Divorce

[auntpolly]

Thanks to everyone who replied, but I really would like an honest with discussion with a Christian who is against Gay marriage, but doesn't have the same conviction to end divorce, given Jesus was alot more clear about how he felt about divorce.

I would think that a Christian who took the bible literally could never ever remarry, anyway,(unless their husband had been and adulterer) because that marriage would be based on sin - adultry. I would really love to hear what those folks have to say.

 

[TDC Nala]

Thanks to everyone who replied, but I really would like an honest with discussion with a Christian who is against Gay marriage, but doesn't have the same conviction to end divorce, given Jesus was alot more clear about how he felt about divorce.

Interesting that the original post said absolutely nothing about gay marriage...is that what you really wanted to talk about?

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I'm just responding to the Original Question- not the side questions for now-

I think it has a lot to do with an increasingly "disposable" culture.

A high school student was discussing with another student that she throws her clothes away once they are a year or two old. She says once they are more than a year old she doesn't want to wear them anymore.

I've discovered whole sheets of construction paper folded in half and thrown away.

Computers are defaced with graffiti and when this was discussed the response was "So what, the school will buy new ones."

My nephews have a basement full of toys and electronics they don't use. When a new gaming system comes out, last year's model is "garbage".

My SIL buys a new patio set every two years, new china on a whim, and just bought 5 new Coach purses in the past month.

People have a tendency to switch jobs much more often, to lease cars or get new cars every few years. People leave leftovers on restaurant tables. People drink half a cup of coffee and throw away the rest.

Compare this to my grandmother who would rinse out plastic bags, make soup out of leftovers, save chicken fat to cook with, etc. People in her generation (in general) took better care of their things and tried to make them last. They darned socks, saved fabric from clothes that were worn out or unstylish, passed down no longer needed toys instead of throwing them away, and tried to follow "Waste not, want not".

I really think this philosophy, this attitude taught people loyalty. They were caring and compassionate to others because they were taught to see the value in everything. I don't think people invest much energy in upkeeping things- at least not as much as they used to. I think we have an idea that things should work perfectly or just get new. To a certain extent this transfers to our attitudes towards people. If things aren't working perfectly, just get a new one. I think that when we throw away so many things we have a tendency to think differently and just not appreciate what we have as much- whether it's a thing or a person.

 

[disykat]

Thanks to everyone who replied, but I really would like an honest with discussion with a Christian who is against Gay marriage, but doesn't have the same conviction to end divorce, given Jesus was alot more clear about how he felt about divorce.

I would think that a Christian who took the bible literally could never ever remarry, anyway,(unless their husband had been and adulterer) because that marriage would be based on sin - adultry. I would really love to hear what those folks have to say.

While I'm sure you can find some people who are against gay marriage that are not against divorce, I just don't think it's that common. I think you're going to have a hard time finding someone who is going to say "make divorce as easy as possible for straight people, just don't let gay people marry".

I suppose I would be called "against" both of them - although I don't really think it's up to me and don't really have the "conviction" to judge others decisions. I see the need for legal gay unions, but would rather see them called something else rather than redefining marriage. I am also "against" divorce in that I consider it a last option, not an easy way out.

Honestly, I don't personally know anyone - Christian or otherwise - who is "pro-divorce". Even the divorced people I know who say their divorce was the best thing that could have happened in their circumstance are not "pro-divorce".

 

[auntpolly]

Honestly, I don't personally know anyone - Christian or otherwise - who is "pro-divorce". Even the divorced people I know who say their divorce was the best thing that could have happened in their circumstance are not "pro-divorce".

Of course not, but when it happens, it's not looked upon as such a big deal. Many go on to remarry. No one is pro-divorce until they want one for themselves.

As for me really wanting to talk about gay marriage, I didn't start thinking about that, but as I thought about how so many religious people don't seem to have a problem with divorce any more, i thought, "hey, that's a little hypocritical if they don't think gay people should be able to get married". I mean, they are kind of defining "the sanctity of marriage" to suit themselves.

 

[salmoneous]

I'm wondering if anyone will chime in to the thread and suggest that divorce is a good thing. So far, everyone (I think) has spoken from the standpoint that marriage should be forever and ever and that divorce only comes about when one or both people in the marriage do something wrong or don't try hard enough. Is anyone willing to suggest that sometimes people do nothing wrong - that some marriages work better as a 10 or 20 year thing than a lifetime thing - that people can change and grow and reach a point when it is better for both of them to be divorced than to be married?

