it's THAT many though. You can describe your own trip as different as a counterpoint or explain why something is the way it is and I don't see those as attacks.

By the way, I agree with you about Chef Mickey's...

 

[DisGirl23]

Well, first off, let me admit that I am actually listening to "Creating Magic". Not reading it. I currently have 3 books going... audio of "Creating Magic" that I listen to on my commute back and forth to work. "The Wonderful World of Customer Service" by Jeff Kober that I'm reading on my Kindle during breaks and lunches at work. And re-reading "Be Our Guest" Perfecting the art of customer service at home. Anyone see a pattern here?

That being said, since I'm actually listening, not reading a hard copy, I don't have the ability to go back for direct quotes nor, am I recalling everything at the moment (I usually listen to books like this a couple times) but, I'll do my best briefly on one of the topics. Let's say food standardization...

When Disney did not have one centralized executive responsible for food pricing, inconsistent decisions were constantly be made. Prices varied at a lot of different parks and resorts for the same product, chefs were allowed to order according to personal preference, etc.
He goes on to say that at times they were ordering as many as 25 different kinds of french fries and 130 different pastas. This resulted in higher prices from the vendors because they had to warehouse so many similar products.
By having one centralized purchasing department, everyone knew what they responsible for and operations started to run more smoothly and efficiently.
According to Mr. Cockerell, the savings from reducing the variety of fries alone resulted in a half million dollar savings.

Again, I'm not defending any side here... just stating what I've read so, no flames please.

On a side note...
I would recommend this book to anyone whose interested in Disney and/or business practices. The book goes into detail about streamlining processes, fixing mistakes, working with your employees and more. Actually, I'd recommend any of the books I'm currently reading or listening too...

 

[DisGirl23]

Those may or may not be the reasons, but like any successful business, it's all about the bottom line. So let's not forget that first and foremost Disney is a business.

Absolutely! And if guests were going home and telling friends, family and coworkers that they were mugged at DTD, I would think that would have some effect on the bottom line. If I didn't know any better, I'd definitely rethink taking a vacation there if that's what I kept hearing!

 

[Donut23]

Well, first off, let me admit that I am actually listening to "Creating Magic". Not reading it. I currently have 3 books going... audio of "Creating Magic" that I listen to on my commute back and forth to work. "The Wonderful World of Customer Service" by Jeff Kober that I'm reading on my Kindle during breaks and lunches at work. And re-reading "Be Our Guest" Perfecting the art of customer service at home. Anyone see a pattern here?

That being said, since I'm actually listening, not reading a hard copy, I don't have the ability to go back for direct quotes nor, am I recalling everything at the moment (I usually listen to books like this a couple times) but, I'll do my best briefly on one of the topics. Let's say food standardization...

When Disney did not have one centralized executive responsible for food pricing, inconsistent decisions were constantly be made. Prices varied at a lot of different parks and resorts for the same product, chefs were allowed to order according to personal preference, etc.
He goes on to say that at times they were ordering as many as 25 different kinds of french fries and 130 different pastas. This resulted in higher prices from the vendors because they had to warehouse so many similar products.
By having one centralized purchasing department, everyone knew what they responsible for and operations started to run more smoothly and efficiently.
According to Mr. Cockerell, the savings from reducing the variety of fries alone resulted in a half million dollar savings.
Again, I'm not defending any side here... just stating what I've read so, no flames please.

On a side note...
I would recommend this book to anyone whose interested in Disney and/or business practices. The book goes into detail about streamlining processes, fixing mistakes, working with your employees and more. Actually, I'd recommend any of the books I'm currently reading or listening too...

Now for the rest of the story.

......and then Disney hired Dieter Hannig (sp?) with the task of turning WDW into a top flight food destination. His team hired talented chefs and helped them create a very good overall dining experience. How do I know? I worked with 2 of Dieter's staff for a while. They were all very proud of what they had accomplished. Disney was finally getting a reputation for something more than hamburgers and fries.

