Do Obama supporters really, truly

[Charade]

With Obama's Plan there should be a surplus of 700 billion dollars.

By raising taxes from 35% to 39% on those families making more than $250,000 he should have a 700 billion surplus even after the tax breaks are given to the middle class.

That'll be a neat trick because according to www.taxfoundation.org, the total income taxes collected for 2006 was a little over 1 trillion dollars. Where's that 700 billion coming from?


http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/250.html

 

[CPT Tripss]

Think it's okay to take money (increase taxes) from those more wealthy to give (decrease taxes or give tax credits) to people less wealthy?

This is just mind boggling to me, that anyone would agree with it.

Do these people really think it's okay?

What's the incentive to do better financially under the Obama plan, as your increase will be lessor so that others can "share your wealth"?

Hey there OP . . . do you think it's OK that Tennesee gets $1.27 from the federal government for every $1 the taxpayers of that state pay in Federal taxes? http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

That sounds like redisribution of wealth and should not be accepted!

 

[simpilotswife]

First off, you have no idea what my education entails, so your comment is nothing more than an attempted personal attack on me.

As for intelect being a requirement to making money, I know a lot of folks that are dumber than bricks, that make a very good living by having learned a trade. It doesn't take a high degree of intelegence to swing a hamer, or weld a pipe, yet carpenters and plumbers make a good living.

But the point still remains that those that worked hard and put themselves in a possition to succed do not need to be punished for doing so, nor should they be expected to compensate those that chose not do do so themselves.

No attack. You said you made the choice not to educate yourself. I am agreeing with you.

Yes carpenters and plumbers can make a very good living but how many do you know that are making over $250K a year? You do realize that we are talking about the wealthy here, not Joe the Plumber (who I'll bet still hasn't paid his taxes).


Y

 

[eliza61]

Tax breaks to the rich benefit the rich, wealth redistribution benefits the poor. A tax break is the gov't NOT TAKING money that was earned. Wealth redistribution is robbing from one to give to another that did not EARN it. That money belongs to the person who earns it, period. If you want it, go EARN it.

Aah now I get it, I should let the government take my money (and since I'm an medical researcher, Md I'm earning it) and give it to the rich because they have some how earned it. I should then vote for the guy who doesn't give a hoot about education and health care and gives tax breaks for the big corporations because they've done such a great job these last two years creating job growth and the countries infrastructure which I think you mean bridges and roads (since you said does not mean education and health care) are also in piss poor shape. Last but not least 2 days before all heck broke loose was on tv saying the "economy is sound" then asked me for 700 billion bucks.

Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results or
Voting for the same guy part 3 and expecting some thing different.

 

[Alyssa88]

Why is it supposed to be easy? Things that are worth it, like an education, are things that are worth working to obtain. I worked all the way through college. As did my father and my sister. I earned enough to pay for school. I started at the community college and then a state school. Everyone can do it that way. It may take longer but it can be done.

What if you didn't graduate from high school, like 50% of the kids in Philly. I know it is easier to blame the kids then the system but I think we all realize what is logically to blame.

Some kids here are terrified to go to school, for reasons that would probably keep me from work or college classes. They aren't safe.

 

[simpilotswife]

Are you saying poor people are stupid? They just aren't smart enough to "be successful"? That those that don't make it basically can't cause they don't have the mental ability?

No. If you go back and read the original item I was referring to the poster said that she couldn't speak the language that the manager of SAFEWAY was using because she hadn't educated herself in that area. I was referring to that....

There are many smart people who don't make a great deal of money. There are also a great many stupid people who are rich...

 

[NotUrsula]

Originally Posted by Disneycrazymom:

Why is it supposed to be easy? Things that are worth it, like an education, are things that are worth working to obtain. I worked all the way through college. As did my father and my sister. I earned enough to pay for school. I started at the community college and then a state school. Everyone can do it that way. It may take longer but it can be done.

Who said it was supposed to be easy? It never was easy, but now it's da**ed near impossible because of the inflation of college costs and the proliferation of family contribution rules.

The new rules say that if you are under age 25, single and not a Veteran, to get Federal student aid of any kind (even subsidized loans) your parents have to make their financial records available to FAFSA, and they must pay a mandatory contribution, the level of which is determined by the government based on those records. If your folks won't pony up the records, you're SOL. If your parents are stupid about money and are deeply in debt, you are also SOL, even if you had nothing to do with their spending habits.

