do you ever feel guilty?

[EMode]

We are fortunate enough to be able to save for our kid's college education and be able to go on family vacations. If something were to change I wouldn't give up family vacation for college savings though. There will be ways for my child to pay for college, there are even affordable college options. I will not sacrifice priceless family time and memories now so that my children can go to college debt free in the future. The way I see it, some debt is not the end of the world and it will be up to my kid's just how much debt they want to go in to. That is part of being an adult and making adult decisions.
So to answer you OP, I would not feel guilty at all.

 

[Colleen27]

Balance is important. But most of my girlfriends have never taken their families to Disney and they aren't living lives of austerity. I see more extreme examples of day to day austerity here on this board to get to Disney than I've ever heard described by my middle class friends who save for college.

To me, the issue with student loans is that when my husband had them and couldn't find a job right out of college, he had to live a life of austerity - and severe austerity. And he still ended up in bankruptcy because you can't pay loans and afford rent on a part time barista's income. I don't want to see my children living a life of austerity later because I don't give up what are some frankly luxuries (for me, its a redone kitchen, a nicer car, and trips).

I started living for someone else's tomorrow the moment we had kids.

I sometimes forget that on this board travel tends to be synonymous with Disney. I could live without WDW, but not without travel as a whole. It is my greatest material pleasure, something I place well above a new/large home, remodeled kitchen, or nice/new car (though not wholly above education - we wouldn't travel if it meant not saving anything for college, nor if it required putting the kids back in public school). I'm happy fixing up my old house bit by bit and I'm happy with my 10yo minivan, but I wouldn't be happy without going new places and having new experiences.

My feeling is, and I know this isn't the norm for our culture but it is in our families, that helping my kids doesn't end when they become adults or graduate college. Our parents have helped us with cars and down payments and gifted college savings for our kids, and we'll happily do the same for our kids when they're adults. If that means taking over the student loan payments for a child struggling to find work in his/her field, that's something we'd gladly do. We've talked a lot about this when it comes to DD and her educational ambitions; we are encouraging her to live within our college-savings means but if she decides a certain school is worth taking on loans we intend to make a graduation gift of taking over the payments for a defined period of time to help her get established. The responsibility for the choice is still hers - loans in her name - but we are willing to support that choice if she shows it to be a good one (meaning she graduates on time, doesn't mess around and need extra semesters/extra debt, etc).

 

[crisi]

Memories are priceless! She will love those memories while studying in college.

Of course memories are priceless, but that doesn't mean they need to cost anything to make. Some of my favorite memories of kids involve toddlers and making brownies (two toddlers covered in brownie mix). My son hitting a home run in a playoff game in forth grade. My daughter singing in the middle school talent show.

If I ask my kids what their favorite memories are, none of them involve vacations - and these are kids who have been to Disney a few times, to Europe, to Hawaii, to Washington DC. Their favorite memories are sleepovers and girl scouts and silly things at school. Heck, none of them involve ME.

 

[imsayin]

Of course memories are priceless, but that doesn't mean they need to cost anything to make. Some of my favorite memories of kids involve toddlers and making brownies (two toddlers covered in brownie mix). My son hitting a home run in a playoff game in forth grade. My daughter singing in the middle school talent show.

If I ask my kids what their favorite memories are, none of them involve vacations - and these are kids who have been to Disney a few times, to Europe, to Hawaii, to Washington DC. Their favorite memories are sleepovers and girl scouts and silly things at school. Heck, none of them involve ME.

And now that my DD has finished her second year of college, she is adding to her favorite memories.

 

[JanaDee]

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over education.

It isn't as black and white as some people are trying to make it.

Some families can both vacation and save for a child's education. It isn't always either/or.

 

[Goldilocks07]

My parents took me on vacations as a kid. We went t Disney a bunch. When college time came, I had a college fund, but I still ended up taking out loans to help cover the cost. Not for one single second have I ever wished my parents took me on fewer vacations. Even when I send in that student loan payment, the memories I have are far more valuable than the burden of those loans. If you think your DD feels the same way, or might 20 years from now, then I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty.

This made me tear up.
Well said.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Balance is important. But most of my girlfriends have never taken their families to Disney and they aren't living lives of austerity. I see more extreme examples of day to day austerity here on this board to get to Disney than I've ever heard described by my middle class friends who save for college. To me, the issue with student loans is that when my husband had them and couldn't find a job right out of college, he had to live a life of austerity - and severe austerity. And he still ended up in bankruptcy because you can't pay loans and afford rent on a part time barista's income. I don't want to see my children living a life of austerity later because I don't give up what are some frankly luxuries (for me, its a redone kitchen, a nicer car, and trips).

