Do muzzles really work on mean dogs?

[Disneyland1084]

My father in law's dog isn't the typical loving, golden retriever. Personality wise, he takes after my father in law. This dog is conceited, growls at people, just not very friendly, like my FIL. FIL lives three houses down and is in very poor health. I don't take Buddy (his dog) on walks very often because he's so unpredictable. I took him out three weeks ago and the first person he sees he growls out. So I'm wondering if a muzzle would stop that? I've mentioned a muzzle to my FIL and he says he doesn't want people to think Buddy's mean. Um hello, he IS mean. FIL is in the early stages of dementia, so I'm thinking of getting a muzzle anyway and just take him out the back door. He wouldn't notice if I did that. Please don't slam me for that because I might be inheriting this dog when FIL dies. The only times he gets walks is when I take him. Any suggestions on muzzles would be great.

 

[Lillychilly]

First, I would get him checked by a vet and a professional trainer to see what you are really dealing with. Good luck!

 

[Disneyland1084]

First, I would get him checked by a vet and a professional trainer to see what you are really dealing with. Good luck!

I think that's a really good idea, but FIL is too cheap to pay for that. Buddy's 9, and for the first 8 years of his life he lived out in the country. So he's really never socialized with very many people or dogs.

 

[hereyago]

May I ask, when Buddy growls at people, do you yank on his leash with a resounding NO!?

Is he a good walker or does he pull towards the people?

You say your FIL is in poor health, so I doubt this pup gets exercised like he should :a tired dog is a good pup


If he is too cheap to pay, then it falls on you if you will be inheriting Buddy when FIL passes.

 

[Disneyland1084]

May I ask, when Buddy growls at people, do you yank on his leash with a resounding NO!?

Is he a good walker or does he pull towards the people?

1. Yes, I do, then he stops, most of the time. But then he sees another person.... Like my FIL, he's a smart @@@!

2. He's a good walker and doesn't pull. He walks fast though. OMG the time he got off the leash I chased him down the street. I was SOOOO mad!

 

[lullwater]

Our untrained inherited golden doodle from a farm quickly learned that barking while on a walk led to him being muzzled; cause and effect. Walk a block and immediately after a bark make a strong command and muzzle. Un-muzzle after a bit and repeat step one until he learns. Shouldn’t take long. We bought a cheap appropriately sized Velcro connector type muzzle off of Amazon. Hope this helps and great on you for taking the time with Buddy.

 

[hereyago]

1. Yes, I do, then he stops, most of the time. But then he sees another person.... Like my FIL, he's a smart @@@!

Lol,possibly, But honestly since he hasn't been around a lot of people,it is going to take time for him to see a person and not growl or bark. And is there anyway (not sure if your time restraints ) to play with him And get him a little tired before you walk him?
2. He's a good walker and doesn't pull. He walks fast though. OMG the time he got off the leash I chased him down the street. I was SOOOO mad!

He sounds like he is still got energy,lol.

 

[CookieandOatmeal]

This sounds more like a socialization issue. Why don't you try some positive reinforcement methods like treating when he doesn't growl at someone on sight. Instead of taking him for a walk on the street, take him somewhere like an outside shopping center and just expose him to people. Pick a spot where it's not super busy and if he barks, tell him no and redirect. If he looks at the person and doesn't bark, praise and treat. Gradually move to walks on the street if he is making good improvements. People think muzzles are the perfect solution to everything but most of the time, dogs don't get why they are being muzzled plus you're really not doing anything to correct the problem. Good luck!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My father in law's dog isn't the typical loving, golden retriever. Personality wise, he takes after my father in law. This dog is conceited, growls at people, just not very friendly, like my FIL. FIL lives three houses down and is in very poor health. I don't take Buddy (his dog) on walks very often because he's so unpredictable. I took him out three weeks ago and the first person he sees he growls out. So I'm wondering if a muzzle would stop that? I've mentioned a muzzle to my FIL and he says he doesn't want people to think Buddy's mean. Um hello, he IS mean. FIL is in the early stages of dementia, so I'm thinking of getting a muzzle anyway and just take him out the back door. He wouldn't notice if I did that. Please don't slam me for that because I might be inheriting this dog when FIL dies. The only times he gets walks is when I take him. Any suggestions on muzzles would be great.