My Pell grants paid about 50% of my tuition. Just my tuition. I still had to pay my books and my lab fees, plus my rent and utilities (which were all of $90/month back then, and it was hard earning enough to pay for that and for food while carrying a full academic load.) I couldn't work more than 30 hours per week without skipping sleep pretty much altogether, but there were weeks when I did, when the opportunity came my way. I worked two jobs, one in the university library during the day, and one waiting tables at night in a banquet facility. I couldn't attend a commuter school -- the closest one was 50 miles away in a town that didn't have much rental property available; too far to commute by bicycle. My mother didn't drive, and we didn't have a vehicle, and there was no bus service, either. In the course of my college career I was on two occasions struck by vehicles while riding my bike home from work at night; by God's grace I managed to walk away both times, because I didn't have the money for an emergency room in those days.

I didn't say all of this so that anyone could be impressed by how hard I worked; I said it to illustrate what hard was under the old rules. The old rules were a lot more generous than the new ones, so God help the poor kid who is trying to crawl out of poverty now.

Yes, you can wait until you are 25 to start your college education with federal aid, but only a very tiny percentage of people who start at that age actually end up graduating. Real life tends to get in the way by the time you are that age, especially if you are dirt poor and living in a family that opposes the idea of higher education. You might also be able to join the military, or maybe not -- I tried that at the time; my hearing wasn't good enough.

PS: One more point: heaven forfend that those poor kids who *do* make it out might want to take up a career like teaching or social work; something that helps people with backgrounds like their own. They can't even if they want to, because the debt load they end up graduating under usually precludes choosing a career on any other basis than how much money it will return. What kind of a country will this be if only those from privileged backgrounds can afford to enter public service?

 

[Colleen27]

Nobody is saying that and you know it. Mental ability has nothing to do with rich or poor. Drive has everything to do with where you are on the financial spectrum. If you are driven to do better than those around you, no matter what neighborhood or school, you are going to do better than them. Simple as that. Plumbers can and do make good money, if they are driven to work hard. I've seen some very "smart" people on welfare, because they lack the drive to provide for themselves. Its shameful. If everyone trully worked to their fullest potential then we would all have a higher standard of living because everybody would be contributing more. You know what sucks about that though? This discussion would still be taking place. There will always be those that have more in this world. LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

I think that's a flawed assumption. We as a society will always need people to fill low-skill jobs, and as long as we (collectively) feel that the people doing those jobs do not deserve to be able to make ends meet in return for their work, we will have an underprivileged class. No matter how hard people work, we'll always need more retail clerks, burger flippers, and waitresses than CEOs or even plumbers.

 

[Colleen27]

Why is it supposed to be easy? Things that are worth it, like an education, are things that are worth working to obtain. I worked all the way through college. As did my father and my sister. I earned enough to pay for school. I started at the community college and then a state school. Everyone can do it that way. It may take longer but it can be done.

I don't think everyone can do it that way. When you're working and barely making ends meet, there's nothing left over for college. The cheap state university I'll be transferring to costs about 10K/year in tuition - no small amount when you're living paycheck to paycheck. And right now, with the credit situation, many students are finding they cannot even borrow the money they need to complete their educations.

 

[dennis99ss]

Sorry
I got tired reading this thread, so i just jumped to the end.

Re: the OP original inquiry


I do not see a problem with it in these times.

Why, because I believe that trickle down is not working, and the widening difference between classes is evidence of such. I believe that the economy must be rebuilt from the bottom up this time, instead of the top down. the tax policies of taxing over 250, in theory, will allow the middle and lower classes more spending dollars, and dollars that they will spend, on products and services, which those dollars will then make their way up the food chain, and benefit the high wage earners, as well as the middle and lower earners, becayuse of a strengthening economy.

And, yes, i am effected by the tax policies of both candidates. I am part owner of a business, and earn a decent wage. However, although tax wise, we may take a hit, I believe that in the long run it is better for the economy, and thus better for my financial well being.

