Divorce

[auntpolly]

The divorce rate is high - we all know that. Is that a good thing or a bad? Is it better that people are getting out of bad situations more than they used to or are people just not trying hard enough? How do religious people reconcle their faith with their divorce? When a person who takes the bible literally, especially them, how do they justify a divorce?

We have all these movies stars that we just loooooooove, like Angelina and Julia breaking up marriages and yet they are still our darlings -- are they making it more OK for us to have affairs with married people and to divorce?

I ask these questions because I wondered what the current thought was here in our little communtiy -- I AM NOT TALKING TO YOU WHO DIVORCED ABUSIVE SPOUSES!!! I understand your situations completely. I'm talking about just "it didn't work out" divorces.

I apologize in advance for anyone I offend with this question, because I know some will take it the wrong way.

 

[FayeW]

Aunt Polly, I agree with you that people just don't try hard enough these days. I think it has a lot to do with the "instant gratification/entitlement" society we live in. I have been married for 16 years, and there have been at least 2 occasions when we have had the "conversation". Both were after the children came along, which as we all know totally changes the family dynamic, and not always for the better. What I mean is, if you have a spouse who always puts you first (like I did with my husband), and then have a child which of course, HAS to come first ( devoting your time to an infant, etc) it can really upset the applecart. Point is, a marriage is not static. It changes and evolves. It is often a series of peaks and valleys, just like life. You have to be willing to climb back out of the valley.

 

[NewJersey]

How do religious people reconcle their faith with their divorce? When a person who takes the bible literally, especially them, how do they justify a divorce?

By blaming it on homosexuals, or saying "Hey I live in Alabama and Ted and Joe just got married up in MA. Therefore, my marriage is no longer sacred. If gay people can get married, we mind as well just divorce."

It sounds absurd, but so does their argument.

 

[auntpolly]

there have been at least 2 occasions when we have had the "conversation".

Oh, hey, me too! It's not something I like to talk about (or even think about) but in 25 years of marriage, the subject has come up. And there were times that I was so mad that I was mentally packing my bags! I'm glad I didn't do it. Not specifically for religious reasons, but I think down deep I really knew that I didn't want to throw it away, because I love my husband and my family.

I really guess I wonder the most about reconciling divorce with religion. I know what the Catholic Church says about it. What about other faiths?

How does a religious person who thinks for example that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin justify divorce, given the Bible seems to frown on it.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Oh, hey, me too! It's not something I like to talk about (or even think about) but in 25 years of marriage, the subject has come up. And there were times that I was so mad that I was mentally packing my bags! I'm glad I didn't do it. Not specifically for religious reasons, but I think down deep I really knew that I didn't want to throw it away, because I love my husband and my family.

I really guess I wonder the most about reconciling divorce with religion. I know what the Catholic Church says about it. What about other faiths?

How does a religious person who thinks for example that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin justify divorce, given the Bible seems to frown on it.

Judaism allows divorce

 

[minkydog]

Good question. I think too many people just get tired of their spouse, get sidelined by other things, and start looking at the greener grass on the other side. They begin to disconnect. Or they just decide not to try any more. What most of them find out is that it's tremendously hard to divorce and start over. I wonder if they put as much effort into their marriage as they do at getting back into dating, what might have been And trying to blend a step-family??No thanks, I'd rather stick with the problems I have.

We've been married 25yrs and have managed to slog through some rough patches. Truly, the only reason we stayed together at times is because of the commitment we made--I said I would and barring abuse, adultery, or addiction, I will. So will he. We have had a lot of crises with our children and health, enough that a lot of couples would throw in the towel. I'm just not willing to put my kids through it, let alone myself. Come hell or high water, we'll find a way or die trying.

 

[auntpolly]

Judaism allows divorce

Yeah, I know that, and I have no problem with it. But I wonder what your scripture says about this, or have Jews come to this way of thinking in spite of scripture?

 

[VSL]

Good question. I think too many people just get tired of their spouse, get sidelined by other things, and start looking at the greener grass on the other side. They begin to disconnect. Or they just decide not to try any more. What most of them find out is that it's tremendously hard to divorce and start over. I wonder if they put as much effort into their marriage as they do at getting back into dating, what might have been And trying to blend a step-family??No thanks, I'd rather stick with the problems I have.

*not married* but ITA with this.

About the likes of AJ and JR 'breaking up' marriages... I don't think that's how it works. There surely were already problems for one of the partners to get involved with someone else (or at least start spending a lot of time with someone other than their spouse). I imagine that the marriage is already over for the straying/tempted-to-stray partner before the 'other person' came on the scene.

Hmmm... maybe my signature should read:
'Vicky - "why use 10 words when 100 will do?" '

 

[auntpolly]

I said I would and barring abuse, adultery,

I agree -- I think when a person is unfaithful, they break the bond and they have in affect "divorced". It's up to the person that was cheated on to decide whether or not they want to renew the trust and the bond. From what I understand, Jesus allows for this kind of end to a marriage. He saw infidelity as a deal breaker.