For example, remember the dining series the master chef at Jiko started. My crazy Disney friend would fly down once a month to attend these dinners. The chef was fabulous. Then disney started cutting their budgets.......he left....as did many of the better chefs.

Food budgets continued to be reduced.....then the centralized kitchens sprung up, more cost cutting so better cuts of meat were replaced with cheeper cuts. Then more budget cuts and more good chefs put on their running shoes and left.

Dieter and all his entire department were disbanded.....no longer needed. SURE they were not needed.....Disney was at best serving what is now considered "banquet food"....certainly don't need a talented chef for THAT! WOO HOO - more cost savings with "cheeper" chefs! Set and Match Disney!

What do we have left now...........



Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut23
...and Tony I agree.....the food is very disappointing for the prices they charge.

I disagree! The food would be disappointing even at 1985 prices!

 

[Donut23]

deleted.....I just posted the entire article referenced here.

 

[DisGirl23]

Donut23,
When would you say this happened? I only ask because I've been so intrigued with some of the good things that Mr. Cockerell seemed to have helped bring to the table that I start to wonder if, once he left, they started to cheap out in certain areas.

As far as the food decline portion of this thread... I don't eat seafood, I don't eat prime rib, or a lot of ethnic foods, to me a french fry is a french fry (some better than others of course). I'm not a Disney newbie at all but, I'm also a more basic food kind of girl. So, for me, this is why I haven't noticed a decline. I also haven't had any issues with the sawdust (I mean, hamburger) buns.

 

[Donut23]

Tony67, you make some great points and you bring up a personal peeve of mine. I get tired of seeing people post their thoughts and experiences and then see so many show up to tell them that they're wrong. No, they are not wrong. This is what they think and this is what they experienced and that can't be wrong. One is their opinion, good as anyone else's, and the other is just what they personally experienced, also as valid as anyone else.

Now, if they are stating untruths, that's different. However, usually it's just someone telling what happened and the vultures immediately start circling. I still don't think it's THAT many though. You can describe your own trip as different as a counterpoint or explain why something is the way it is and I don't see those as attacks.

By the way, I agree with you about Chef Mickey's...

I got your back, Tony and Plano!

 

[Donut23]

Donut23,
When would you say this happened? I only ask because I've been so intrigued with some of the good things that Mr. Cockerell seemed to have helped bring to the table that I start to wonder if, once he left, they started to cheap out in certain areas.

As far as the food decline portion of this thread... I don't eat seafood, I don't eat prime rib, or a lot of ethnic foods, to me a french fry is a french fry (some better than others of course). I'm not a Disney newbie at all but, I'm also a more basic food kind of girl. So, for me, this is why I haven't noticed a decline. I also haven't had any issues with the sawdust (I mean, hamburger) buns.

I don't know exactly when he was hired. The article I found was written in 2003 when his imput was finally beginning to make a difference. I thought some here would find the information more valid if there were articles written about his experiences with Disney.

Sadly, short-lived.

He probably "Gave 'em more.........and charged 'em a fair price".

 

[Donut23]

Here we go.....page one.

Dieter Hannig: having traveled thousands of miles, Disney R&D VP finds making guests happy is no small feat in this world
Nation's Restaurant News, Jan 27, 2003 by Mary Caldwell
1234Next ..Strolling through Orlando, Fla.'s Disney World theme park, Dieter Hannig is ready to stop and chat with visitors in English, German, Spanish, French or Portuguese. He is also ready to participate in the tradition of swapping one of the trading pins from his lanyard for someone else's. If he should happen to ask where someone has eaten at Disney and how he or she liked the food, it's more than idle conversation: He considers the answer critical to improving and maintaining the quality of Disney's massive foodservice operation.

Hannig, the park's senior vice president of food and beverage, oversees a department that handles some 100 million food and beverage transactions a year. His purview ranges from snack carts to fine dining--more than 500 locations in all. Though the volume of food and guests might seem overwhelming to outsiders, and the big picture definitely counts, he believes that the organization's ultimate success rests on satisfying each customer, one at a time. To Hannig, the central mission of Disney's food and beverage department is: "Make every guest feel special."