I started living for someone else's tomorrow the moment we had kids.

I do agree with the bolded statement above. But I don't know if those people save for college already so they choose to live austerity to go on vacation.

We don't live in austerity and we go on vacation and I don't save for my kids college education. Their father will pay for most of it. It's in our divorce decree that he is responsible for college educations and he has no issues paying for it. I'm sure he will have some kinds of limits, as in, they will have to go in state and try their best to get scholarships and grants.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

Of course memories are priceless, but that doesn't mean they need to cost anything to make. Some of my favorite memories of kids involve toddlers and making brownies (two toddlers covered in brownie mix). My son hitting a home run in a playoff game in forth grade. My daughter singing in the middle school talent show.

If I ask my kids what their favorite memories are, none of them involve vacations - and these are kids who have been to Disney a few times, to Europe, to Hawaii, to Washington DC. Their favorite memories are sleepovers and girl scouts and silly things at school. Heck, none of them involve ME.

Yea that's the thing. I definitely do not rank college *over* vacations. Its just that the vacations don't have to be high end ones like WDW. People find ways to justify to themselves that Disney is "a good bargain", but it's NOT. It's one of the more expensive vacations you can do.

In no way do I think you should sacrifice family time just to save up money for "tomorrow". But you still have to think about tomorrow, and going on expensive vacations when you have other responsibilities is....irresponsible.

 

[Arielle22]

Balance is important. But most of my girlfriends have never taken their families to Disney and they aren't living lives of austerity. I see more extreme examples of day to day austerity here on this board to get to Disney than I've ever heard described by my middle class friends who save for college.

To me, the issue with student loans is that when my husband had them and couldn't find a job right out of college, he had to live a life of austerity - and severe austerity. And he still ended up in bankruptcy because you can't pay loans and afford rent on a part time barista's income. I don't want to see my children living a life of austerity later because I don't give up what are some frankly luxuries (for me, its a redone kitchen, a nicer car, and trips).

I started living for someone else's tomorrow the moment we had kids.

I have no issue with parents helping their children with college (as we are doing) but I do wonder if parents keep expanding what they need to do for their children at their own expense.

What if your child gets out of school and doesn't find a well paying job. Are you going to sacrifice more to help you child out? At what point will your child stand on their own 2 feet and succeed or fail on their own?

Why shouldn't a young adult experience austerity while you have a luxury? I tell my DDs that living a relatively poor lifestyle will give them incentive to get ahead.

 

[Colleen27]

In no way do I think you should sacrifice family time just to save up money for "tomorrow". But you still have to think about tomorrow, and going on expensive vacations when you have other responsibilities is....irresponsible.

But therein lies the heart of the difference of opinion on this subject - to what degree is funding college a parental responsibility? To me, it doesn't rank with food, shelter, and clothing or even quality K-12 education. It is a wonderful thing if parents can provide some or all of the funding for a college education, but I wouldn't call it a responsibility or condemn those who can't or won't provide that funding as irresponsible parents.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

But therein lies the heart of the difference of opinion on this subject - to what degree is funding college a parental responsibility? To me, it doesn't rank with food, shelter, and clothing or even quality K-12 education. It is a wonderful thing if parents can provide some or all of the funding for a college education, but I wouldn't call it a responsibility or condemn those who can't or won't provide that funding as irresponsible parents.

I consider it my responsibility as a parent, as a citizen, and as a person....that I should do everything I can to make my daughter a well educated person capable improving her community, country and the world at large.

It *is* a personal responsibility. Maybe not everyone shares that notion, but I believe it's a primary way of being selfless....and improve on society at large.

The only alternative is to say "It's my money and I can do with it as I please", which only breeds more greed and selfishness.

 

[crisi]

To me, its a matter of turning my kids into independent adults. I think the cards are stacked against someone who doesn't get training beyond high school (and it can be trade school) and they are stacked against someone who enters adult life with debt. That doesn't mean I have to support them for eternity, but it does mean I have to do what is in my power to enable them to support themselves, to give them the best possible start. And for me, that start isn't when they turn eighteen or graduate from high school - its when they have the skills to support themselves without resorting to eating ramen noodles.