1. Yes, I do, then he stops, most of the time. But then he sees another person.... Like my FIL, he's a smart @@@!

2. He's a good walker and doesn't pull. He walks fast though. OMG the time he got off the leash I chased him down the street. I was SOOOO mad!

Since you may be inheriting this dog I will give you my cents, since I have experience using a muzzle with dog walking because I have used it with my own dog.

Number one is trust. Dogs are lashing out because of the lack of trust. This is just to understand up front because now you will be able to tailor your training with him. And have that in your mind. You are not torturing this dog by using a muzzle, you are communicating to the dog the behavior you expect and that when I am walking you, you are safe. I will take care of it. The more walking you do the more the dog will trust you.

Second since you mentioned he escaped off the leash, you DO NOT have him leashed safely. Part of that trust thing with the dog. He is going to take advantage.

I recommend also using a prong collar when you train with walking to start with. Now I have not gotten it yet, but I am considering getting the plastic prong collar touted by the informercial "The Perfect Dog". I have an old dog that I still use the prong collar for training and this guy claims it is safer than the metal prong collars. How well it works, I do not know.

Never use a flexi leash with this dog, ever. There is no control and it is not safe for you or the dog.

Nylon leashes and collars? Throw them away. You need solid strong leather. My dogs have "GUN DOG" collars and leashes. They are strong with an additional O ring at the top of the collar so you can leash it at the top and not the bottom by the buckle.

The reason I recommend starting with the muzzle and prong collar is because the dog will get the message pretty quick that you expect him to follow your lead and not the other way around on a walk.

When you do start using these items, people will look at you like you are walking Godzilla, it is true, but so what.

I also recommend using a "reward system" right away for putting on the muzzle and prong collar. Lots of verbal praise! The dogs do not like these training tools however if it is necessary then do it. Eventually you will be able to walk without them. Takes time.

I do have to break out the prong collar from time to time, the muzzle, never. Good Luck!

 

[Disneyland1084]

He sounds like he is still got energy,lol.[/QUOTE

Playing with him before a walk is a good idea, but the only problem is is that FIL's house smells really bad.

 

[hereyago]

Oh, ugh.

 

[sonnyjane]

This sounds more like a socialization issue. Why don't you try some positive reinforcement methods like treating when he doesn't growl at someone on sight. Instead of taking him for a walk on the street, take him somewhere like an outside shopping center and just expose him to people. Pick a spot where it's not super busy and if he barks, tell him no and redirect. If he looks at the person and doesn't bark, praise and treat. Gradually move to walks on the street if he is making good improvements. People think muzzles are the perfect solution to everything but most of the time, dogs don't get why they are being muzzled plus you're really not doing anything to correct the problem. Good luck!

This. I have a real problem with the title of this thread too. A dog that has lived in virtual isolation only seeing essentially one person for 8 of his 9 years is obviously going to have a strong response to strangers. It doesn't make the dog inherently "mean". This is absolutely a socialization issue and that's what I would address.

 

[pat fan]

This. I have a real problem with the title of this thread too.

Some dogs are jerks. Trust me. That said, this dog needs exercise and socialization. Hard at this point since he's older, but it can be done. Good for you OP in planning on taking care of the dog and not dumping him

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It is an interesting situation. It's not your dog, for one thing. You can't really take the liberties with this dog that you take with your own dog. But I do appreciate you're trying to get him some exercise and work with him, knowing he might be yours someday. I would just say, "Warning, Will Robinson!" there are a lot of potential problems here. Do you have any experience working with a difficult dog at all? Frankly, I am worried about YOU and OTHERS potentially getting hurt. Dogs who growl often back up their warning with a bite if things don't go to their liking. You could be trying to get the muzzle on the dog when the dog decides he doesn't quite like that idea, with you, who he's not so sure about, and he solves the problem the best way he knows how, and now you're dealing with a bite. Do you by any chance have a fenced in yard? I would probably start by playing with him there and starting to build a relationship, first. See if he'll fetch a ball. At age nine, he's not a spring chicken and he may not be able to do much, but see. Part of his problem *could be* that he's in pain. If that's the case, he may need to be on pain medication first, before you do anything. (Which, of course, requires a health eval.) If he responds positively to play in the yard, perhaps you could begin venturing out for walks. But be very cautious. It sounds like you don't know this dog very well and don't know what his triggers are. You don't want him to bite anyone, or jump on anyone, etc. Be very careful about letting people come up and pat him, you just don't know how he'll behave. I don't have a huge issue with a muzzle, but it won't necessarily solve all your problems. If a dog hurts someone by jumping on them and knocking them down, you're just as liable as if the dog bites someone. And you could potentially be liable even if it's not your dog, if you're in charge of the dog. Not saying this to scare you or to change your mind about taking the dog out, but I am saying there are a lot of different issues here at play. It can be a difficult challenge taking on a dog that's never had any training or socialization at all.