For the record, I'm married 14 years now and can't possibly image ever being anything than married to my wife. But I do know other couples that have grown apart - not due to anything wrong that either did - and divorce was the best option. 15 years after their marriage they had both become different people, people who shouldn't be married to each other.

 

[Christine]

I'm wondering if anyone will chime in to the thread and suggest that divorce is a good thing. So far, everyone (I think) has spoken from the standpoint that marriage should be forever and ever and that divorce only comes about when one or both people in the marriage do something wrong or don't try hard enough. Is anyone willing to suggest that sometimes people do nothing wrong - that some marriages work better as a 10 or 20 year thing than a lifetime thing - that people can change and grow and reach a point when it is better for both of them to be divorced than to be married?

Yes, I would agree with this. Especially if someone gets married very young.

 

[diznygirl]

I'm wondering if anyone will chime in to the thread and suggest that divorce is a good thing. So far, everyone (I think) has spoken from the standpoint that marriage should be forever and ever and that divorce only comes about when one or both people in the marriage do something wrong or don't try hard enough. Is anyone willing to suggest that sometimes people do nothing wrong - that some marriages work better as a 10 or 20 year thing than a lifetime thing - that people can change and grow and reach a point when it is better for both of them to be divorced than to be married?

I think that it possible to make a wrong choice of spouse - maybe you feel pressured to get married, maybe you want so bad to have the married life thing, or you settle for someone who is less than ideal cuz you don't think there could be anything better out there. Sometimes it's nice - when you admit you were wrong in the first place - to have a do-over.

Of course, marriage should not be treated this way - it should be thought about carefully and only chosen knowing it's going to be forever. But not everyone has the sense to do that.

 

[auntpolly]

For the record, I'm married 14 years now and can't possibly image ever being anything than married to my wife. But I do know other couples that have grown apart - not due to anything wrong that either did - and divorce was the best option. 15 years after their marriage they had both become different people, people who shouldn't be married to each other.

And I don't have a problem with that. I wonder how hard people try and if they've really given it their all, but in the end, I have no real feeling against divorce.

Really what got me thinking about all this was all the religious people I know that are divorced and I wondered what the thought process is. I mean, it's their personal decision and all, but on the one hand they are saying they take the bible literally and on the other hand they are ignoring one of the really specific things Jesus spoke against.

 

[arielsleepingbeauty]

I am not religious in anyway. I have my own beliefs. I do not let a book rule my life or decide what is best for me and my family. I have a mind of my own, i can think for myself and I trust my heart. As for divorce, we don't always know the whole story of everyone's marriage. I would hope that people would try to do whatever is possible to save a marriage before divorcing. I agree that movie stars just take the easy way out. It is not setting a good example for the younger generation. When i hear the word divorce it makes me think about any children that would be involved. A divorce with children is so much more difficult because it's not just 2 people involved. Marriage isn't easy, but i made the commitment to spend the rest of my life with my husband and i have 2 daughters to think about besides myself. I will not give up so easily on my family! That's not because of a book, it's because i want that for my family.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I'm wondering if anyone will chime in to the thread and suggest that divorce is a good thing. So far, everyone (I think) has spoken from the standpoint that marriage should be forever and ever and that divorce only comes about when one or both people in the marriage do something wrong or don't try hard enough. Is anyone willing to suggest that sometimes people do nothing wrong - that some marriages work better as a 10 or 20 year thing than a lifetime thing - that people can change and grow and reach a point when it is better for both of them to be divorced than to be married?

For the record, I'm married 14 years now and can't possibly image ever being anything than married to my wife. But I do know other couples that have grown apart - not due to anything wrong that either did - and divorce was the best option. 15 years after their marriage they had both become different people, people who shouldn't be married to each other.

While I think that there might be a case where an amicable divorce might be the best option, I do think marriage should be treated as a lifetime committment.

When I get married, I will say in front of my family, friends, God, etc. "till death do us part." I know I would not say those words unless I truly, truly meant them. I wouldn't do it if I meant "till someone better comes along" or "till ten years are up." I do NOT think that all people who say them, truly mean them. I think many times people get married because "its time" and they want kids or such and "this person's ok- I can live with them". A marriage is a bigger committment than buying a house or car or getting a tattoo, and I think some people put more thought into choosing those things than a spouse.

Will a relationship between two good people sometimes not work out? Sure. But, IMO, in most cases if people really thought about it beforehand, the volume of divorces would not be what it is. Would it still happen? Sure. But just not the way it is now.

It really is a combination of not thinking the vows through all the way or taking them seriously enough, and the disposable culture with its lack of loyalty that I mentioned before, I think. Divorce exists as an out for people who really need it, not as a backup in case you don't like being married anymore. It is needed in some cases, but should be the exception rather than the rule. Imagine over 50% of cars (or appliances, or whatever) were returned or exchanged.