I think as weird as the Catholic Church has been about divorce, they are trying to come to some conclusion with it's annullment process, although they have a long way to go before that works.

Otherwise if a couple just "can't get along anymore" and divorce, aren't they living a sin just the same as they accuse gay people of living? (Jesus said virtually nothing about homosexuality but lots about divorce.) Why aren't these people who want anti-gay legislation fighting for anti-divorce legislation as well?

 

[powellrj]

our church allows divorce under certain conditions. If your spouse isn't a christian, adultery, abuse, and one more reason that I can't remember right now.

One of our ministers is divorced, so it even happens in churches. Our church also runs a divorce care group one night a week.

 

[auntpolly]

our church allows divorce under certain conditions. If your spouse isn't a christian, adultery, abuse, and one more reason that I can't remember right now.

.

Are all those reasons scriptural? Specifically, did Jesus say them?

Keeping in mind, I am not trying to argue against divorce on religious grounds, only trying to understand the mentality of a religious person who divorces.

 

[JLTraveling]

Wow, this is a seriously tough topic. I can chime in from two points of view, as I am pagan, which brings one set of beliefs to the table, and my uncle, who split with his wife shortly before my husband and I split, is a Free Methodist with an entirely different belief system.

In some ways, mine was easier. I simply wasn't given a choice. My husband and I went through a series of stressors one right after the other, so things were difficult, but I assumed it was situational and temporary. Apparently my husband had other ideas, because he simply packed up and left in the middle of the night. No conversation, no explanation other than "I really love you and I'm really sorry," written in a note that he left behind. Despite my best efforts, he simply refused to speak to me, and forbid his family and friends from any contact as well. He called me months later and we arranged a time/place for him to bring back the things of mine he stole that night, and he brought divorce papers as well. I was so shocked, stunned, and out of options that I just signed them. Come to find out months after that, from a mutual friend, that he never actually filed the papers. So he's living with his new girlfriend and refusing to file the papers, and I don't want to file because I feel like he should pay for it. So we've been separated for a year and a half, no hope of reconciliation, and it's looking like not much hope for divorce anytime soon. But the point is, all possibilities were taken away from me, and that's simply the way it was. I have no religious issues to consider with it though, as pagan ceremonies are worded: As long as love shall last, rather than Till Death Do Us Part. Obviously there was no love left, at least on his part. Also, we were only married 2 years and had no kids.

My uncle's situation was completely different. His wife left him once before, when he was struggling with lymphoma. They already had two kids and a house, plus as I mentioned above, are Free Methodist. That church does not allow divorce, as a general rule. She eventually came back around (conveniently enough, after the cancer treatment was over and he was able to go back to work). Well, a couple months before my split, she left him again. No explanations really, other than "I don't want to be tied down." He got her to agree to marriage counseling, they fought, they argued, he tried everything. She served him with papers. He stressed to her repeatedly that if she took it that far, then he was going to go through with it this time. She wouldn't get another chance. She insisted and the divorce moved forward. Meanwhile she was calling him to do things for her, constantly. She was helpless without him. He was also paying three times as much child support as he would with a court order, because he wanted to make sure the kids didn't suffer. He consulted constantly with his preacher, who told him he was absolved, because he couldn't do anything about it.
Finally, after a year of fighting their house was sold and the profits split. Thousands upon thousands of dollars had been spent on lawyers. My uncle finally started dating someone new. THEN his wife wanted him back. She started begging him to come back. He consulted with his preacher, his family, everyone. Everyone including the preacher told him not to go back. She's done it twice now, what's to stop her from doing it again. Well, at this point he decided he had had enough. The divorce went through, and he is now happily married to the new woman, who is everything he deserves. And everyone, from the preacher to the church members to his family, strongly believes that he did the right thing.
So the point of all my rambling is this. Yes, divorce is a horrible thing. No, it shouldn't be undertaken lightly. But no matter what your religion, when your partner completely checks out and is unwilling to attempt resolution, what choice do you have? That's a personal question that everyone must answer for him or herself, but it's a reality that happens all too frequently. And IMHO, you cannot know when going into a marriage that something might happen 5, 10, or even 40 years down the road that might make your partner completely flip. Sad but true.

 

[froglady]

our church allows divorce under certain conditions. If your spouse isn't a christian, adultery, abuse, and one more reason that I can't remember right now.

One of our ministers is divorced, so it even happens in churches. Our church also runs a divorce care group one night a week.

Traditionally, my recollection was that a marriage could also be ended if it should not have been a valid (according to the church) marriage in the first palce. This would cover things such as bigamy, incest (if the participants were related....a common way to divorce among European royalty way back when) deceit (lying about age, ability to have children to deceive your spouse, etc,) coercion, and also if you married someone who was/became a heretic. (I guess that falls under not a Christian)

 

[powellrj]

Are all those reasons scriptural? Specifically, did Jesus say them?

Keeping in mind, I am not trying to argue against divorce on religious grounds, only trying to understand the mentality of a religious person who divorces.