 

[sonnyjane]

It is an interesting situation. It's not your dog, for one thing. You can't really take the liberties with this dog that you take with your own dog. But I do appreciate you're trying to get him some exercise and work with him, knowing he might be yours someday. I would just say, "Warning, Will Robinson!" there are a lot of potential problems here. Do you have any experience working with a difficult dog at all? Frankly, I am worried about YOU and OTHERS potentially getting hurt. Dogs who growl often back up their warning with a bite if things don't go to their liking. You could be trying to get the muzzle on the dog when the dog decides he doesn't quite like that idea, with you, who he's not so sure about, and he solves the problem the best way he knows how, and now you're dealing with a bite. Do you by any chance have a fenced in yard? I would probably start by playing with him there and starting to build a relationship, first. See if he'll fetch a ball. At age nine, he's not a spring chicken and he may not be able to do much, but see. Part of his problem *could be* that he's in pain. If that's the case, he may need to be on pain medication first, before you do anything. (Which, of course, requires a health eval.) If he responds positively to play in the yard, perhaps you could begin venturing out for walks. But be very cautious. It sounds like you don't know this dog very well and don't know what his triggers are. You don't want him to bite anyone, or jump on anyone, etc. Be very careful about letting people come up and pat him, you just don't know how he'll behave. I don't have a huge issue with a muzzle, but it won't necessarily solve all your problems. If a dog hurts someone by jumping on them and knocking them down, you're just as liable as if the dog bites someone. And you could potentially be liable even if it's not your dog, if you're in charge of the dog. Not saying this to scare you or to change your mind about taking the dog out, but I am saying there are a lot of different issues here at play. It can be a difficult challenge taking on a dog that's never had any training or socialization at all.

This times 100.

 

[tzolkin]

I can't see how a muzzle would help anything in this situation (except prevent someone from getting bit if you don't have control over the dog). Maybe I'm misinformed about how muzzles work, but I would think the dog would be just as likely to growl and lunge at strangers whether he is wearing a muzzle or not. I would also think for some dogs, just being muzzled if they never have before would increase their stress level and maybe make them even more reactive.

We were given a muzzle when we adopted our greyhound (they are used to wearing them whenever they go outside), but it was only used for the initial introduction to our smaller dog. He has never barked or growled, but it seemed like he would have been able to with the muzzle on.

If you and your father don't have the money to hire a professional to help you work with the dog, I would recommend at least doing some research on reactive dogs. It will likely require many months (or longer) of dedicated training on your part to see improvement. Look up desensitization and counter-conditioning (basically getting him to associate seeing other dogs and people with something positive rather than being afraid/reactive). In the meantime, it may be best to avoid getting close enough to strangers and dogs to provoke a reaction. This may mean turning around and walking the other way, going down side streets, crossing the road, etc. You may feel like a crazy person, but keeping him under his threshold will allow you to make more progress than putting him into an overwhelming stressful situation where he feels like he needs to "be mean". The idea would be that over time you can decrease the distance at which he has a reaction. Maybe now, he reacts to other dogs at 100 feet, but eventually you may be able to get him to be comfortable walking 20 feet from another dog. (You may never get him to the point of being able to pass another dog on the sidewalk or meet face-to-face, but it's possible)

 

[Lillychilly]

I'm going to restate, get at least a check up at a vet. He could be in pain, could need anxiety meds..... vets are great for help with behavioral issues as a first step.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

This. I have a real problem with the title of this thread too. A dog that has lived in virtual isolation only seeing essentially one person for 8 of his 9 years is obviously going to have a strong response to strangers. It doesn't make the dog inherently "mean". This is absolutely a socialization issue and that's what I would address.

