Do Prisoners Deserve Christmas Gifts and Cookies?

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

However, I have pity and compassion for YOU, and hope that someday you can learn to forgive, before your anger eats you up from the inside and makes you miserable. No one deserves that either.

Wow....

 

[luvmy3]

That's Ok, we can agree to disagree, I am sure we would probably disagree on a lot of things. That's all part of being individual people.

However, I have pity and compassion for YOU, and hope that someday you can learn to forgive, before your anger eats you up from the inside and makes you miserable. No one deserves that either.

Well thanks but its truly needed. I don't usually spend any time thinking of it, because like I said the person isn't really worth it. That of course doesn't mean I don't have strong opinions on people who choose to be criminals though

 

[Donaldswife]

I don't know why you keep saying that, I know you stand by it, telling me over and over isn't going to make me think you are right.
I respect the way you feel, however there are people who can judge whether these criminals deserve compassion. The fact that you choose not to "judge" them doesn't mean others don't have the right to.

While we aren't speaking specifics here, but can you honestly say to a parent whose child is abducted and murdered, or a rape victim that they don't have a right? Your "nobody" includes those people. So, again you can stand by your statement, but I stand by mine that you are wrong.

I think you may have me confused with another poster. I NEVER said you were wrong. I said I understood how you felt, and I don't think it is "wrong," I was just explaining how I felt, and letting you know that I HAD been a victim of crime and I still feel the way I feel. I honestly don't think you are wrong, I just think we see things differently. And I never said anything about "judging" anyone.

 

[Sorsha]

Wow....

No - no WOW needed - I am honestly being nice, not snarky.

It is my belief that those who cannot learn to forgive others will eventually suffer themselves because of anger they can't let go of.

If LuvMy3 is OK with herself and the choices she has made, then it isn't my place to judge, I just want her to be happy.

 

[luvmy3]

Until you reach that level of desperation for that $100, you can't understand it. and its not necessarily that it justifies it in anyone's mind. It can EXPLAIN, but not EXCUSE.

Forgiveness of someone is about looking past what they did, not necessarily understanding it. If a woman decides to forgive her husband for an affair, she may never really understand what drove him to it. But she chooses to see past it. Same thing, sort of.

If we had chosen not to forgive my cousin and ignored him as his own family did, he may have ended up right back in jail doing the same things. And we would have spent all these years angry and hurt by the things he did. I think our choice benefitted all of us.

It benefited you because he was your family member. This person is a stranger to me, I have no reason to forgive him for my benefit.
This person was probably a junkie, but his reasons make no difference to me, I don't need an explanation. He acted like an animal, he deserved to be punished, he doesn't deserve cookies, presents or compassion from strangers IMO. When one proves they don't respect the lives of others and abide by the laws of our society, then they give up their chance for that.
(I say "he" but that goes for pretty much any criminal whose crime directly effects another human being).

 

[PeterPan09]

Does anyone "deserve" gifts and cookies?

A gift is just that, it's something freely given without the recipient having to "earn" it. At least that's what I always thought it was.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Does anyone "deserve" gifts and cookies?

A gift is just that, it's something freely given without the recipient having to "earn" it. At least that's what I always thought it was.

VERY good point.

 

[luvmy3]

I think you may have me confused with another poster. I NEVER said you were wrong. I said I understood how you felt, and I don't think it is "wrong," I was just explaining how I felt, and letting you know that I HAD been a victim of crime and I still feel the way I feel. I honestly don't think you are wrong, I just think we see things differently. And I never said anything about "judging" anyone.

Yes, I'm sorry I do have you confused with another pp. I'm trying to repsond to a few pps at once.

No - no WOW needed - I am honestly being nice, not snarky.

It is my belief that those who cannot learn to forgive others will eventually suffer themselves because of anger they can't let go of.

If LuvMy3 is OK with herself and the choices she has made, then it isn't my place to judge, I just want her to be happy.

I know you were being nice, and I do thank you for your thoughts, and I am definitely happy with all the choices I have made.
Honestly, I haven't thought about it in awhile, but sometimes it creeps in there when the subject of criminals and forgiveness and compassion comes up.

 

[mrsklamc]

Well, in the Christian faith the ENTIRE point of the faith, and Christmas, is about grace and getting something you DON'T deserve.

 

[Donaldswife]

Yes, I'm sorry I do have you confused with another pp. I'm trying to repsond to a few pps at once.

No problem, we did say a very similar sentence at about the same time, I just didn't want you to think I was trying to start an argument with you...I truly am not!