I don't express myself well, so I googled the question, and this answer says it better than I can.

http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html

 

[Christine]

I'm not sure that I really believe the party line that "it's just too easy" and/or "people don't try hard enough." I believe that is the case in *some* divorces. I will have to say that in my personal dealings, I have yet to come across anyone who just "gave up" and didn't try. Everyone I knew went through counseling, went through misery, had long, drawn-out separations, etc. None of it was easy and no one just gave up and walked out of a marriage because it seemed better in the other pasture. I'm not arguing that this doesn't happen, but I really just don't think it's the norm. At least not in the circles I run in.

What I do think is that in the last 30 years, each spouse is no longer super-dependent on the other financially. Up until probably the 80s, a woman who was miserable in marriage could not easily leave. Now, the majority of women can leave because they work and they can support themselves. On the flip side, back in the day, if a working man deserted his stay-at-home wife and child I think he had more social repercussions against him. So, in a way it is easier to just end it all. I think it's a good thing because people should never feel that they are trapped because of society (i.e., women not having good enough incomes).

Contrary to what it seems, getting a divorce is really NOT easy at all.

 

[jimmiej]

I don't express myself well, so I googled the question, and this answer says it better than I can.

http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html

Comprehensive and complete. Good link. Thanks!

 

[va32h]

Some people get divorced because the other spouse just up and leaves them.

No matter how religious you are yourself, if you spouse leaves you and files for divorce, you can't force them to stay married to you.

My husband and I have numerous problems, and separated twice. We have both agreed that we really are not compatible at heart, and had it not been for our children, would not be together today.

But we do have children, 3 of them, and so we carry on. We also both agree that splitting up our family would make them miserable, and we are only as happy as they are.

 

[disykat]

How does a religious person who thinks for example that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin justify divorce, given the Bible seems to frown on it.

One could say the same about many things. Sex outside of marriage comes to mind. Actually, the Bible talks about times when divorce is okay - so one could argue that it is less problematic than other "sins" and in fact is not a sin at all in many circumstances. The fact is, sin has existed ever since Eve ate the apple. I don't know anyone that doesn't lie, cheat, get jealous, be gluttonous, use the Lord's name in vain, etc. etc. at some point - and the Bible frowns on all those things as well.

I think the main thing is to try and live your faith to the best of your abilities. Sometimes, for many reasons, we are simply unable to live up to our vows despite our best efforts. My theory is, that if we are trying, God doesn't frown on this any differently than if we tell a lie, etc.

I think society tries to rate sin, not God.

That said, I think that divorce is much less "acceptable" within religious communties than out of them. As less of the population practices a religion, less people consider religion part of the equation in the decision about divorce.

 

[auntpolly]

One could say the same about many things. Sex outside of marriage comes to mind. Actually, the Bible talks about times when divorce is okay - so one could argue that it is less problematic than other "sins" and in fact is not a sin at all in many circumstances. The fact is, sin has existed ever since Eve ate the apple. I don't know anyone that doesn't lie, cheat, get jealous, be gluttonous, use the Lord's name in vain, etc. etc. at some point - and the Bible frowns on all those things as well.

I think the main thing is to try and live your faith to the best of your abilities. Sometimes, for many reasons, we are simply unable to live up to our vows despite our best efforts. My theory is, that if we are trying, God doesn't frown on this any differently than if we tell a lie, etc.

I think society tries to rate sin, not God.

That said, I think that divorce is much less "acceptable" within religious communties than out of them. As less of the population practices a religion, less people consider religion part of the equation in the decision about divorce.

I don't disagree with anything you've said -- but if you believe that divorce is a sin and that homosexuality is a sin, why not lobby for anti-divorce laws as well? (not "you" personally) Why do Christians let themselves off the hook when it comes to divorce? OK, they acknowledge they sinned, maybe, but living in a second marriage, isn't that living a sinful life, by definition? If Christians are against gay marriage, why aren't they equally outspoken about this?

 

[disneysteve]

I think there are many reasons for the high divorce rate.

1. Couples dont try hard enough. I think this is a symptom of our instant-gratification culture. As soon as something doesn't go their way, they're out of there. July 12th I'll be married 14 years and I can tell you not everything has gone my way. I've lost plenty of debates and compromised on lots of things, but not once did I think about throwing in the towel and leaving.

2. Being a regular on the Budget Board, I know that financial difficulties put a tremendous strain on a relationship. If you watched the Oprah Debt Diet series, you saw how the financial problems were tearing apart the marriages of the couples featured. Money is usually cited as the #1 reason couples seperate.

3. And I think this is the most important reason: People jump into marriage far too quickly without thinking it through. I personally know several couples who, before the wedding, my friends and I all said to each other that there was no way in hell the relationship would last. The two people were just totally incompatible. Every single one of those marriages ended within 2 years. Everyone could see it but the two people involved. It might be fun to have a little fling with someone very different than you, but eventually, the lack of common interests goes from exciting and adventurous to a constant source of friction and argument.