While the argument may be "redistribution of wealth" such happens in every gov't program. Social security, medicare, medicaid, grants for education, agriculture, bridges to no where, projectors in musuems, etc. etc. Taxes, all taxes, redistribute wealth. If the proposed increase is so abhorent for those above 250, why have we not heard the same cry out for the recessive sales tax, which, by its nature, likely hurts the lower earners proportunately greater than higher earners.

 

[Sk8Leigh]

They can't affor to move. Trust me, if they could they would.

Like Jennifer Hudson's mom moved out of Englewood? Jennifer could have afforded to move her anywhere, but she didn't want to move.

 

[Carl]

So, in conclusion - YES, they really, truly do.

 

[SplashMtnCrew]

I don't care what others do. Like I said ***I*** could not live like the rich and famous on a $1000! And I really don't know of anyone who could, so I don't believe all these crazy stories I hear.

And franky I don't get it; how in the hell do you people know so much about other peoples finances?? I mean I know my parents stuff, mainly because I am nosy and know all their passwords, but beyond them I couldn't tell you what my best friends or own siblings make in a year, how much debt they have, or how they pay for the things they buy!

And I thought one of the main things you have to list on your food stamps application is your vehicle!

All I know is *I* pay my taxes and don't b|tch and moan about it all day long or whine about how my money is being stolen! I mean get the **** over it and deal!

Wow...
1.You don't care what others do....and that also includes what they do with your money.
2. Knowing other people's finances...sometimes that knowledge is gained through a job/profession, other times that information is freely shared.
3. You don't believe these crazy stories you hear...so obviously you are the reader of minds and know what is truth and what isn't.
4. Vehicle and food stamps...that's easily avoided, there are many ways to use/abuse the system. That's not rocket science.
5. Get over and deal...that means sit back and do nothing, don't try to correct a wrong deed, put the Constitution aside, and wait for that magic gov't check to roll on in.
6. Profanity, whether written or implied...is not to be done/tolerated on DIS. However it is a direct reflection of communication skills, so please don't direct your vulgarities at me again.

 

[chrisw127]

NVDisMom- First of all, I do not think you read my entire post. I said I didn't think the solution was to "throw money" at people who need it, but instead to invest it into the education system. I do think that giving people money who most need it would be beneifical but certainly not a solutiong ot the problems I have outlined. Funding of the education system needs to be centralized.

Second of all- I



They can't affor to move. Trust me, if they could they would. Like myself, this is the LAST place I wanted to live in the city, unfortunately this is my only option.

Even if the kids go to school and try hard, it is a major struggle. They have WAY less resources. In fact, many children here don't even have the same teacher during the year because so many leave. The books are old and many kids have to share. They do poorly on tests because of the lack of resources and get punished for their performance by being given less resources. It is a cycle. I mean, I personally would have a hard time going to a school knowing I could be stabbed in class.

These kids are dealing with way more than they should. I see too many memorials for dead children struck by stray bullets, and too many kids crying at them. These kids become to desensitized to gunshots and dead bodies because they have to be.


Yes, your parents did well and theirs did not. Why are they punished and forced to repeat the same cycle?

I don't understand how we can expect somebody who may have been lucky enough to graduate from a philly high school (50% chance of graduating) to go to college or figure out a life plan when they have only recived an 8th grade education (that is what, on average, kids graduating from a philly school have).


I may be dirt poor right now but I had one advantage, my somewhat decent education (not a good district or good scores but good enough for somebody lookng to make it). Because of that I was able to go to college and I have a chance of making it. I didn't grow up in the ghetto, I just have to live here now.

Environment affects development. These kids grow up cold and hard, as a form of adaptationt o their environment. The characteristics so many look down upon are what actually benefit their survival.

I feel liek this should be something most can agree on. Take a little money from the wealthy and put into our education system.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Cor44432]

Close every corporate tax loophole that exists (which is another form of redistribution of wealth)........stop sending my money to Iraq to the tune of
10 Billion dollars a month to subsidize the iraqi people...........and then I'll
listen about a 4% tax increase on the wealthiest 5% of this great nation.

What happened to "Country First"...........or does that slogan die out when
it comes to the "trickle down" economic theory??

 

[dennis99ss]

country first only happens in the mccain camp if it benefits the wealthiest of individuals, and allows free reign over markets by comopanies and individuals who have no regard for the well being of others as long as their pocketbooks are fattened.