"We have all the other bells and whistles that anybody else has, the strategic plans and five-year plans and all those good things that people like to talk about," Hannig says. "But I think we rather take the approach of one guest at a time just because if he or she is happy and comes back, well, a lot of other people will hear about it."

Interest in cooking was only part of the reason why Hannig, who started his apprenticeship at age 13, became a chef. "Growing up in the early '60s in Germany, you didn't have many choices. Trade schools in general had been very, very popular. The culinary field appealed to me because it gave me an opportunity to travel, to move around" without having a negative career impact.

And move around he did, cooking at restaurants in Germany and Switzerland. There were two years in between when he was drafted into the military and served in the mountain climber brigade in Bavaria's "picture-perfect" town of Mittenwald. Then he worked more than 13 years for Hilton International in more than 20 countries in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, Latin America and the United States.

"That makes you extremely flexible," he explains. "You have to adapt to the people; the people aren't going to adapt to you."

Travel also broadened his horizons in regard to the sheer wealth of diverse cuisines. With his classical training, Hannig says, "I initially felt I knew it all... but as I moved on, I realized that the more I'm in this business, I really don't know anything, which makes it a pretty humbling experience."

When Hilton International changed hands, Hannig took a job in 1988 with the start-up of EuroDisney that was later renamed Disneyland Paris. He was in charge of designing kitchens and planning concepts and menus for more than 25 food and beverage operations, including 15 American-themed table-service restaurants, one dinner-show concept for 1,200 people, plus bars and lounges.

Clifford Pleau, now director of culinary development and executive chef, New Business Division, for Darden Restaurants, worked with Hannig at EuroDisney. As Pleau explains, "In a lot of ways EuroDisney was a project that recapitulated all his travels into one location." Pleau describes Hannig as the "ringleader" of "one of the highest-power cooking teams that I've ever been associated with.

"I felt how rewarding it must have been for him to utilize, integrate all his travels and food experiences, and put them together and make so many styles of food all at once. There was no better-qualified person for the job."

Once the French resort was open, Hannig moved to Disney World where he has remained for about 10 years. Within the 30,000-acre resort, he oversees restaurants with an array of international themes. Far-flung trips for business and pleasure -- his idea of a vacation is climbing Mount Everest or trekking through Tanzania -- keep his culinary knowledge honed and updated.

At Disney some of Hannig's responsibilities include concept development, repositioning existing facilities and spearheading ongoing education for foodservice employees. His duties extend to working with Klaus Mager, director of food and beverage for Disneyland Hong Kong in planning for the debut of the Asian theme park, which is slated to open in 2005. And every day Hannig can, he hoofs it around the park for at least two hours to interact with guests.

When Hannig began in Orlando, people came to Disney for the entertainment and the attractions and the time was ripe to "raise the bar" to improve the quality of the cuisine. Lee Cockerell, Disney World's executive vice president of operations, describes Hannig this way: "He's extremely driven. He never gives up. He wears you down eventually to get what he wants." Cockerell says that energy carries over to Hannig's personal life; he is an avid participant in marathons and triathlons.

On the job Hannig's energy is very focused: "He's highly disciplined, with attention to detail. And to find a creative person who's got a lot of discipline -- that's unusual," Cockerell says. "He's quite inspirational to our chefs. People come and work for Dieter. He's really changed almost all the food concepts we have at Walt Disney World.

 

[Donut23]

and now we have......page two......sorry, I'm not much of a Techno-babe

"He was a chef, so all of the chefs have a lot of respect for him. At the same time he understands the front-of-the-house and service, and he can design kitchens and put the front- and the back-of-the-house together so they work. He's really an important person in our business down here. We do almost a billion dollars in sales."