I know you were being nice, and I do thank you for your thoughts, and I am definitely happy with all the choices I have made.
Honestly, I haven't thought about it in awhile, but sometimes it creeps in there when the subject of criminals and forgiveness and compassion comes up.

I can understand about the creeping into your thoughts. It changed how safe I feel in the world forever. For me though, forgiveness has helped me move on. It wasn't for him, it was for ME. Some people can't or don't want to do that though, and that is OK!

The main reason I responded to your initial post was because I felt you were saying I couldn't understand because I didn't know what it was like to be victimized, and I do. I just wanted to make it known (to everyone, not just you!) that even those who have been in that situation can still feel the way I do.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I agree with the many posters who point out that pragmatic thinking that small gestures like this can benefit society in the long run by helping inmates to see the good in the world, and their own value.

I also agree that the Christian message preaches this type of thing, so if one were Christian I would find it very odd to be opposed to it.

As far as would a nursing home, etc deserve the cookies MORE? I hate to go around ranking charities. There are always those who do. The girl scouts in our area are doing a coat drive for a girls' school in Afghanistan right now. They get told things like local kids deserve the coats more, or that it would be better to sell coats on ebay and donate the money to the Red Cross, etc. Personally I think there are a myriad of charities which do valuable work. There are many causes I care about. Lacking the ability to support them all, I do what most people do: I give to those causes which speak the most to me, and to those supported by those I care about and to those which are "easy" for me to give to (because the fund raising auction is happening in my town, etc) and to those which directly affect me or those I love. I figure everyone else does more or less the same and then it evens out pretty well. So, if one group supports those in prison and another supports those in nursing home then the end result is that both groups get support--which is a good thing.

 

[MIGrandma]

Well, I never said I was a perfect Christian. None of us are. And maybe my opinions on prisoners stem from the fact that my DSIL is a prison guard and oh my goodness, some of the things he tells us...and some of the things he has to put up with from the prisoners. Those things help make me feel that prisoners do not deserve "extras", even at Christmas time. Their family members can give them gifts if they want, but I just feel that there are so many others much more deserving of charities. Prisoners have so much already that they don't deserve, 3 square meals a day, computers, right down to health care, and other things that so many others don't have, including the kids in our schools. No, I do not feel sorry for prisoners, especially the repeat offenders.

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance. Once they get out and get a job and keep their nose clean, then fine, give them a cookie. But not until.

 

[Sorsha]

*DISCLAIMER* This is not meant as a religious post. IMHO religion has nothing to do with it. I just found this online a long time ago, and today's discussion has reminded me of it. I thought then, and still think now, that it was a very useful way of looking at how we deal with things like forgiveness and moving past events that happen to shape our lives. *END DISCLAIMER*

The Buddha was sitting under a tree talking to his disciples when a man came and spit on his face. He wiped it off, and he asked the man, “What next? What do you want to say next?” The man was a little puzzled because he himself never expected that when you spit on somebody’s face, he will ask, “What next?” He had no such experience in his past. He had insulted people and they had become angry and they had reacted. Or if they were cowards and weaklings, they had smiled, trying to bribe the man. But Buddha was like neither, he was not angry nor in any way offended, nor in any way cowardly. But just matter-of-factly he said, “What next?” There was no reaction on his part.

Buddha’s disciples became angry, they reacted. His closest disciple, Ananda, said, “This is too much, and we cannot tolerate it. He has to be punished for it. Otherwise everybody will start doing things like this.”

Buddha said, “You keep silent. He has not offended me, but you are offending me. He is new, a stranger. He must have heard from people something about me, that this man is an atheist, a dangerous man who is throwing people off their track, a revolutionary, a corrupter. And he may have formed some idea, a notion of me. He has not spit on me, he has spit on his notion. He has spit on his idea of me because he does not know me at all, so how can he spit on me?

“If you think on it deeply,” Buddha said, “he has spit on his own mind. I am not part of it, and I can see that this poor man must have something else to say because this is a way of saying something. Spitting is a way of saying something. There are moments when you feel that language is impotent: in deep love, in intense anger, in hate, in prayer. There are intense moments when language is impotent. Then you have to do something. When you are angry, intensely angry, you hit the person, you spit on him, you are saying something. I can understand him. He must have something more to say, that’s why I’m asking, “What next?”

The man was even more puzzled! And Buddha said to his disciples, “I am more offended by you because you know me, and you have lived for years with me, and still you react.”

Puzzled, confused, the man returned home. He could not sleep the whole night. When you see a Buddha, it is difficult, impossible to sleep again the way you used to sleep before. Again and again he was haunted by the experience. He could not explain it to himself, what had happened. He was trembling all over and perspiring. He had never come across such a man; he shattered his whole mind and his whole pattern, his whole past.