I want my kids to be successful and happy - in my experience, both those things are far more achievable without debt - or when your debt is minimal. Both of those things are far more achievable when you have the skills and background to do a job that pays you enough to be able to live - and maybe travel a little, and maybe raise a family, maybe buy a home. The most dependable way to get those skills quickly with no debt is to have parents willing to sacrifice for your education - those few years of getting those skills quickly - spending four years in school instead of six or seven because you had to work, gives you a jump that when you are 28 and thinking of starting a family is a big jump. Or, the other end, not having student loan debt - similar jump - but on the financial side, not the experience end. And dependable - I can't control whether my son's curveball is good enough to get him a scholarship. I can't control whether my daughters grades will be good enough for her to see one. I can control how much of my disposable income I set aside.

But once that's done, I'm not planning on supporting them - they'll have gotten the education to support themselves and they should have no debt - from there, its on them. Yep, they might deliver pizza for a few years because they can't find a job - but at least they won't do it with student loan debt. And that's the difference between living in a crappy apartment, eating ramen and taking the bus to your job as a barista while looking for a job and the same life - with a bankruptcy on your record because the student loan burden is too high.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I consider it my responsibility as a parent, as a citizen, and as a person....that I should do everything I can to make my daughter a well educated person capable improving her community, country and the world at large. It *is* a personal responsibility. Maybe not everyone shares that notion, but I believe it's a primary way of being selfless....and improve on society at large. The only alternative is to say "It's my money and I can do with it as I please", which only breeds more greed and selfishness.

If you're going to bring civil responsibility in the mix then it would be irresponsible to fund any type of education that wouldn't provide a needed service or skill that would arguably (voted on by whom I don't know) improve the world.

No more education majors, too many of those. Lawyers, art, music, acting, business too many of those too. I believe in education and am myself, arguably, over-educated. I also know plenty of college educated people that do absolutely nothing to better the world around them. Conversely plenty of non college educated individuals can and have changed our world and society for the better. To couple the two is quite frankly, a bit ignorant.

That's not to say you wouldn't want to or shouldn't provide the best for your children that you can. I just strongly disagree with the stance that not paying for a child's college is somehow morally or socially irresponsible. All just MHO

 

[Lisa71]

I consider it my responsibility as a parent, as a citizen, and as a person....that I should do everything I can to make my daughter a well educated person capable improving her community, country and the world at large.

It *is* a personal responsibility. Maybe not everyone shares that notion, but I believe it's a primary way of being selfless....and improve on society at large.

The only alternative is to say "It's my money and I can do with it as I please", which only breeds more greed and selfishness.

Not everyone can pay for college for their kids..life happens and many people start out strong but are not able to end the end due to changing circumstances. Our kids are adopted and it was not cheap and that took money from the future. No regrets and small vacations being scrapped will not find their college. Our DS has CP and it is $250 a month for his diapers. He is large and only certain brand fit. Helping kids become successful adults does not have a price tag. I know many who got through college on their own and they are just fine. We will do what we can, but it is not selfish to want memories with your kids. No regrets.

 

[EMode]

But therein lies the heart of the difference of opinion on this subject - to what degree is funding college a parental responsibility? To me, it doesn't rank with food, shelter, and clothing or even quality K-12 education. It is a wonderful thing if parents can provide some or all of the funding for a college education, but I wouldn't call it a responsibility or condemn those who can't or won't provide that funding as irresponsible parents.

I totally agree.

 

[girli565]

But therein lies the heart of the difference of opinion on this subject - to what degree is funding college a parental responsibility? To me, it doesn't rank with food, shelter, and clothing or even quality K-12 education. It is a wonderful thing if parents can provide some or all of the funding for a college education, but I wouldn't call it a responsibility or condemn those who can't or won't provide that funding as irresponsible parents.

I agree with this. Very well said!


No one is going to completely agree on this subject, which is why I stopped commenting on this thread. Especially when it was implied that service careers like teaching and nursing were careers someone would be "stuck" choosing because there's loan forgiveness involved if parents couldn't provide college funding. That's an unfair statement. Not everyone wants to or can afford the education beyond an associates or bachelors degree so they can be lawyers or doctors. Maybe making statements like that is what deters people from going to college and not just the lack of parent funded college funds.

 

[crisi]

Not everyone can pay for college for their kids..life happens and many people start out strong but are not able to end the end due to changing circumstances. Our kids are adopted and it was not cheap and that took money from the future. No regrets and small vacations being scrapped will not find their college. Our DS has CP and it is $250 a month for his diapers. He is large and only certain brand fit. Helping kids become successful adults does not have a price tag. I know many who got through college on their own and they are just fine. We will do what we can, but it is not selfish to want memories with your kids. No regrets.