As an example of the way Hannig operates, Cockerell tells this anecdote: "We had this old restaurant on top of the Contemporary Hotel, which opened in 1971 when Walt Disney World opened. Dieter wanted to do a California concept up there. I remember we went to see [Disney CEO] Michael Eisner and asked for six and a half million dollars to renovate it. In those days people weren't too excited about spending millions of dollars on food concepts because it's hard to make money in that business and Dieter really pushed it through and got it approved. It's been one of the most successful restaurants [California Grill] in the country since then."

Hannig has streamlined fast-service outlets, limiting the menu in many instances to a single type of food, such as pizza or burgers or barbecue. Cockerell at first thought the notion was "crazy" but went along with it and now says: "What we've learned is, when you just pick one item or two, you do a better job. They're more profitable, and service is quicker. So I didn't believe him, but it worked. We've learned to trust him and let him do his thing."

At Disney employees are called "cast members," and Hannig likens the task of consistently producing excellent meals to a Broadway show. "Some of the great plays have gone on there for 10 or 15 or 20 years, and the visitors pay $50 for a ticket. They don't really give a damn if I have a problem with my wife, if I have a cold, if I really don't want to work or if I feel miserable. Those guests are entitled to have the best performance. And this [foodservice] is the same philosophical thing. Everybody has a role here."

To reinforce service standards, Hannig emphasizes training and education for employees at all levels. Even a pot washer needs to understand "how important his role is, to have his copper pots well polished and shined -- because if those pots go out on stage in an open kitchen, they're part of the show set." Cockerell cites the success of a Hannig-initiated "Service Excellence" program -- to the tune of "a million three, a million four" -- that retrained every employee, with a win-win-win result: dramatic increases in profits, better customer service and greater tips for the waiters.

Hannig's interest in education extends right up the food chain, so to speak. When he developed African-themed restaurants for Disney's Animal Kingdom, he sent a team of chefs to Africa to learn about the authentic cuisine. "I cannot just give them a report with a bunch of nice pictures and recipes in a Powerpoint and say, 'Go and knock yourself out.' No. I packed those guys on the plane."

Educated cast members who are passionate about the cuisine, in turn, can teach guests about foods and cultures they may not have experienced before. Some 300 sommeliers help guests in the various Disney restaurants learn about wines.

 

[Donut23]

finally.......I'll expand my talents and include pages 3 AND 4. Hold on, here I go!!!


Cockerell credits another innovation to Hannig: "Everything's fresh here. We're not buying any product prepared already. We're making our own salad dressing. We're making our own salsas, and that's Dieter bringing it in and actually doing it well and doing it at a better price, frankly."

In addition, Cockerell says, "You can walk into any restaurant at Walt Disney World, and if you have a food allergy or you need a special diet, without question, the chef will come out, sit down at your table, work it out and prepare it for you.

"Dieter has really driven that kind of thing home strongly, that we just take care of that."

In the end, Hannig says, consistency is the key that distinguishes a restaurant that exceeds customer expectations daily from one that hits the mark only occasionally.

When Disney's Victoria and Albert's restaurant earned a coveted five-diamond rating from the AAA travel guide, Hannig was proud -- to a point. "I said, 'Ok, that's great. Let's burn the certificate."' He hastens to add, "I'm just kidding, but what are we going to do next? The show goes on. It's like all those awards are great, but they're only a moment in time. They're just as good as the last meal you served."

Hannig brings it all back to his Broadway analogy: "The curtain is going down, you get your applause, the critics are writing a good review about you, but the show goes on the next day, the same spiel. You just have to start all over again."

RELATED ARTICLE: At a glance...

Title: senior vice president, food and beverage

Company: Walt Disney World Resorts, Orlando, Fla.

Birthdate: Feb. 2, 1950

Hometown: Wipperfurth, Germany, about 28 miles from Cologne

Personal: married to Ursula Hannig; son Christian, age 23

Education: culinary apprenticeship program in a trade school in Germany plus "all the good old things that you pick up on the road -- taking courses, classes throughout your career at various schools and universities and corporate learning"

Food he would take to a desert island: "a good bottle of Champagne" to go with the mangoes that would probably be there




don't you wish he was still a part of the disney empire?