The next morning he was back there. He threw himself at Buddha’s feet. Buddha asked him again, “What next? This, too, is a way of saying something that cannot be said in language. When you come and touch my feet, you are saying something that cannot be said ordinarily, for which all words are a little narrow; it cannot be contained in them.” Buddha said, “Look, Ananda, this man is again here, he is saying something. This man is a man of deep emotions.”

The man looked at Buddha and said, “Forgive me for what I did yesterday.”

Buddha said, “Forgive? But I am not the same man to whom you did it. The Ganges goes on flowing, it is never the same Ganges again. Every man is a river. The man you spit upon is no longer here. I look just like him, but I am not the same, much has happened in these twenty-four hours! The river has flowed so much. So I cannot forgive you because I have no grudge against you.”

“And you also are new. I can see you are not the same man who came yesterday because that man was angry and he spit, whereas you are bowing at my feet, touching my feet. How can you be the same man? You are not the same man, so let us forget about it. Those two people, the man who spit and the man on whom he spit, both are no more. Come closer. Let us talk of something else.”

 

[RitaE]

Well, I never said I was a perfect Christian. None of us are. And maybe my opinions on prisoners stem from the fact that my DSIL is a prison guard and oh my goodness, some of the things he tells us...and some of the things he has to put up with from the prisoners. Those things help make me feel that prisoners do not deserve "extras", even at Christmas time. Their family members can give them gifts if they want, but I just feel that there are so many others much more deserving of charities. Prisoners have so much already that they don't deserve, 3 square meals a day, computers, right down to health care, and other things that so many others don't have, including the kids in our schools. No, I do not feel sorry for prisoners, especially the repeat offenders.

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance. Once they get out and get a job and keep their nose clean, then fine, give them a cookie. But not until.

The thing about charity it, it is a personal choice. If you feel that your charitable or Christian efforts are better felt elsewhere that is fine. There are nearly a limitless number of charitable opportunities out there.

The thing is, you get to make those choices for yourself. But as long as the Church in question isn't forcing participation from their volunteers, then they really don't need your blessing or approval. Simply let those who wish make their own choices, the way you get to make yours.

 

[happygirl]

I support a church doing a jail ministry. I believe anyway you can reach people for Christ is good.

 

[luvsJack]

It benefited you because he was your family member. This person is a stranger to me, I have no reason to forgive him for my benefit.
This person was probably a junkie, but his reasons make no difference to me, I don't need an explanation. He acted like an animal, he deserved to be punished, he doesn't deserve cookies, presents or compassion from strangers IMO. When one proves they don't respect the lives of others and abide by the laws of our society, then they give up their chance for that.
(I say "he" but that goes for pretty much any criminal whose crime directly effects another human being).

You have the choice to never forgive this man and to never offer any kindness to him; but that doesn't make it wrong for someone else to do so.

 

[Art 1]

Of course. As long as it's not government funded.

 

[katibosch]

I have two penpals who are in prison, both for murder. (I actively sought them out knowing their crimes). Do I think they deserve to be in prison? Absolutely -- although I do think both of their crimes had an element of justification to them -- one killed a drug dealer, the other a man who was molesting him.

Do I think they deserve nice things? I think that unless you are in prison you would have no idea of the loneliness that is felt by these people. They are truly grateful, in my experience, for any contact or anyone to talk to. One of my penpals has been in prison for about 10 years and he has never had a visitor. His entire family and everyone he knew prior to prison has written him off.

Even a short letter can make their day -- I think even a small token like cookies or something would be amazing to them.

 

[onelilspark]

I think if I have limited resources to share (time, money, whatever it may be) I would be focusing on helping the homeless and hungry during the holiday season.

The fact remains that those in jail have food on their plates and a roof over their heads while there are people in every community that lack basic necessities. I think I would put my limited resources towards helping these people first.

I don't think it's a matter of who "deserves" it, I think it's a matter of a community taking care of its neighbors. And the way I look at it is that those in jail don't *need* socks and cookies, but someone living on the street *needs* a hot meal and a roof over their head.

 

[mrsklamc]

Well, I never said I was a perfect Christian. None of us are.

Thus the reason not to judge. (Log/speck. Religious folks vs.woman caught in adultery. Pharisee praying in church saying 'thank you God that I am not a sinner like THEM' vs. sinner saying 'God have mercy on me, a sinner.') Christianity does not rank "sins" that land someone in jail as worse than sins that do not. The father of the prodigal son threw a banquet as soon as he saw his son, he did not say "Let's see if he keeps his nose clean, THEN he can have a cookie."