This might be a poor analogy, but if you compare it to any purchase you make (obviously we're way past marriage being purchasing women) if you truly put a lot of thought into it, and a lot of energy into the upkeep, you will generally be more satisfied with it and it will last for many, many years. If you are more concerned with buying what you think will impress the neighbors, or what looks cute, or if you don't maintain or spend any time with upkeep, of course it won't last. Yes, sometimes the high quality coffee maker blows up unexpectedly, but that is the exception- not over 50% like the current divorce rate.

 

[newcomer52]

I grew up believing that divorce is morally wrong. (excepting abusive situations) After 24 years of marriage, my husband decided he was unhappy and got a divorce. I didn't want it, but am divorced anyway. The hardest part of this is feeling divorce is wrong, but still being divorced. It is difficult to come to gripes with it even after six years. I am happy in my life, but still feel the sin.

 

[Charade]

By blaming it on homosexuals, or saying "Hey I live in Alabama and Ted and Joe just got married up in MA. Therefore, my marriage is no longer sacred. If gay people can get married, we mind as well just divorce."

It sounds absurd, but so does their argument.

Wow, it took just 3 posts for someone to start this crap. Nice work.

 

[auntpolly]

I grew up believing that divorce is morally wrong. (excepting abusive situations) After 24 years of marriage, my husband decided he was unhappy and got a divorce. I didn't want it, but am divorced anyway. The hardest part of this is feeling divorce is wrong, but still being divorced. It is difficult to come to gripes with it even after six years. I am happy in my life, but still feel the sin.

Wow I didn't start this thread to make anyone feel bad about their divorce. I'm sorry! My MIL is divorced and never wanted it -- my FIL is just the biggest womanizer on the planet and it was totally out of her control. This is one of those things I disagree with the Catholic Church about -- if a husband (or a wife) walks out on a marriage, goes to another woman, I think they have broken a covnenant and the offended wife (or husband) should not be held responsible. My MIL can still take communion only because she has never remarried, but I think she should have been allowed to. I guess if she would have done the annullment thing, but for some people, like my MIL, it just doesn't seem right to pretend the marriage never happened.

Honestly, I'm just talking about those divorces where people couldn't get along and both parties just want out. And I'm not even saying that's wrong. I'm just wondering how out attiudes about divorce how changed.

 

[auntpolly]

When I get married, I will say in front of my family, friends, God, etc. "till death do us part."

and how about: 'Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.' Taken from the Bible; Matthew 19:6. For you guys who want to take things literally in the Bible, this seems pretty clear...

I'm just wondering how so many people are - for a lack of a softer way of putting this - breaking those vows these days. Honestly, I think people should actually take into consideration whether or not they believe them before they say them. It really doesn't matter if you "intend" to keep a vow like that. If you concieve of people not doing it, you should have a civil ceremony.

But if your husband leaves you, like the woman said above, at least you can know that you really didn't break your vows -- he did.

 

[LoraJ]

I don't disagree with anything you've said -- but if you believe that divorce is a sin and that homosexuality is a sin, why not lobby for anti-divorce laws as well? (not "you" personally) Why do Christians let themselves off the hook when it comes to divorce? OK, they acknowledge they sinned, maybe, but living in a second marriage, isn't that living a sinful life, by definition? If Christians are against gay marriage, why aren't they equally outspoken about this?

This is what gets me too. There are some people on these very boards who will fight against gay marraige and how it ruins the sanctity of marriage, yet they themselves are divorced. They only dictate the bible in a way that satisfies their own prejudices, but gives them a free pass.

 

[auntpolly]

This is what gets me too. There are some people on these very boards who will fight against gay marraige and how it ruins the sanctity of marriage, yet they themselves are divorced. They only dictate the bible in a way that satisfies their own prejudices, but gives them a free pass.

Seriously, yes! But I'm not trying to impugn anyone who has done this, only trying to get them to open their eyes a little.

I have a friend who's daughter is getting divorced -- they are from a very conservative church. They spent about 2 hours nervously explaining the divorce and why the daughter just couldn't stay in the marriage anymore. Hey, I had no feelings for them except sadness -- I know it was really hard for them all. But then the wife said: And you know our we don't believe in divorce so this is hard for us. I thought . I wanted to say, gee, too bad you aren't like us because we just love it - take every opportunity to do it. I thought, they've been judging my family and the divorces in my family and now have to realize they are no better! That's what happens when you are up on the pedestal!