No, not everyone can afford to save for college and their own retirement. But this is a Disney board and a lot of us have yearly trips in our signature. Previous polls have showed that our household incomes, even on the budget board, tend to be well above the national median. For many of us, not all of us, we can afford to save something if we choose.

Every year we get someone on this board when the expected family contribution from the FAFSA is figured and the scholarships are handed out who is aghast at how much they are expected to contribute towards college. Their assumption was that financial aid would be there for their kids. The assumption that the government makes is that even middle class people can put a few hundred or thousand away every year for eighteen years. If you are going to make the decision not to save for your kids starting before college, at least run some numbers now. Find out how much they can get in subsidized loans (it isn't enough for even community college in many cases) and unsubsidized loans, what your EFC is likely to be, and what sort of position you are likely to be putting your kids when they start making decisions. Be realistic on their chances of getting scholarships - my daughter did years of gymnastics and I live in a hockey town - I've seen a lot of parents dump thousands every year into sports as an investment towards a scholarship - they'd have been MUCH better off with a 529 if that was the goal. I've seen parents of really smart kids who could have gotten plenty of scholarships lay out a lot of money when their very smart child decided to go to a top school - but not one with a ton of aid. (I have friends paying out of pocket for Stanford and a cousin paying for Vassar - and you know, if my kid got into Stanford - we make too much money for their free ride, and its STANFORD). And what sort of jobs they are likely to do at what pay to put themselves through school. And remember that if your kids are little and your career is on a growth path, they are likely to get much less because your career is likely to be in high gear about the time you are filling out the FAFSA. Make an educated decision to trade savings for vacations - if you are educated when your kids are little - whatever decision you make - you are far less likely to say "if I'd known...."

 

[disykat]

No, not everyone can afford to save for college and their own retirement. But this is a Disney board and a lot of us have yearly trips in our signature. Previous polls have showed that our household incomes, even on the budget board, tend to be well above the national median. For many of us, not all of us, we can afford to save something if we choose.

Every year we get someone on this board when the expected family contribution from the FAFSA is figured and the scholarships are handed out who is aghast at how much they are expected to contribute towards college. Their assumption was that financial aid would be there for their kids. The assumption that the government makes is that even middle class people can put a few hundred or thousand away every year for eighteen years. If you are going to make the decision not to save for your kids starting before college, at least run some numbers now. Find out how much they can get in subsidized loans (it isn't enough for even community college in many cases) and unsubsidized loans, what your EFC is likely to be, and what sort of position you are likely to be putting your kids when they start making decisions. Be realistic on their chances of getting scholarships - my daughter did years of gymnastics and I live in a hockey town - I've seen a lot of parents dump thousands every year into sports as an investment towards a scholarship - they'd have been MUCH better off with a 529 if that was the goal. I've seen parents of really smart kids who could have gotten plenty of scholarships lay out a lot of money when their very smart child decided to go to a top school - but not one with a ton of aid. (I have friends paying out of pocket for Stanford and a cousin paying for Vassar - and you know, if my kid got into Stanford - we make too much money for their free ride, and its STANFORD). And what sort of jobs they are likely to do at what pay to put themselves through school. And remember that if your kids are little and your career is on a growth path, they are likely to get much less because your career is likely to be in high gear about the time you are filling out the FAFSA. Make an educated decision to trade savings for vacations - if you are educated when your kids are little - whatever decision you make - you are far less likely to say "if I'd known...."

Excellent post! Although I would have loved some aid for our kids, I was so happy that when we got our FAFSA back (after making college savings plans) I was able to say "that's fair" and make it work for them with minimal debt.

Just as an example, our income, with dh working and me still working part time at that point was less than six figures. Our FAFSA EFC was higher than the cost of attendance at a state school - over 25% of our income. That meant no financial aid except loans - mostly parent plus. The only help my oldest got was local scholarships because he applied for and won. His school gave him nothing because their policy is no merit aid and we didn't qualify for financial aid. When my younger child entered college this year, our EFC was split between the two in college and they both qualified for a little bit of scholarship aid, which thankfully they had good enough grades to get. Aid was stipulated as need AND merit based.

I have one child who probably would have taken out loans and gone to school without our help, another who probably would have chosen to go right to work rather than incur debt because of a computer tech certificate he got in high school. I'm glad they're BOTH getting the college experience!

 

[Colleen27]

I have no issue with parents helping their children with college (as we are doing) but I do wonder if parents keep expanding what they need to do for their children at their own expense.