McCain, S&L bailout
McCain, - in favor of dereg. financial marketss-----market bailout
McCain, in favor of doing the same to healthcare----future bailout. (of course, the rich get richer, the poor pay the tab.

 

[simpilotswife]

I think that's a flawed assumption. We as a society will always need people to fill low-skill jobs, and as long as we (collectively) feel that the people doing those jobs do not deserve to be able to make ends meet in return for their work, we will have an underprivileged class. No matter how hard people work, we'll always need more retail clerks, burger flippers, and waitresses than CEOs or even plumbers.

 

[Planogirl]

With Obama's Plan there should be a surplus of 700 billion dollars.

By raising taxes from 35% to 39% on those families making more than $250,000 he should have a 700 billion surplus even after the tax breaks are given to the middle class.
----------------------------

According to the following website the Obama plan would add 700 billion dollars to the Federal budget.

With McCain's plan the Federal budget would have a 600 billion dollar deficit.

Obama, McCain tax plans
June 30, 2008

John McCain's tax plans would have everybody pay a little less in taxes with the wealthiest paying a lot less. Barack Obama's plan would have a the wealthy pay a lot more and would give middle- and lower-income people bigger breaks than McCain's plans. Obama would raise income and capital gains taxes on earners over $250,000. McCain would cut the estate tax. Obama would raise it on estates over $3.5 million.

The tax plans Obama McCain
$227,000 - a year - plus $23,000 more $15,000 less
$112,000 - $227,000 (15% of population) $2,300 less $3,200 less
$66,000 - $112,000 (20% of population) $1,290 less ($500 per worker tax credit for $0 to $150,000) $1,009 less
$38,000 - $66,000 (20% of population) $1,042 less $319 less
$19,000 - $38,000 (20% of population) $892 less $113 less
$0 - $19,000 (20% of population) $567 less $19 less
Tax breaks for all: College credit: $4,000 a year per student in college Double dependent credit: from $3,500 to $7,000
Impact of tax changes on federal budget: Returns $700 billion Costs $600 billion
Source: Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. Numbers are estimates and averages.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031678,obamamccaintaxplans.article

---------------------------------------------
* Please note Numbers are estimates and averages.

That is why the top figure on the chart is $227,000 - a year ..... They are taking the average of individuals making over $200,000 and the number of families making over $250,000 a year to come with that figure.

Obama's was not to increase tax individuals making less than $200,000 or families making less than $250,000.

----------------------------------------

Again:

Per the Tax Policy Center, here is how Obama's tax plan breaks down for individuals:
$0-$18,891 = $567 tax cut
$18,982-$37,595 = $892 tax cut
$37,596-$66,354 = $1,118 tax cut
$66,355-$111,645 = $1,264 tax cut
$111,646-$160,972 = $2,135 tax cut
$160,973-$226,918 = $2,796 tax cut

$226,919-$603,402 = $121 tax increase


$603,403-$2.87 million = $93,709 tax

$2.87 million-plus = $542,882 tax increase

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/28/1600845.aspx

People keep ignoring the numbers and just go on about the talking points. I wonder why?

 

[SeeVee]

I think attitudes like this are a big problem in the world today, not exclusive to the United States -- everyone's so focused on ME ME ME, and many are not willing to help out their fellow man.

I don't see a problem with imposing higher taxes on those who make $$$$$, if the end result is a better way of life for all people.

Okay.. flame suit's on..

BTW, I won't be offended if anyone calls me a socialist, which I imagine is going to happen in 3...2...1...

If you want a "better way of life" DAMMIT work for it.

If I get a federal welfare check from Obama,,,I am going to send it to the RNC, I have never made a political donation in my life. It isnt my money and I dont want it.

 

[Colleen27]

country first only happens in the mccain camp if it benefits the wealthiest of individuals, and allows free reign over markets by comopanies and individuals who have no regard for the well being of others as long as their pocketbooks are fattened.

McCain, S&L bailout
McCain, - in favor of dereg. financial marketss-----market bailout
McCain, in favor of doing the same to healthcare----future bailout. (of course, the rich get richer, the poor pay the tab.

Exactly. As a friend of mine so aptly put it, the Republican position is to privatize profits and socialize losses.