 

[flicx]

AMEN



For me, 85% of what it once was would be ok if it wasn't so bloody expensive and increasing quickly each year. How can the average family afford it?

This is the core of my issues with disney! Quite frankly I think disney is really close to this now.Incomes aren't increasing nearly fast enough to keep up with increases.The average family will soon either have to cut back frequency or not go.

 

[Donut23]

This is the core of my issues with disney! Quite frankly I think disney is really close to this now.Incomes aren't increasing nearly fast enough to keep up with increases.The average family will soon either have to cut back frequency or not go.

You may be right. Attendance has been down at WDW and would have been much worse without the powerful discounts offered last year.

I know everyone says it's the recession....but I suspect that may not be the only reason.

 

[smidgy]

Bet when she retold the story he yelled at her for asking and was just downright rude to her while she was a perfect angel!

hubby and I said the worst CM job would be to stand at the entrance of an attraction and tell people it is down! yikes!

the 2nd worst job: to be the Cm who hangs the "eviction notices" on the doorknobs!

 

[smidgy]

French fries: we were SO disappointed that they did away with the wonderful FF at CSR, by the Maya pool. they were great! we used a snack credit, and, to us, it was a meal! now they have the same old skinny FF they have everywhere else. anthoer great thing about Disney we loved that was downgraded.

People eating at Fridays or Golden Corral: this is what (unfortunately) people are getting used to, and accepting as :normal". I work at an independantly owned restaurant,, are soups are home made, our beeif is certified Angus, we grind our own meat for burgers, our cabbage rolls and meatloaf are home made, etc. I could go on and on. people don't care as much about "quality" anymore. what a shame.

Pleasure Island: another shame. there are PLENTY "family friendly" things to do at WDW. there are PLENTY "families" of adults only, who enjoyed this venue. I esp. miss (as do many others) Adventurer's club. (and, ironically, this WAS so-called "family friendly" we brought our boys when they were pre teens, and they had a gas!

 

[Pjimmeyer]

Anyway - I do feel that there is a core of 10-20 people who seem to have a mission in life to defend Disney till the end. So yeah it is only a few, but the issue is they get it going and the rest pile on.

I simply have not experienced the decline over the years. You may call me any name you want. You may dismiss me however you decide is best. My experiences are valid and they are mine. I respect yours and your opinion. I am happy to discuss the shortcomings and suggestions for improvement. I disagree with you and you disagree with me. I suspect we will get over it.

 

[kaligal]

Some DISers are extraordinarily loyal to Disney.

If Disney hired and gave an e-key to a guy who had written, "I want to kill people" on his cover letter as his goal and the guy went into a Poly room and stabbed an entire family to death, they'd blame the victims for not having the door locked correctly and being so murderable in general.

 

[Donut23]

Some DISers are extraordinarily loyal to Disney.

If Disney hired and gave an e-key to a guy who had written, "I want to kill people" on his cover letter as his goal and the guy went into a Poly room and stabbed an entire family to death, they'd blame the victims for not having the door locked correctly and being so murderable in general.

A little extreme......but I agree with the basic theory.

Perhaps they take it so personally that anything but blind worship is an affront upon THEM personally.

Whatever the reason, some people choose to believe in spite of increasing evidence each year. This thread is filled with too many actual facts.

Sigh.....oh well. Aren't you the least bit jealous that they can turn their back on obvious reality and live in their fantasy?

 

[Pjimmeyer]

If Disney hired and gave an e-key to a guy who had written, "I want to kill people" on his cover letter as his goal and the guy went into a Poly room and stabbed an entire family to death, they'd blame the victims for not having the door locked correctly and being so murderable in general.

Sigh.....oh well. Aren't you the least bit jealous that they can turn their back on obvious reality and live in their fantasy?

Enough is enough. You guys win.