What if your child gets out of school and doesn't find a well paying job. Are you going to sacrifice more to help you child out? At what point will your child stand on their own 2 feet and succeed or fail on their own?

Why shouldn't a young adult experience austerity while you have a luxury? I tell my DDs that living a relatively poor lifestyle will give them incentive to get ahead.

I agree. Even though we have no problem helping out adult children it is all done with the general belief that everyone starts off struggling and works up to a more comfortable lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with some rice & beans days or those years when "vacation" means time off work spent at home. But by the same token, there's nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy some of the income you've spent decades working up to rather than squirreling away every dime that isn't needed for essential expenses to spare your kids those beans and rice years when they're just starting out.

I consider it my responsibility as a parent, as a citizen, and as a person....that I should do everything I can to make my daughter a well educated person capable improving her community, country and the world at large.

It *is* a personal responsibility. Maybe not everyone shares that notion, but I believe it's a primary way of being selfless....and improve on society at large.

The only alternative is to say "It's my money and I can do with it as I please", which only breeds more greed and selfishness.

There are two flaws in this logic - First of all, you assume that the only way to improve on society at large requires advanced education and that advanced education by definition leads to such a contribution. Education does not determine one's contribution to society - you can make an immense difference without post-secondary education, and you can put a degree to use in the pursuit of greed and selfishness. That's a question of character, values, and purpose, not education.

Second, you assume that greed and selfishness are the only reasons for wanting to enjoy life's experiences which by extension suggests that the only worthwhile life is one lived entirely for others. It is partly selfishness that we travel when we could be saving more for the kids' college or donating more to charity. It is also partly a reflection of our values; we want the kids to grow up with some exposure to the wider world and people who aren't necessarily just like them.

No, not everyone can afford to save for college and their own retirement. But this is a Disney board and a lot of us have yearly trips in our signature. Previous polls have showed that our household incomes, even on the budget board, tend to be well above the national median. For many of us, not all of us, we can afford to save something if we choose.

But the original question wasn't about saving something... The OP and most of the posters who have weighed in on the pro-vacation side have indicated that they are saving something. The guilt arose from not saving more.

Now without knowing specific numbers we don't know if that "something" is meaningful or just a token effort, but in an age of experts screaming from every corner about rapidly rising costs and the total inadequacy of even the best efforts at saving I think it is very easy to feel that guilt if you're anything less than a "cash hoarder" or have a high income that allows for generous savings without much lifestyle sacrifice. To fully fund both college and retirement, according to the adviser we consulted years ago, we should be saving basically every dime of our discretionary income - to reach our goals (80% income in retirement, fully funded college for 3 kids based on projected averages) we should be saving about 65% of our near-median household income, which would be just about every cent after covering food, shelter, and utilities. And although we've consciously rejected that as both undesirable and likely impossible, we still sometimes feel guilty about that choice especially when it comes time to pay for a big, non-essential expense like a vacation.

 

[disnut8]

we take a vacation once a year or so, sometimes less. I save for Disney, we usually go Feb break and it's expensive. I'm a single mom (but my ex husband is in the kids lives) and sometimes I feel guilty taking these trips. This year we are going in August and we can stay on site for the first time for 10 days and it's still $1000 cheaper than off site for a week Feb break.

I feel like I should put that money for college. But we are very frugal except for these vacations, actually we are frugal on the vacations, lol. And we have such a great time at Disney. My DD and I really bond there. She's 15, who knows how much longer she'll still want to go with me. I'm still saving for retirement and college but this trip would've put a nice chunk of change in her college account. Arggghhh, I vacillate between guilt and excitement for going. Do other people feel this way?

I'm 52 and my mother passed in 2005 and my father in December, 2013. When I was growing up, my family went on a two week trip somewhere in the US. Two full weeks. My father planned out everything and saved for the year prior. While we were on one trip, he was planning the next year's one in his mind. College, for him, meant a second mortgage on the house.

Because those trips were when we bonded as a family. My dad, my mom, my sister and me. I wouldn't have traded that time with my family for a college fund. There are many ways to attend college. There are many colleges to attend. You get ONE family.

Flash forward to e now grown up with a son of my own. I instituted a summer family vacation with him and my husband. Not two weeks but ten days. We saved zero for my son's college. My son? He's graduating this summer with a master's degree. I just spent a weekend with him in Gatlinburg, TN and we had a great time remember all the trips we took together when he was growing up.

College is achievable at any time at any place. Vacations might just happen a few times.