I agree. T

It is an interesting situation. It's not your dog, for one thing. You can't really take the liberties with this dog that you take with your own dog. But I do appreciate you're trying to get him some exercise and work with him, knowing he might be yours someday. I would just say, "Warning, Will Robinson!" there are a lot of potential problems here. Do you have any experience working with a difficult dog at all? Frankly, I am worried about YOU and OTHERS potentially getting hurt. Dogs who growl often back up their warning with a bite if things don't go to their liking. You could be trying to get the muzzle on the dog when the dog decides he doesn't quite like that idea, with you, who he's not so sure about, and he solves the problem the best way he knows how, and now you're dealing with a bite. Do you by any chance have a fenced in yard? I would probably start by playing with him there and starting to build a relationship, first. See if he'll fetch a ball. At age nine, he's not a spring chicken and he may not be able to do much, but see. Part of his problem *could be* that he's in pain. If that's the case, he may need to be on pain medication first, before you do anything. (Which, of course, requires a health eval.) If he responds positively to play in the yard, perhaps you could begin venturing out for walks. But be very cautious. It sounds like you don't know this dog very well and don't know what his triggers are. You don't want him to bite anyone, or jump on anyone, etc. Be very careful about letting people come up and pat him, you just don't know how he'll behave. I don't have a huge issue with a muzzle, but it won't necessarily solve all your problems. If a dog hurts someone by jumping on them and knocking them down, you're just as liable as if the dog bites someone. And you could potentially be liable even if it's not your dog, if you're in charge of the dog. Not saying this to scare you or to change your mind about taking the dog out, but I am saying there are a lot of different issues here at play. It can be a difficult challenge taking on a dog that's never had any training or socialization at all.

That is why a prong collar is necessary I think, over a muzzle at first.

We did prong collar and muzzle. Collar and muzzle. Now we just use the prong collar if needed.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I can't see how a muzzle would help anything in this situation (except prevent someone from getting bit if you don't have control over the dog). Maybe I'm misinformed about how muzzles work, but I would think the dog would be just as likely to growl and lunge at strangers whether he is wearing a muzzle or not. I would also think for some dogs, just being muzzled if they never have before would increase their stress level and maybe make them even more reactive.

We were given a muzzle when we adopted our greyhound (they are used to wearing them whenever they go outside), but it was only used for the initial introduction to our smaller dog. He has never barked or growled, but it seemed like he would have been able to with the muzzle on.

If you and your father don't have the money to hire a professional to help you work with the dog, I would recommend at least doing some research on reactive dogs. It will likely require many months (or longer) of dedicated training on your part to see improvement. Look up desensitization and counter-conditioning (basically getting him to associate seeing other dogs and people with something positive rather than being afraid/reactive). In the meantime, it may be best to avoid getting close enough to strangers and dogs to provoke a reaction. This may mean turning around and walking the other way, going down side streets, crossing the road, etc. You may feel like a crazy person, but keeping him under his threshold will allow you to make more progress than putting him into an overwhelming stressful situation where he feels like he needs to "be mean". The idea would be that over time you can decrease the distance at which he has a reaction. Maybe now, he reacts to other dogs at 100 feet, but eventually you may be able to get him to be comfortable walking 20 feet from another dog. (You may never get him to the point of being able to pass another dog on the sidewalk or meet face-to-face, but it's possible)

Since I have used one, it works by giving the person peace of mind that they will not bite others, dogs, or the handler when walking.

Until you gain control of the dog on the walk, a muzzle is a good idea.

I will give you the example of WHY we had to use it. We would walk our dogs miles everyday. When you walk dogs that much you are bound to have loose dogs at some point. Or heaven forbid people that walk off leash and yell to you their dog is FRIENDLY. (Well guess what, mine isn't!) When we lived in TX and the dogs were much younger this was a common thing.

Just thought I would throw that perspective out there.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

That is why a prong collar is necessary I think, over a muzzle at first.

We did prong collar and muzzle. Collar and muzzle. Now we just use the prong collar if needed.

I don't disagree, necessarily, but I am not clear on how much experience the OP has with dogs at this point. I think she would need to be taught a lot of things as far as equipment and methods go. I think she should probably work with her vet to find a good trainer for this type of situation, ie a potentially dangerous one. I see people using prong collars incorrectly all the time.